Is the Annie Leibovitz Photo of Miley Cyrus Immoral?

[Alceste]

I am suggesting that they should not use the sexualization of 15 year old girls in order to increase sales.

Do you mean especially in this case, or in all the millions of daily occurences of marketers using sexy teenagers to sell their products? Sexy teens are the backbone of the advertising and fashion industries. I'm not saying this leaves me feeling all warm and fuzzy as a well-padded 33-year-old woman who is going grey . I just don't see why this ONE teenager is getting singled out. it seems unfair to blame our own cultural depravity on one photograph of one teenage girl - particularly one that most people don't seem to be seeing as particularly sexually charged.

Does anyone think she would ever have regretted doing this if it weren't for the hysteria and controversy a minority responded with? If people had instead been fair and compassionate, even if they disapprove of "this sort of thing", and if people admitted nothing stands out about her actions in the culture of glossy magazines, it's possible she would not be feeling guilty or conflicted about allowing her back to be viewed by the public (for thousands of dollars.)

 

[lilithu]

Do you mean especially in this case, or in all the millions of daily occurences of marketers using sexy teenagers to sell their products?

The latter, of course. The fact that it happens all the time does NOT make it ok, imo. This particular case is merely an opportunity to address the issue.

I posted a link to a report from the APA earlier. That's what's at stake.

 

[Nierbi]

We have a bit of a similar case here in Australia where two 16 year old models were portrayed in a sexual fashion, apparently referencing Johnny Depp and Kate Moss during their relationship. The magazine it was shot for is getting in a reasonable amount of trouble for suggesting a sexual situation with minors. Their excuse for it was that it was 'art'.

If Miley was 18, it wouldn't be an issue. I don't think it is a good thing for a 15 year old to be portrayed in such a sense, and sensual or not, expressing her sexuality or not, that is a minor who is being photographed with the suggestion of nudity. She might have more experience with the world than a regular 15 year old, but she's still got a fair bit of growing up to do. That being said, the shot is very tasteful, and certainly would fall under the category of art. I wouldn't necessarily consider it 'immoral', but I would consider it unwise, and possibly unlawful. [I don't know the US laws regarding this issue though.]

 

[Starfish]

From what I heard, money had nothing to do with this photo. Miley is already making many millions of dollars a month and this photo shoot represents a tiny fraction of that, relatively. The reason she stayed past the regular photo shoot to do this particular photo was because the photographer was Annie Libovitz. Also, Miley's parents had left the shoot, as it was over. It was Miley who decided to stay and make this particular photo with Annie.

It was not done for the money. It was not done with her parents watching. It was done because Annie is a very famous photographer, and because Miley felt it was a rare and special opportunity to be photographed by such a famous photographer. Obviously, neither of them felt it was in any way pornographic at the time they made it. Only later, did Miley come to feel that it was not appropriate because she realized that she's a role model for other, younger girls.

I agree. Apparently her grandmother remained behind with Miley and was there when the photo was taken. As I said earlier, 15 yr. olds are not mature enough to understand the ramifications. It's the responsibility of adults to protect the young. This is why sex with a minor, though it be consensual, is illegal. She was not properly protected from her poor decision. And the photographer has no excuse for pressuring her to do it.

 

[Alceste]

The latter, of course. The fact that it happens all the time does NOT make it ok, imo. This particular case is merely an opportunity to address the issue.

I posted a link to a report from the APA earlier. That's what's at stake.

In that case I agree with you. I think the beauty myth is devastating, especially for pubescent girls.

What I disagree with is singling out one person for exaggerated criticism when all of us are at fault. (Let he who is without sin, etc). It smacks of puritanism - like putting one girl in a stockade to be ridiculed and tormented by the whole village in order to promote shame about their sexuality in all the others. If she's feeling bad about the photo, it's not because of Vanity Fair or her bad parents or Anne Leibowitz taking advantage of her; it's because of us, the chattering classes, who seem unable to express our frustration with our shallow culture without making her into the unwitting spokesperson for our peevishness.

 

[lilithu]

In that case I agree with you. I think the beauty myth is devastating, especially for pubescent girls.

What I disagree with is singling out one person for exaggerated criticism when all of us are at fault. (Let he who is without sin, etc). It smacks of puritanism - like putting one girl in a stockade to be ridiculed and tormented by the whole village in order to promote shame about their sexuality in all the others. If she's feeling bad about the photo, it's not because of Vanity Fair or her bad parents or Anne Leibowitz taking advantage of her; it's because of us, the chattering classes, who seem unable to express our frustration with our shallow culture without making her into the unwitting spokesperson for our peevishness.

I don't recall anyone singling Miley out here for shame or ridicule. My position has consistently been that she's being used by others. People including myself have criticized her parents, Vanity Fair, and Leibovitz. None of these parties had Miley's best interests in mind, imo. I certainly don't think that Leibovitz intentionally and consciously took advantage of Miley, but I still think she should have been more mindful. I don't think that Vanity Fair is worse than other magazines in this regard, but I think they too should have been more mindful. I'm not trying to single any of these people out as the epitome of all evil. I *am* trying to use this as an opportunity to speak to the problem of the sexualization of our youth - something that is now so deeply ingrained in us that we see nothing wrong with these constant images.

Note: sexualization of teen girls does not mean teens expressing their sexuality. I certainly have no objection to that. Sexualization specifically means other people taking advantage of the sexuality of teen girls for their own purposes. My objection has never been a puritanical objection to sex. I'm a UU fer gawd's sake. We teach (age appropriate) sex ed in our churches because much of society is too skittish to let it be taught in schools.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

As I said earlier, 15 yr. olds are not mature enough to understand the ramifications.

I tend to think there are a lot of young ones under 18 who are really mature. Some more mature than adults. In the US we say at 18 you can buy cigarettes and join the military...go into battle...shoot to kill in the name of patriotism but you can't have a beer until you're 21...because they don't feel as though you are mature enough to handle such responsibilities.

It's the responsibility of adults to protect the young.

I agree...

this is why sex with a minor, though it be consensual, is illegal.

It all depends on what you mean by minor. Some states in the US say consensual sex is at 14, 16, 17 and 18

She was not properly protected from her poor decision.

Is there any credible evidence to support this?

And the photographer has no excuse for pressuring her to do it.

Again, is there any credible evidence to suggest he pressured her into taking the photo......?


Here's what one news media reported.....
Miley Cyrus apologizes for Vanity Fair photo spread -- -- chicagotribune.com

But I have to say this once more.....If she was on the beach in a two piece we wouldn't pay it no attention....because the two piece would be more revealing than this photo.....

 

[Alceste]

I don't recall anyone singling Miley out here for shame or ridicule.

Then what is this thread about? And what are all these headlines about?

There has been no shortage of people chiming in on this thread with criticism of the entire Cyrus family for their actions, and only a small handful of people acknowledging that in the context of the pervasive exploitation of youthful sexiness in the West, this photo is not in the least bit unusual. Whatever Cyrus is guilty of, EVERY model is guilty of. Likewise every woman who has ever bought one of those pointless magazines; every photographer who ever put food on the table by taking photos of semi-clad, anorexic, underage girls; everyone who has ever bought a particular brand of beer after having been influenced by an ad full of sexy teen innuendo...

There's nearly no discussion of Naomi Wolf's life work outside academic circles, but no end to the discussion of one afternoon of work for Miley Cyrus? I find that disappointing. Every woman who ever covered up a strand of grey or bought "anti-wrinkle cream" is as guilty as the Cyrus family for promoting a culture that idealizes very young women.

 

[PureX]

I agree. Apparently her grandmother remained behind with Miley and was there when the photo was taken. As I said earlier, 15 yr. olds are not mature enough to understand the ramifications. It's the responsibility of adults to protect the young. This is why sex with a minor, though it be consensual, is illegal. She was not properly protected from her poor decision. And the photographer has no excuse for pressuring her to do it.

But there is a difference, here. Annie Libovitz is a very famous photographer. She is famous for photographing other famous people. And she tends to have a somewhat 'shocking' style in that she tends to try and capture that aspect of her subjects that the public doesn't see.

If I had been Miley's guardian I'm not sure I would have done anything different. The opportunity to be photographed by Annie Libovits is really special, and I would have wanted Miley to have that gift. And I don't think there is anything dirty or wrong with the photo itself. The only error, I believe, was in forgetting that Miley is a role-model for many other young girls and so such a photo should have been kept private so that it wouldn't wrongly influence them.

 

[PureX]

To put this in context, here are some other Liebovitz photos:

Moderator cut: image removed
Jerry Hall and Gabriel Jagger
Model and her son
New York City

Missy Giove
Mountain biker
Durango, Colorado

Moderator cut: image removed

Gwyneth Paltrow and Blythe Danner
Actresses
Vancouver, British Columbia

Moderator cut: image removed

Victim of domestic violence
YWCA Women's Shelter
Bridgeport, Connecticut

Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sandra Day O'Connor
Supreme Court justices
Lawyer's Lounge, Supreme Court Building, Washington, D.C.

Martina Navratilova
Tennis player
Dallas, Texas

Ann Richards
Former governor of Texas
Honey Grove, Texas

Susan Sontag
Writer
New York City

 

[PureX]

She even was asked to photograph the Queen.

I would be honored to have Annie Leibovitz photograph my daughter.

 

[PureX]

Here are some more amazing photos of hers on display at the Andrew Smith Gallery in New York ...

 

[Alceste]

Thanks for the mini-gallery, PureX. I'm deeply offended all those old ladies didn't bare their naked backs! I want a beauty ideal that is easier to emulate!

 

[Valjean]

Our society is way too sexualized. Nudity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with sex.


We're a bunch of perverts!

 

[lilithu]

Then what is this thread about? And what are all these headlines about?

This thread was started by Sunstone, who clearly thinks that there is nothing wrong with the pic. As for the headlines in your link, I still didn't see any that denounced her. (The most oft repeated headline was "Miley goes blonde.") Maybe some people did denounce a 15 year old girl for going along with what she sees in mainstream culture; some people are crazy. I still don't recall anyone in this thread denouncing her. If someone did, I disagree with them.

 

[lilithu]

To put this in context, here are some other Liebovitz photos:

Yes, she's clearly a gifted photographer. You're missing my favorite photos by here. John Lennon naked in a foetal position wrapped around a fully-clothed Yoko One who is staring directly at the camera, Whoopi Goldberg, her dark face, arms, and legs sticking out of a white tub full of milk, and Chris Rock in white-face. Leibovitz's greatest gift is that she draws out of her subject some core essence of them OR what we project onto them. She is a social commentator.

I would be honored to have Annie Leibovitz photograph my daughter.

To be sold in a magazine?

 

[PureX]

...To be sold in a magazine?

That depends on how it turns out. The photo that resulted in this case is perfectly acceptable for publication, exzcept that Miley Cyrus is a role model for a lot of young girls who would likely not understand the intent of the photo at all. So I would not have allowed it to be published were I her guardian. I would have allowed the photo to be made, however, and certainly would have paid Annie Leibovits for it so that Miley and family could keep it privately.

 

[lilithu]

I would have allowed the photo to be made, however, and certainly would have paid Annie Leibovits for it so that Miley and family could keep it privately.

And I would have had no problem with that.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If we saw Miley out at a social function with a dress on where the back was out....would there be the same outcry?

Again, if she was on the beach wearing a two piece.....would be the same outcry?...Heck...!...If she was wedaring a one piece....showing all her curves and maybe clevage....would there be the same outcry?

 

[McBell]

If we saw Miley out at a social function with a dress on where the back was out....would there be the same outcry?

Again, if she was on the beach wearing a two piece.....would be the same outcry?...Heck...!...If she was wedaring a one piece....showing all her curves and maybe clevage....would there be the same outcry?

Nope.
And if she was in Europe at a topless or nude beach wearing absolutely nothing...