• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is the Bible a historical document?

outhouse

Atheistically
while david "may" have existed

what was written about him is pretty much mythology with ZERO historicity.



The Bible doesn't say the Earth is 6 thousand years old.


It does however imply that.



OP is correct in that the bible is not a reliable history book, as much, is only theology and never intended for history of any kind told through mythology.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
On a positive note, this discussion motivated me to pull out my copy of Athas. I purchased the book when it first came out and was, quite frankly, primarily interested in its epigraphical and paleographical analysis (chapters 3 & 4) at that time. Having just reread his eighth chapter on "Historical Commentary" it's rather nice to see how well it's stood up over these many years. That chapter alone is worth the price of the book.
 
Last edited:

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
while david "may" have existed

what was written about him is pretty much mythology with ZERO historicity.
You overreach. It is simply foolish to make such a factual claim about David or any other central figure in folk history, and capitalizing the word lends neither the claim nor the claimant greater credibility.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
You overreach. It is simply foolish to make such a factual claim about David or any other central figure in folk history, and capitalizing the word lends neither the claim nor the claimant greater credibility.


while you are right about the caps, it was not my intention.

claiming davids legend is strickly mythology with no historicity is as correct as itgets according to all modern scholarships.

what was written was written for to long after the actual events to carry any historicity what so ever. We also know it was written as later theology then any sort of historical record.

very little of the legend carries any, if anything from 1000 BC, if im mistaken, please correct me
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
claiming davids legend is strickly mythology with no historicity is as correct as it gets according to all modern scholarships.
Please feel free to reference that modern scholarship. I do my best to keep abreast of it and know of no one who would speak in such absolutes. Most formal and highly politicized folk histories are rife with exaggeration, false etiology, and fabrication. But such lore owes its acceptance and staying power to the fact that these emendations are effectively woven around the memories of the memories of a people. Using the books of Samuel and Kings to inform history and archaeology requires exceptional caution, but rejecting Samuel and Kings as 100 % myth is not modern scholarship but extreme denial.

outhouse, you should really consider stepping away from your search engine and taking the time to read the scholarship that you too frequently misrepresent.
 

otokage007

Well-Known Member
I would completely keep David and his "story" out of an History class. Unless it is specified that it is considered no more than a legend. There's no conclusive evidence that this is more than a myth, although some people believe it may be a real story. And very very little people if any, believe it IS for real, and they do it based on faith alone.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I would completely keep David and his "story" out of an History class.
What you would do is, of course, entirely up to you. But to denigrate those who acknowledge Tel Dan as a reference to the House of David as a covey of unprofessional Christians and Jews is outrageous and outrageously ignorant.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
otokage007, outhouse:
Let me ask you a quick question. I trust you to give honest answers.

What books on Syro-Palestinian archaeology and/or Israelite ethnogenesis do you own and have read?​
Thanks.
 

otokage007

Well-Known Member
What you would do is, of course, entirely up to you. But to denigrate those who acknowledge Tel Dan as a reference to the House of David as a covey of unprofessional Christians and Jews is outrageous and outrageously ignorant.

I would rather define myself as a realist than an ignorant. And your logic doesn't apply, because archeologists and historians that state unequivocally that in Tel Dan undoubtedly puts "House of David", don't exist. But yes, if there's any, he/she would be unprofessional and I suspect that also a christian or a jew, eager to support the myths of the Bible with evidence, or rather, pieces of evidence.

otokage007, outhouse:
Let me ask you a quick question. I trust you to give honest answers.

What books on Syro-Palestinian archaeology and/or Israelite ethnogenesis do you own and have read?​
Thanks.

There's no need to read a book in order to discuss a topic. You just need to be informed. And I am informed.

You proved with a single question your total lack of class and your overwhelming ignorance. :shrug:
 

RedJamaX

Active Member
There's no need to read a book in order to discuss a topic. You just need to be informed. And I am informed.


Agreed, Books are also biased. Just because it's "published" doesn't mean it's true.

Published = Publishers decided they could make money on it. :yes:
 

outhouse

Atheistically
otokage007, outhouse:
Let me ask you a quick question. I trust you to give honest answers.

What books on Syro-Palestinian archaeology and/or Israelite ethnogenesis do you own and have read?
Thanks.

Some Finlkestien, quite a bit of Dever, and one other
 
Last edited:

outhouse

Atheistically
Please feel free to reference that modern scholarship. I do my best to keep abreast of it and know of no one who would speak in such absolutes. Most formal and highly politicized folk histories are rife with exaggeration, false etiology, and fabrication. But such lore owes its acceptance and staying power to the fact that these emendations are effectively woven around the memories of the memories of a people. Using the books of Samuel and Kings to inform history and archaeology requires exceptional caution, but rejecting Samuel and Kings as 100 % myth is not modern scholarship but extreme denial.

outhouse, you should really consider stepping away from your search engine and taking the time to read the scholarship that you too frequently misrepresent.

jay I thank you for trying to help my education.


I do have a limited knowledge of how different mythology has different amounts of historicity, and I do understand oral tradition, and last year, you pointed out to me and I followed through and learned about the pieces and how the early collections were compiled over centuries and redacted along teh way.


Using the books of Samuel and Kings to inform history and archaeology requires exceptional caution, but rejecting Samuel and Kings as 100 % myth is not modern scholarship but extreme denial

Jay, I do know better then to throw it all out. I understand the different amounts of historicty that apply.

Soloman for example may have been the king who had a copper smelting factory set up. I dont really deny david existed, I understand its not fiction.

And I also understand the minimalist and maximalist and know which side I have found myself in through study


i do understand the context these later books were written under, and how it applies to that generation of theology.

And I still have more to learn, and im sure you can point me in the right direction.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Agreed, Books are also biased. Just because it's "published" doesn't mean it's true.

Published = Publishers decided they could make money on it. :yes:

while that may be correct.


when one has read enough material, one can then add to his knowledge by accepting and being able to discuss the biases and what terms led that particular author to come to his conclusions, and then intelligently discuss why your views are different.

A arguement from ignorance doesnt work with history
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
You know, as a former Christian, I used to believe that at the very least... that must be true. But my research lately says that there is no real evidence to support that either...

Your current research is off the mark then. I would suggest reading Ehrman's new book that deals with this subject about the historicity of Jesus.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Agreed, Books are also biased. Just because it's "published" doesn't mean it's true.

Published = Publishers decided they could make money on it. :yes:
Books may be biased, but generally, if you actually search for actual scholarship on a subject, it is better than the garbage posted all over the internet.

At least in book form, from reputable dealers, you generally get more professionals. On the internet, you get anyone who has a little bit of time to spout of whatever nonsense they may want.
 

RedJamaX

Active Member
Books may be biased, but generally, if you actually search for actual scholarship on a subject, it is better than the garbage posted all over the internet.

At least in book form, from reputable dealers, you generally get more professionals. On the internet, you get anyone who has a little bit of time to spout of whatever nonsense they may want.

I can agree with that
 
Top