Is the Bible too Contradictory for All of it to be True?

[Hawkins]

I've read better, and there are older tales than what comes from the bible.

Since when you have witnesses dying for a tale?

I can read documents that can be shown to be even older. Now what?

Which one book with more 100 pages that you can show the ancient scrolls for a comparison?

Comparing apples with oranges is what you can do?

 

[atpollard]

This can also be seen as taking away the cultures, traditions and beliefs of others, and replacing them with your own. You may see that as a "gift" -- I see it as repulsive. And there are horror stories enough from around the world of the suffering caused by such missionary work.

I prefer the ideas proffered by the Star Trek series of non-interference -- because who the hell are you to suppose you're beliefs are better than anybody else's?

I once met a man who was from one of the tribes in the Amazon and returned to the United States with a man named Fred Blind, a contractor who left his business to become a Missionary after converting to Christianity. The man from the Amazon (whose name I can neither spell nor pronounce) said that the best part of becoming a Christian was not living in fear. Before Fred arrived, they lived in fear that they would offend some spirit and they, or one of their children would suddenly grow sick and die.

What you call non-interference, he would describe as trapped in the constant fear of animism.
You would advocate leaving him in that state to protect his "cultures, traditions and beliefs"?
How "kind" of you (now it is my turn to be repulsed).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I already ate Joe.

I already ate, Joe.

Just a simple alteration of grammar. Has no significance whatsoever. Sure, Joe would mind the difference, but who cares about Joe?




If a king says he won a battle with a few hundred and the grace of God, and there were thousands of soldiers instead ... actually, I think that makes a difference.

Of course, I take all the military stuff in the bible with a grain of salt.

How? Sleeping around was hardly a problem for men in that culture.

"I banged 1000 chicks last night, Dad."
"Awesome, son!"


LOL, yes, his other "legit" kids were SO much better.


I tend to believe that's more because Christianity will tell itself anything to avoid unpleasantries. The Religion of Truth will bend over backwards to lie when it suits it.


Why does God only seem to have minimal narrative skills and no scientific or historical information beyond that which the human authors describe?


The Holy Spirit is off duty? Why trust humans with a badly written sales brochure when I can have the Expert tell me Himself?


Because omniscience is a character trait that appeared later on in God's "backstory" and all the prophecies you read about can only be traced to AFTER the events they mention.


Ah, a hack kid's author given the authority of gospel. I can do that too:

I told the others, they didn’t believe me. You’re all doomed. You’re all doomed. -- Friday the 13th

"What we've got here is failure to communicate." -- Cool Hand Luke

"If you build it, he will come." -- Field of Dreams

Kermit's Conscience: Still, whether you promised them something or not, you gotta remember - they wanted to come.

Kermit: But... that's because they believed in me.

Kermit's Conscience: No, they believed in the dream.

Kermit: Well, so do I, but...

Kermit's Conscience: You do?

Kermit: Yeah! Of course I do.

Kermit's Conscience: Well then?

Kermit: Well then... I guess I was wrong when I said I never promised anyone. I promised me. -- The Muppet Movie


I've read better, and there are older tales than what comes from the bible.


I can read documents that can be shown to be even older. Now what?

I dont understand where youre getting at. If its the jesus god convo (got to reread later) prepositions are very important in English.

Jesus is the father

Jesus is of the father

Jesus came from the father

Jesus was sent from the father

Jesus is the mirror -of- the father

Jesus -and- the father are one (not jesus is the father and that makes them one. Differientation that there are two separate people with one divine nature. That is why jesus (and moses etc) can do what the father does.

Did you know i am of the father

Its a big difference between being something ans being of something

I am daughter of my mother

I am my mother

I am the daughter and have the same blood as my mother so I am of her and we are one (not as people but as nature)

I am of my ancestors and part of them

In my view I am my ancestors but in christianity scripture does not teach jesus is, his father teaches jesus of and jesus from

Its so simple that i wonder if you guys make it complicated to make it or keep the mystery of god. I find that odd but then again thatz not my faith just I I agree with JW and other non trinitarian views.

Dont know what else to say. If this is the wrong thread Id have to check. Im talking in three thread at once

 

[savagewind]

How? Sleeping around was hardly a problem for men in that culture.
"I banged 1000 chicks last night, Dad."
"Awesome, son!"
LOL, yes, his other "legit" kids were SO much better.

It was by murder that David became his father.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I once met a man who was from one of the tribes in the Amazon and returned to the United States with a man named Fred Blind, a contractor who left his business to become a Missionary after converting to Christianity. The man from the Amazon (whose name I can neither spell nor pronounce) said that the best part of becoming a Christian was not living in fear. Before Fred arrived, they lived in fear that they would offend some spirit and they, or one of their children would suddenly grow sick and die.

What you call non-interference, he would describe as trapped in the constant fear of animism.
You would advocate leaving him in that state to protect his "cultures, traditions and beliefs"?
How "kind" of you (now it is my turn to be repulsed).

Oh, please!

Does not Christianity replace that very temporal, only-while-I-live fear with the threat of eternal torment in Hell for the most minor of thought offences (doubting)? And believe me, on this I stand on firm ground -- the amount of agonizing, hand-wringing plaints of "I'm an unworthy sinner" gives behavioural proof that this doubt is ever-present. Too many Christians really do live in a fear that they are too terrified to even consciously acknowledge, though their behaviours give them away completely.

And I suggest to you that you might look up what Christian missionaries have done in India (particularly Goa, killing children in front of parents to "encourage" conversion), in Africa, in Samoa and Tahiti and throughout the South Pacific, in New Guinea, and don't forget the Hill People of Akha (Burma). Baptist Missionary Paul Lewis sterilized more than 20,000 of them in a very religiously sincere effort to turn them Christian!

Look 'em up!

 

[atpollard]

Oh, please!

Does not Christianity replace that very temporal, only-while-I-live fear with the threat of eternal torment in Hell for the most minor of thought offences (doubting)? And believe me, on this I stand on firm ground -- the amount of agonizing, hand-wringing plaints of "I'm an unworthy sinner" gives behavioural proof that this doubt is ever-present. Too many Christians really do live in a fear that they are too terrified to even consciously acknowledge, though their behaviours give them away completely.

And I suggest to you that you might look up what Christian missionaries have done in India (particularly Goa, killing children in front of parents to "encourage" conversion), in Africa, in Samoa and Tahiti and throughout the South Pacific, in New Guinea, and don't forget the Hill People of Akha (Burma). Baptist Missionary Paul Lewis sterilized more than 20,000 of them in a very religiously sincere effort to turn them Christian!

Look 'em up!

I did.
Including Paul Lewis' response and the counterclaims by anonymous individuals. It is actually not a particularly strong case. The time period when it was released was during the control of a Military Junta that refused to yield power in what is arguably one of the poorest and most corrupt nations on the earth. A bag of rice will buy a child soldier, so how much can a 'witness' cost.

Setting aside both Lewis and the anonymous accounts, the facts on the former Burma are they had, have and will probably continue to have one of the lowest reproduction rates of any developing nation. This is not attributed to the terrorism of Baptist Missionaries, but the 1)late marriage age due to extreme poverty, 2) high number of voluntary abortions and 3) Budhist majority culture creating an acceptance of celibacy as a path to spiritual purity. These facts, unrelated to any human account, make the Lewis account that the sterilization was desirable far more likely that the counterclaim that in a nation of women who don't want babies, the Baptists found 20,000 who did to trick into sterilization.

You might want to dig a little deeper and show some healthy skepticism towards those opposed to Christianity as well as those supporting it. Burma does not pass the smell test.


Fortunately the Cultural Revolution came to Russia and China to eradicate the evil influence of Christianity.
How many people did those non-Christian efforts kill?
(You might want to look it up.).

[Hint: 30 million deaths by Mao; 7 million by Stalin]
God bless atheists for rescuing us from missionaries!

 

[omega2xx]

I believe we've left him speechless.


.

Think again. Nothing you say will leave me speechless.

In science we have been reading only the notes to a poem, in Christianity we find the poem itself. C;S. Lewis

 

[omega2xx]

This can also be seen as taking away the cultures, traditions and beliefs of others, and replacing them with your own. You may see that as a "gift" -- I see it as repulsive. And there are horror stories enough from around the world of the suffering caused by such missionary work.

It is better to be led into the truth about God, than to stay in a cult that does not understand what the true God is like. If some missionaries caused suffering, they were not following what Jesus clearly taught.

I prefer the ideas proffered by the Star Trek series of non-interference -- because who the hell are you to suppose you're beliefs are better than anybody else's?

If your view is true, what I believe is irrelevant. If what I believe is true, what you believe is critical.

Who are you to tell me I can't tell others my beliefs are better? It seems to me you are telling me your beliefs are better than mine.


In science we have been reading only the notes to a poem, in Christianity we find the poem itself. C;S. Lewis[

 

[omega2xx]

I already ate Joe.

I already ate, Joe.

Just a simple alteration of grammar. Has no significance whatsoever. Sure, Joe would mind the difference, but who cares about Joe?




If a king says he won a battle with a few hundred and the grace of God, and there were thousands of soldiers instead ... actually, I think that makes a difference.

Of course, I take all the military stuff in the bible with a grain of salt.

How? Sleeping around was hardly a problem for men in that culture.

"I banged 1000 chicks last night, Dad."
"Awesome, son!"


LOL, yes, his other "legit" kids were SO much better.






Why does God only seem to have minimal narrative skills and no scientific or historical information beyond that which the human authors describe?

It only seems that way to those who can't understand what He is saying.

The Holy Spirit is off duty? Why trust humans with a badly written sales brochure when I can have the Expert tell me Himself?

What has He told you and how do you know it was the Expert?

Because omniscience is a character trait that appeared later on in God's "backstory" and all the prophecies you read about can only be traced to AFTER the events they mention.

It only seems that way to those who can't understand Gd's word. All prophecy is traced back to after the prophecy. Otherwise it is not prophecy.

Ah, a hack kid's author given the authority of gospel. I can do that too:

I told the others, they didn’t believe me. You’re all doomed. You’re all doomed. -- Friday the 13th

"What we've got here is failure to communicate." -- Cool Hand Luke

"If you build it, he will come." -- Field of Dreams

Kermit's Conscience: Still, whether you promised them something or not, you gotta remember - they wanted to come.

Kermit: But... that's because they believed in me.

Kermit's Conscience: No, they believed in the dream.

Kermit: Well, so do I, but...

Kermit's Conscience: You do?

Kermit: Yeah! Of course I do.

Kermit's Conscience: Well then?

Kermit: Well then... I guess I was wrong when I said I never promised anyone. I promised me. -- The Muppet Movie

Brilliant. That endless dialog really convinced me.

]I've read better, and there are older tales than what comes from the bible.

I can read documents that can be shown to be even older. Now what?

name them and tell me how you know they are older.

 

[savagewind]

What has He told you and how do you know it was the Expert?

Oh, the irony!

 

[savagewind]

It is difficult to be patient with the people who espouse the Bible above everything else when IN IT says that Jesus Christ will visit people. I can't believe that they think when Jesus visits people he won't say anything but "please let me in".

Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

 

[savagewind]

Haha is God's new name "Expert"?

 

[Muffled]

Is the Bible too contradictory for all of it to be true? I've heard that said about the Bible, but I don't know enough about it. What do you think?

I don't believe there are any valid contradictions and there are few and unimportant ones that are considered by some as such. God knows what He is doing.

 

[Muffled]

I have not heard it said about the Bible that some contradictions make the whole thing false.
I have heard many, many, many people say that some truth in it makes the whole thing true.

I believe the Bible contains all kinds of things but what I believe is that it is what God wishes us to know,

 

[Muffled]

If there is only one real contradiction in the Bible it can't all be true.

It depends on how you use the word true. If one uses it to mean valid then even the falsehoods are valid falsehoods. So when the serpent lies to Eve it was a valid lie but it wasn't the truth.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Since when you have witnesses dying for a tale?

Since the bible.

(come on, you walked into that one, LOL)

Which one book with more 100 pages that you can show the ancient scrolls for a comparison?

Didn't realize book length determined proof. Or age. Or popularity. Is there a basis on which you judge Truth that does NOT contain some horrible logical fallacy?

I once met a man who was from one of the tribes in the Amazon and returned to the United States with a man named Fred Blind, a contractor who left his business to become a Missionary after converting to Christianity. The man from the Amazon (whose name I can neither spell nor pronounce) said that the best part of becoming a Christian was not living in fear. Before Fred arrived, they lived in fear that they would offend some spirit and they, or one of their children would suddenly grow sick and die.

There are missionaries that skip the hell speeches?

I dont understand where youre getting at.

I am saying I tire of people who say grammar and spelling aren't important when even the addition or subtraction of a single punctuation mark can radically change the meaning.

It only seems that way to those who can't understand what He is saying.

Again, people who say grammar and spelling don't matter should go and pay penance to their language arts teachers.

What has He told you and how do you know it was the Expert?

He's told me lots of things. What evidence do you have the crappy brochure is written by the Expert?

I mean, if I look up movie trailers on youtube, are you telling me you can't spot the difference between official trailers and fan-made ones? Even the best fan-made trailers are still spottable with some work.

The bible is a fan-made trailer of the Movie you are supposed to be living, not just watching or reading.

It only seems that way to those who can't understand Gd's word. All prophecy is traced back to after the prophecy. Otherwise it is not prophecy.

I understand God. What drives me nuts is bad logic.

If a prophet said that I would eat Doritos tomorrow, I don't want to read a note from you tomorrow after I ate some Doritos. I need a text or something that SHOWS without a doubt it was made BEFORE the event in question.

Brilliant. That endless dialog really convinced me.

Stupid quotes from a cliche kid's author don't convince me either.

name them and tell me how you know they are older.

The bible, through textual clues, can be traced, at best, to the Israeli judge period or monarchy period. Maybe a few passages here and there predate that, but not by much. The Internet tells me that it was roughly 1050-950 BCE (the monarchy, not the bible).

From
[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_text[/url']

The oldest known religious text is the

Kesh Temple Hymn of Ancient Sumer, the oldest version of which dates to around 2600 BCE.[1] The earliest form of the Phoenician alphabetfound to date is the inscription on the sarcophagus of King Ahiram of Byblos (The Sumerian Temple Hymns) circa 1000 BCE.[2] The Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumer, with origins as early as 2150-2000 BCE,[3]:41–42 is also one of the earliest literary works that includes various mythological figures.[3]:41–42 The Rigveda of Hinduism is proposed to have been composed over several centuries between 1700–1100 BCE[4] making it probably the world's oldest religious text still in use. Oberlies gives an estimate of 1100 BC for the youngest hymns in book 10. The oldest portions of the Zoroastrian Avesta are believed to have been transmitted orally for centuries before they found written form, and although widely differing dates for Gathic Avestan have been proposed, scholarly consensus floats at around 1000 - 600 BCE.[5][6]

[/url]

 

[omega2xx]

Since the bible.

(come on, you walked into that one, LOL)


Didn't realize book length determined proof. Or age. Or popularity.

Who has made such a claim? Certainly not me.

Is there a basis on which you judge Truth that does NOT contain some horrible logical fallacy?

Is There a basis for you judging the Bible contains some horrible logical fallacy? What qualifies you to be the final judge of what is logical? How can what is logical be a fallacy?

There are missionaries that skip the hell speeches?

Then they are taking away for God's word, which prohibited.

I am saying I tire of people who say grammar and spelling aren't important when even the addition or subtraction of a single punctuation mark can radically change the meaning.

Why are you telling me that?


Again, people who say grammar and spelling don't matter should go and pay penance to their language arts teachers.

He's told me lots of things

.

How did you determine it was God who told you? The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick, who can understand it---Jer 17:9

What evidence do you have the crappy brochure is written by the Expert?

Through study and prayer then more study and more prayer. What evidence do you have that the Bible is a crappy brochure not written by God?

I mean, if I look up movie trailers on youtube, are you telling me you can't spot the difference between official trailers and fan-made ones? Even the best fan-made trailers are still spottable with some work

I don' took for spiritual truth on youtube.

The bible is a fan-made trailer of the Movie you are supposed to be living, not just watching or reading.

What makes you thin Christisn are not doing what Christianity teaches?

I understand God. What drives me nuts is bad logic.

If you think the Bible is a crappy brochure, you don't understand God at all. What drive me nuts is someone thinking they are the final authority on what is logical.

If a prophet said that I would eat Doritos tomorrow, I don't want to read a note from you tomorrow after I ate some Doritos. I need a text or something that SHOWS without a doubt it was made BEFORE the event in question.

Psa 22:18 - ...they divide my garments among them and for my clothing they cast lots---1000 years later---When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took His garments and divided them into 4 parts, one for each soldier, also His tunic. But the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom, so they said to one another, let us not tear it, but cast lots for it to see whose it shall be. This was to fulfill the Scriptures which says, "The divided my garments among them and for my clothing they cast lots.

There are many more but you will rationalize them away with your infallible great logic.

Stupid quotes from a cliche kid's author don't convince me either.

I am not trying to convince you of anything. You posted your comments and I replied to them. If your logic tells you the Bible is stupid quotes, what you call logical, I will call illogical.

The bible, through textual clues, can be traced, at best, to the Israeli judge period or monarchy period. Maybe a few passages here and there predate that, but not by much. The Internet tells me that it was roughly 1050-950 BCE (the monarchy, not the bible).

Getting accurate information about the Bible from the is, O what can I say? How about, illogical.

 

[omega2xx]

It is difficult to be patient with the people who espouse the Bible above everything else when IN IT says that Jesus Christ will visit people. I can't believe that they think when Jesus visits people he won't say anything but "please let me in".

Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

It is also difficult to patient with people who quote Scripture and don't have a clue what it means.

 

[omega2xx]

Oh, the irony!

Answer the question.

 

[McBell]

Is there a basis on which you judge Truth that does NOT contain some horrible logical fallacy?

Is There a basis for you judging the Bible contains some horrible logical fallacy? What qualifies you to be the final judge of what is logical? How can what is logical be a fallacy?

I take it your answer is "no"?