You go on another forum?! What does the Bible say about adultery, eh?
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Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 'Christian'.
- Thread starter Sonny
- Start date
You go on another forum?! What does the Bible say about adultery, eh?
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
Why?
Is it your contention that "Christian" actually means "he who agrees with me about Christ?"
I have found many people who have defined the word in that way. That is, they make a list of all the things that 'must be believed' in order to be Christian (which just happens to coincide with the things THEY believe, oddly enough) and throw everybody else 'out of the club,' so to speak.
Some define the word as "saved." ....and then they have this list of things that must be believed to qualify someone as 'saved,' which...well, see above.
However, "Christian" does not mean "he who agrees with me." It doesn't mean 'saved,' either. It simply means someone who has the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth at the center of his religious beliefs, and who claims to be Christian. "Christian" can and does encompass some very disparate ideas indeed. Why, I submit to you that even Trinitarians are Christian.
That's a test you can make as to whether you think any specific belief is RIGHT...but not for whether any belief is 'Christian.' Now me? I believe that my own religious belief system is right, and has more truth than any other church. "The only true church" in that we have more of it than any of you who are NOT members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints. I can't say that none of you have ANY truth, because of course you do. Just not as much as we do.
And those of you who claim to be Christian, and believe that you ARE Christian, are Christian. You may be so far off the doctrinal rails that you can't even SEE 'em, and you may not be 'saved' (whatever that means to you) but you are Christian.
One last thing: I have often wondered why it is so important to those who obsess about this issue that Mormons (and Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-day Adventists and sometimes even Catholics) be denied the classification?
Inevitably it comes down to this: one does not treat fellow Christians with discourtesy, with mockery, or with physical violence or opposition. Therefore the first thing that must be done is to deny that the folks you are going after are Christians.
He whom one would persecute must first be made 'other.'
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
Do Muslims claim to be Christian?
I've never met one who did. If ever one does, I'll take his word for it. Doesn't make his beliefs any closer to Truth than they were before his declaration of Christianity, but that's an entirely different discussion.
BTW, 'slippery slope' is a fallacious argument, and you aren't just worried about what the consequences of allowing Mormons to be acknowledged as 'Christian' might be, you are, quite frankly, worried about an entirely different hill.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
It never ceases to amaze me what some "Christians" believe to be acceptable behavior in the eyes of God. It's times like this that I feel so blessed to be part of a church that teaches its members to love, rather than hate, one another. I don't even have words right now to express the depth of gratitude I feel for the fact that I am an LDS Christian.
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No one is a Christian by claiming they are
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Just as no one is "not a Christian" because someone else claims they aren't.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Did you notice that I wrote "in" in bold? There's a difference between believing about Jesus versus believing in Jesus.
Secondly, the Apostles Creed contains interpretations, most of which really do not necessary mean that one doesn't believe in Jesus if they disagree with them.
The bottom line to me is that if one says they're a Christian, I will take them at their word. However, with that being said, there are all too many, imo, that believe about Jesus but not in him, and I strongly feel that many churches today would kick Jesus out of their church if he came in without saying who he is, and then preaching his message of love, compassion, justice for all, care for the poor and downtrodden, etc. Many would probably laugh at that "hippie" and ask what drugs he's on.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Let me comment separately in this point.
I think that, based on what Jesus supposedly taught, that he would much rather be around a Muslim that believes in Jesus' message of compassion and justice for all versus a self-professed Christian who doesn't. There are some of the latter that I'm sometimes tempted to ask if they're members of the Church of the Rabid Pit-Bull, as they are so aggressive, judgmental, and demeaning towards anyone who dares disagree with them?
Living where I do, I am all to familiar with the "Church of the Rabid Pit Bull". Unfortunately.
Who came up with the "apostles creed", and when?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Hey, I hear ya.
Darn near had one of the pit bull pastors bite me once for simply not going along with his rant about the King James bible being the only bible for English speaking people. I lost points on my IQ for even taking part in that conversation. These days I just avoid them.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yes, and then maybe you can imagine me going to one of these churches for a wedding or a funeral with my yarmulke on and what I all too often hear.
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
You mean, except for the massacre of 19 men and two nine year old boys at Haun's Mill, the assassination of Joseph Smith by a mob of 200 men in blackface one night in Nauvoo, the burnning of a printing press and the torture of Mormon men in Jackson County, MO, and the complete expulsion of the church by executive order (the "Extermination Order"....and WE didn't call it that, Gov. Boggs, the guy who issued it, did) and the sending of half the US armed services against the Mormons in Utah because Buchanan wanted to shift attention away from his shenanigans with the southern states?
Ok.....I think that you have an odd understanding of what 'terrorism' is. Not that I condone the Mountain Meadows Massacre in any way, mind you; I don't. But considering the context in which it was committed, and the fact that Brigham Young explicitly told those people to leave the wagon train alone, I think perhaps you should rethink your position here in regard to whether it was the First Terrorist Act to occur on American Soil. Indeed, perhaps you should, er....read a history book? ANY history book? Even one of those conveniently rewritten ones viewed from a modern liberal perspective?
Me too.
Yes, they did. Of course, the fact that those people actually DID burn their own homes in what was pretty much along the same lines as a modern day insurance fraud would mean nothing to you, I'm sure.
........they would have been, if those settlers had been there at the time. How convenient it was for those who pulled this stuff that they had moved their families and livestock to a safer place, coincidentally, BEFORE the fires were set.
I don't suppose they have. Dunno why we should 'admit' to something we didn't do, but hey....
Yeah, some of 'em were.
Really.
Some 'white men' were equally savage, and it does so happen that the practice of 'scalping' was adopted BY Indians FROM 'white men.'
However, people being people, native Americans who had 'seen enough' were quite willing and capable of returning the favor, and they did.
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
That's right.
Well no. Do you not know what is required to be a Christian?