Is the Crucifix blasphemous?

[michel]

As for me, I don't really think it makes that big of a difference whether he died on a cross or a pole. Romans were known for crucifying people, so a cross isn't that farfetched. Yet if it were a pole, it wouldn't change anything. Just so long as you aren't worshipping either, I think you're fine.

Well, I personally agree, but I have always seen you as a 'sticler' (for accuracy in the Bible for instance) ; how do you reconcile accepting something that might or might not be accurate ?

 

[Scott1]

Pretty cool site that shows tons of different crosses (with pics) and gives the history behind them: http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/index-all.html

 

[adilrockstar]

One of the earliest contradictions I noticed growing up as a Catholic child was that of the Crucifix. One of the Ten Commandments, they would teach me in Sunday School , forbid the worshipping of "graven images". Then you would go into the main hall and behind the alter, loe and behold, would be a 9 foot tall statue of Jesus on the Cross, not to mention statues of Mary or other Saints. So I have to ask, wouldn't the Crucifix (not just a cross, but Jesus on the cross) and the saintly statues be considered "graven images"?

We worship Christ, the crucifix is a symbol of His sacrifice. We do not worship the cross itself.

 

[roli]

Religions do what is expedient and in their interests. They then alter, emphasize or de-emphasize doctrine to fit the fashion of the time.

Islam and Christianity both share written injunctions against depicting just about anything. Islam used to honor these but now seems to be ignoring them. Christianity, as far as I know, never honored these passages.

When you say christianity, you tend to place all in a group and from personal experience and first hand knowledge of studying other religions and becoming born again,all people who profess to be christian are the furthest thing from being a Christ follower but more so are a traditional ritualistic religious adherents only.

Regarding christianity alone,just because one professes a title for example as catholic,protestant,anglican,united,etc does not mean they are born again ,spirit filled followers of Jesus Christ,that would be called religion.
As in Jesus' day many of those who listened to Christ's teaching professed to be children of God but JESUS says they are hypocrites,white washed tombs.
I mean the religious leaders in Jesus day where adherents of the law,practiced religion,prayed to God and earnestly and devotely kept the law,but Jesus said that depart from me I never knew you.
They were the ones who approached Pilate to have Jesus crucified,so although they were jewish religious leaders,sadducees,pharisee's,scribes there religion was useless and only externally practiced.
So we must excerise caution when including all those who are profess Jesus,man judges outward appearance God judges the heart

 

[athanasius]

question: is the crucifix blasphamous?

Answer: Not according to Jesus or his Church!

 

[sojourner]

Raising the crucifix to the status of an object to be worshipped might be blasphemous, but, as Christians do not raise the crucifix to that status, the point is moot.

 

[athanasius]

Not only do I prefer the crucifix but also a couple of statuesa and icons of saints like Peter, John, Paul, and the blessed Virgin Mary when celebrating the sacrifice fo Holy Mass. Thank the Lord Jesus that our parish church(St John the Baptist) has all of these things and more.

The Church is a family building and house of God and what house doesn't have family pictures or images in them?

Thank the Lord again that this old argument was already settled by the Church centuries ago in the icnoclasm problem.

 

[KPereira]

No, but they do honor the Ten Commandments (or so they claim) and they state
I am God your Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, from the place of slavery. Do not have any other gods before Me. Do not represent [such] gods by any carved statue or picture of anything in the heaven above, on the earth below, or in the water below the land. Do not bow down to [such gods] or worship them. I am God your Lord, a God who demands exclusive worship.

I don't know if someone had brought this up, but did everyone miss this? It isn't saying that we shouldn't have crosses or wear a crucifix. It is saying not to make pictoral representations of 'gods', not 'God'. It is also saying not to worship them. Pretty obvious for a religion to preach this.

 

[cardero]

Is the Crucifix blasphemous?
Blasphemous hmmm....well let's just say I wouldn't expect Jesus to wear jewelry of the different ways that I died in my past lives.

 

[athanasius]

question: is the crucifix blasphamous?

Hmmmmm.....No. If anyone does think it is then they need to tell that to St Peregrine because obviously Jesus didn't think it was in his case.

 

[cbarron234]

In my opinion, worshiping the crucifix isn't contradictory. I'm 17 at a Catholic High School, so just...bear with me...haha.... Okay, I think when you worship an object, you are only worshiping that object, not the meaning or the story behind it. Worshiping the crucifix, well Catholics aren't actually worshiping the crucifix itself. We are worshiping the story and the meaning of Jesus sacrificing himself to save us. I think the object gives us something to be able to hold and to look at, to be reminded of what Jesus did for us. I think it helps Catholics feel closer to Jesus when they have an object representing the love he had for us. So, in all, I don't think Catholics are worshiping the actual crucifix, just what it means and represents to us.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not in of itself. Spitting on it and trampling it underfoot is, though.

Catholics view icons of the saints and statues as tools that aid in visualization. They're aids to enhance worship or prayer, not something you actually focus the actual worship or prayer on.

 

[blackout]

I often think that (the) money is the most obvious and overlooked graven image of all.

Money/the persuit of money, can so easily be
your security
your providence
your primary persuit
your primary guiding factor
etc

These things all sound like the 'GodSeat' to me.

You know, 'In God We Trust'... and all that...

 

[Prophet]

One of the earliest contradictions I noticed growing up as a Catholic child was that of the Crucifix. One of the Ten Commandments, they would teach me in Sunday School , forbid the worshipping of "graven images". Then you would go into the main hall and behind the alter, loe and behold, would be a 9 foot tall statue of Jesus on the Cross, not to mention statues of Mary or other Saints. So I have to ask, wouldn't the Crucifix (not just a cross, but Jesus on the cross) and the saintly statues be considered "graven images"?

The Ten Commandments were nothing more than ten rules which Moses wrote and claimed to be from God. Obviously, if beings doubted the authority or existence of Moses' God, their respect for these rules would be diminished. Worship of any other kind other than what Moses sanctioned as true worship would thus be dangerous to Moses' power structure.

Moses was a false prophet who furthered the ignorance of his people to increase power for his selfish desires. Even the setup for the supposed "handing down of the tablets" was an act of deception.

10 And the LORD said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. Have them wash their clothes 11 and be ready by the third day, because on that day the LORD will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. 12 Put limits for the people around the mountain and tell them, ‘Be careful that you do not approach the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain is to be put to death. 13 They are to be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on them. No person or animal shall be permitted to live.’ Only when the ram’s horn sounds a long blast may they approach the mountain.”

-from Exodus 19

Please read this passage carefully and come to the most logical conclusion of what happened upon Mt. Sinai. Was it a divine miracle or a human trick?

 

[sojourner]

One of the earliest contradictions I noticed growing up as a Catholic child was that of the Crucifix. One of the Ten Commandments, they would teach me in Sunday School , forbid the worshipping of "graven images". Then you would go into the main hall and behind the alter, loe and behold, would be a 9 foot tall statue of Jesus on the Cross, not to mention statues of Mary or other Saints. So I have to ask, wouldn't the Crucifix (not just a cross, but Jesus on the cross) and the saintly statues be considered "graven images"?

We don't worship the crucifix as a god. The crucifix is an icon -- a symbol for the God we worship. There's a significant theological difference.

 

[Father Heathen]

[youtube]SeDCHgX5BOQ[/youtube]
Bill Hicks - Crosses (greek subs -

 

[Prophet]

We don't worship the crucifix as a god. The crucifix is an icon -- a symbol for the God we worship. There's a significant theological difference.

Many people who worship idols don't worship the idols themselves, but rather the gods which the idols represent. This is still idol worship. How can the cross be demonstrated to be any different?

Mind you, I don't have any issues with idol worship in itself, but the cross definitely is a graven image, and some Christians feel a need to concentrate on it while they worship what the cross represents. This is a clear conflict with the Ten Commandments.

 

[sojourner]

Many people who worship idols don't worship the idols themselves, but rather the gods which the idols represent. This is still idol worship. How can the cross be demonstrated to be any different?

You need to understand that the idol that is the subject of prohibition in the Ten Commandments, though, was worshiped as an object that had power, in and of itself. What we refer to as an "idol," isn't the same thing at all. The crucifix has no power in and of itself. It is a focal point for God's power -- not its own power.

Mind you, I don't have any issues with idol worship in itself, but the cross definitely is a graven image, and some Christians feel a need to concentrate on it while they worship what the cross represents. This is a clear conflict with the Ten Commandments.

No, it isn't, due to the reason I laid out above. Concentrating on an icon isn't the same as worshiping an object as a god.


What UV said about money is closer to the Ten Commandments version of an idol.

 

[Prophet]

So what you're saying is that to be a TRUE idol worshiper, you must be deluded into thinking the object you are staring at is God, or His power, in and of itself? You must think idol worshipers must necessarily be very stupid people.

Why can't the idol worshiper also see the idol as a focal point for God's power? Is it because the idol is the wrong shape? Is it because you worship the TRUE God and they worship a fake one?

Couldn't these idol worshipers look at your place of worship and also say your idol is the wrong shape? Couldn't they also mirror the same feigned certainty, calling followers of your religion the stupid, deluded ones because they worship the TRUE God and you worship a fake?

What I am most puzzled by is your reverence for the Ten Commandments. I said my piece on this travesty of power earlier in this thread.

 

[Prophet]

In case my postion isn't clear, I'm saying the cross isn't blamphemous. I do not base this upon whether or not it is an idol, but rather that the original rule against idolatry was written with evil intent.

Laws against blasphemy are man made, written by the authorities. Not God. The concept of blasphemy in itself is a mere mind control method.