Curious George
Veteran Member
So reality be damned. You believe what you will despite evidence and facts agaimst it?
I cannot say I admire that.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Is The Political Future Of Elizabeth Warren Over?
- Thread starter esmith
- Start date
I cannot say I admire that.
Shad
Veteran Member
She followed the one drop rule as a Dem..... That questions her ethics and her understanding of basic math. Although in no way does this disqualify her to run as POTUS.
esmith
Veteran Member
I would have to say that I may not believe all of what "you" think of reality.
Curious George
Veteran Member
Sure. But in this instance, it is my view that is closer to reality. Specifically, I do not believe all, most, or even a substantially large portion of one political side are consumed with worries over "appropriation." I acknowledge that there is discussion of appropriation, but there are also diverse views on what, if anything, constitutes appropriation, where actions, seen by some as appropiation, crosses ethical lines, and how important ideas of appropriation are in the grand scheme.
Whether she perpetrated her fraud knowingly or not, she made one. In your world fraud is nothing illegal or unethical.
I know of no rule of ethics that she violated. If you do, quote it.
I am also unaware that she "followed the one drop rule as a Dem," whatever that means.
What fraud are you claiming that she perpetrated?
Fraud always includes a false statement, misrepresentation or deceitful conduct. The purpose is to gain something of value, usually money, by misleading or deceiving someone into believing something that the perpetrator knows to be false.
Fraud - FindLaw
Prove your claim. Begin by showing that a statement she made is false.
esmith
Veteran Member
The facts: Elizabeth Warren and her Native American ties
From: FACT CHECK: Did Elizabeth Warren Lie About Her Native American Heritage to Land a Job at Harvard?
The legitimacy of Warren’s claims to Native American heritage has certainly been challenged by many critics, and it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools, and that Harvard Law School at one time promoted Warren as a Native American faculty member. But specific evidence that she gained her position at Harvard (at least in part) through her claims to Native American heritage is lacking. Warren denied applying for special consideration as a person of Native American heritage during her career, and when the matter was examined in 2012 in response to Brown’s claims, people with whom Warren had worked similarly denied her ancestral background’s factoring into the professional opportunities afforded her:
The former chairman of the American Association of Law Schools, David Bernstein, told the Herald that the group’s directory once served as a tip sheet for administrators. “In the old days before the Internet, you’d pull out the AALS directory and look up people,” he said. “There are schools that, if they were looking for a minority faculty member, would go to that list and might say, ‘I didn’t know Elizabeth Warren was a minority.'”Warren said she didn’t know Harvard had used her heritage as proof of diversity until reading about the issue in the news, according to a Herald report. She also denied that she ever tried to gain a professional advantage through her lineage.
Warren responded she was recruited for the positions and did not “apply” for them; and for the most part, her record did not indicate any identification as part of a minority group:
The Globe obtained a portion of Warren’s application to Rutgers, which asks if prospective students want to apply for admission under the school’s Program for Minority Group Students. Warren answered “no.”For her employment documents at the University of Texas, Warren indicated that she was “white.”
But Penn’s 2005 Minority Equity Report identified her as the recipient of a 1994 faculty award, listing her name in bold to signify that she was a minority.
The Herald has twice quoted Charles Fried, the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, saying that the Democratic candidate’s heritage didn’t come up during the course of her hiring. “It simply played no role in the appointments process,” he said. “It was not mentioned and I didn’t mention it to the faculty.”
The Herald later quoted Fried, a former U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan, saying, “I can state categorically that the subject of her Native American ancestry never once was mentioned.”
In September 2018, the Boston Globe published the results of an investigation over whether Warren was hired at Harvard because “had decided to self-identify as a Native American woman and Harvard saw a chance to diversify the law faculty.” The Globe concluded that:
In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman.
The Globe examined hundreds of documents, many of them never before available, and reached out to all 52 of the law professors who are still living and were eligible to be in [on the decision]. Some are Warren’s allies. Others are not. Thirty-one agreed to talk to the Globe — including the law professor who was, at the time, in charge of recruiting minority faculty. Most said they were unaware of her claims to Native American heritage and all but one of the 31 said those claims were not discussed as part of her hire. One professor told the Globe he is unsure whether her heritage came up, but is certain that, if it did, it had no bearing on his vote on Warren’s appointment.
In October 2018, Senator Warren released a controversial report on a DNA analysis that was said to show a pure Native American ancestor appeared in her ancestry “in the range of six to 10 generations ago.”
In February 2019 the Washington Post surfaced Warren’s 1986 registration card for the State Bar of Texas, on which she identified her race as “American Indian.”
It's fruitless to make a legalistic argument that Pocahontas did no wrong.
I see no one arguing that she committed some prosecuted offense.
Instead, it's about her judgment & character in claiming Indian blood
to advance her career. To what extent did she pretend this, & even if
she were sincere, was this reckless appropriation of someone else's
victim status?
If white leaders should resign office for performing in blackface, then
her false claims of Cherokee membership might surpass those wrongs.
I agree with this. Until the days of instant ancestry results our heritage was handed down pretty much word of mouth from one generation to the next. In Warren's case it was at least partially true and she did take advantage of it on her form for admittance.
Living in Massachusetts I have mixed feelings about Warren as she new the probability of running for president when she ran for re-election to the Senate.
As we have a republican governor he would appoint a republican to replace her. I believe she is adamant about a level playing field.
Shad
Veteran Member
I never claimed she broke a rule of ethics such as one created by government. I said her claims to race were not ethical.
Her heritage claims. She claimed (now shown to be false) to be a minority based only on 1 grandparent. Do the math.
One-drop rule - Wikipedia
My partner Doug, is 1/8th Cherokee.
The rest is "mostly German Euro-mutt", but you can sorta see it in his cheekbones, beard, and wirey muscularity.
What's remarkable to me is that the family story and one old dagguerotype(sp) survived the 20th century emphasis on racial purity and genocide. Pictures of him as a young'un show a tow-headed cutie with big brown eyes. The blonde was one of the few things he got from his miscreant white baby daddy.
But he would probably qualify as a "Native American" .
Native Americans are a dime a dozen around here. Hard to tell that they were genocided nearly into nonexistence.
But I live in a country where the president got rich defrauding contractors and investors with high powered lawyers. He used bankruptcy and tax dodges as financial tools. He paid off a Porn star to shut her up about banging him while his third wife was giving birth, then lied about it. He was a "birther" until a month before the election. He got his kids and employees to lie about collaboration with Wikileaks and Putin.
But, somehow, Trump supporters still think that Pocahontas' checking a box is still the big deal fraud.
That is so Christian it makes me wanna puke!
Tom
The rest is "mostly German Euro-mutt", but you can sorta see it in his cheekbones, beard, and wirey muscularity.
What's remarkable to me is that the family story and one old dagguerotype(sp) survived the 20th century emphasis on racial purity and genocide. Pictures of him as a young'un show a tow-headed cutie with big brown eyes. The blonde was one of the few things he got from his miscreant white baby daddy.
But he would probably qualify as a "Native American" .
Native Americans are a dime a dozen around here. Hard to tell that they were genocided nearly into nonexistence.
But I live in a country where the president got rich defrauding contractors and investors with high powered lawyers. He used bankruptcy and tax dodges as financial tools. He paid off a Porn star to shut her up about banging him while his third wife was giving birth, then lied about it. He was a "birther" until a month before the election. He got his kids and employees to lie about collaboration with Wikileaks and Putin.
But, somehow, Trump supporters still think that Pocahontas' checking a box is still the big deal fraud.
That is so Christian it makes me wanna puke!
Tom
esmith
Veteran Member
The porcelain god is probably readable available to serve you.
That is so TeaParty Christian of you it's hard to express.
Without getting yet another RF infraction point. You aren't worth it.
Tom
You have a funny definition of unethical.
It’s either a neglegent or intentional misrepresentation to get ahead (i.e., fraud).
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
If her political future is over, then the Democrat Party is effectively up ****'s creek. It will definitely cinch my vote for Trump for a second term.
Personally I think she'll be okay. I would think it would take a lot worse to put a person out of the political arena.