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Is The Quran Superior?
- Thread starter Jimmy
- Start date
McBell
Admiral Obvious
To what?
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
Read my post
firedragon
Veteran Member
Not quite right. Muslims don't have this "purity from translations" issue and never did. Muslims always considered any kind of translation to be not the Qur'an at all. It's a translation.
Any kind of text must be written down by men. Muslims don't believe the Qur'an is God's word because of that.
I think to do a critique of this sort, you must have a better understanding of their position. I believe rather than making statements like this brother, you should ask questions, no matter if they are right or wrong. Understand their epistemology.
Isn't it part of the doctrine (or rather, of the surviving schools of Quranic interpretations) that the Qur'an is perfect and immutable due to assurances from God that it will be so?
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
Nice to know
firedragon
Veteran Member
That's the predominant view if not all. Just that they don't use the words you had used, but that's the gist of it.
Tomef
Well-Known Member
I’m not sure what the ‘official’ position is, but there is a certain amount of myth making around the origins of today’s Quran.
A couple of decades after Mohammed’s death, there were several variants of the Quran in circulation (sometimes euphemistically referred to as companion codices). An official version was settled on, and the remainder destroyed. Between the surviving codices non-Islamic scholars are permitted to examine, there are only minor differences, although some scholars point to signs of editing. Some surviving texts can only be viewed by carefully vetted Islamic scholars. Overall, that compares quite favourably with the NT, though, as there was a wider gap between Jesus’ death and the writing of the gospels than between Mohammed’s and the collecting of Quaranic writings, and the various non-canonical gospels seem to have been even more diverse than the Quran variants.
It’s a shame wider, more open discussion within academia and within Islamic societies isn’t permitted without unreasonable restrictions. Understanding of the Bible has been greatly enhanced by total liberty of academic study, and that general approach has also been beneficial for nominally Christian societies, as part of the overall development towards greater openness and equality.
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I like that Quran says people should believe Jesus. But, how do they know is Bible corrupt?
“…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah… …believe in Allah and His messengers…”
Quran 4:171, Surat An-Nisa' [4:171] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
rocala
Well-Known Member
Wise words firedragon.
fatemahmanahil
New Member
just ask Chat GPT to create a verse or chapter of Quran, and see the results.....
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
There is a theory which posits that the Quran was changed in the early days of the emergence of Islam as it was forming into an organized religion. The evidence is so-so. Maybe the Quran was changed, maybe not.
For me? A Muslim's accusations against the Torah are no different than any other individual talking smack and slinging mud at their competition. I have a couple of contractors who do this all the time: "Who installed this water heater??? Never call them again. Here's my card. I'll put my sticker with my phone number right here on the side of the new one. Call me anytime."
It would be circular reasoning to say Bible is corrupt because God or his Messenger (s) said so.
However, a better way would be to show an alternative view, and than you can assess which one is true and more rational, and Quran facilitates the thinking to see that.
There are major differences between the Bible and Quran on:
Haroun (not the type to vie with Moses over his authority)
Talut (Saul) (not the type to get jealous over Dawood)
Sulaiman (is not the type to be chosen then die a pagan)
etc
The Quran and hadiths hold Prophets (a) at a greater standard.
I think there is a great contradiction in the Bible, it emphasizes on who God chooses, but then also de-emphasizes on them and shows they can be be corrupted and even die a pagan as did Solomon per the Bible.
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I believe most definitely beyond any doubt whatsoever that the Quran is the Word of God. It is man’s interpretation and understanding which are fallible.
Sura 5:46
We sent Jesus, son of Mary, in their footsteps, to confirm the Torah that had been sent before him: We gave him the Gospel with guidance, light, and confirmation of the Torah already revealed- a guide and lesson for those who take heed of God
The Quran confirms and upholds the Torah and Gospel. That is pure truth.
That would not be a proper way to conclude.
I just want to make a comment of why people get so tied up with superiority and competition. Why see other religions as adversaries? I believe it is due to both ignorance and misguided indoctrination. I have investigated all the religions, Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam Hinduism and so on and their spiritual truths all teach truth. Only the social laws differ according to the place they were born. But Buddha teaches love just like Christ did and Hinduism teaches peace as the Quran does. The only problem is people do not obey their religion and have tried to make it a competition of which is superior and the greatest which to me is nothing but an ego trip.
All of the spiritual teachings of all religions are very beautiful if one takes the time to study the original teachings with their own minds and not what others or clergy say.
All of the spiritual teachings of all religions are very beautiful if one takes the time to study the original teachings with their own minds and not what others or clergy say.
Pawpatrol
Active Member
Muslims don't think the "impurity" of the Bible comes from translation (alone) but from actual distortion, deletion and addition of text that shouldn't be there.
The physical book is written by men, as in men put pen to paper, but they wrote the words that were recited by the prophet Muhammad (saws).
It was originally, at the time of the prophet (saws) both memorized as well as written down. And then later compiled based on the writings and the memorization.
Pawpatrol
Active Member
Because you can either sit or stand — you can't sit and stand at the same time.
It would be circular reasoning to conclude on that basis, because the verse itself can be stated to be a corruption.
To me, it's the overall plan of Quran and hadiths to end Nubuwa with Mohammad (s) and seeing how the Quran is safeguarded by allowing the enemies to misinterpret it despite it being clear, that has lead me to believe it's been safeguarded.
Otherwise, Quran could've been written in a way where it's more explicit in the things it says in a way no one can deny.
I see the issue of interpretation. After Mohammad (s), it was about interpretation, and today the issue is about interpretation.
Neither sitting nor standing is required but reflection. No one truth can contradict another truth. The disparities are man made not from God.