Is the Religious Right in America gunning for you?

[Subduction Zone]

You know exactly who I'm talking about.

I am taking you at your word. I don't want to have to point out that someone is a liar.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's not what the passage you were referring to is even about

Of course it is. What do you think that the verse that I am referring to is about?

By the way, what you are suffering right now is called Cognitive Dissonance.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes it does. It's you ignoring fact. This is from Numbers. It's instructions on how to identify when a pregnancy occurred due to the wife's infidelity and how to abort it if it did.

It's not about abortion. It's about the God's judgement. There's nothing being given to the woman but water.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I am taking you at your word. I don't want to have to point out that someone is a liar.

So you would kill a baby that's 20 weeks in the womb?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So you would kill a baby that's 20 weeks in the womb?

First tell me how you stuff a baby back into a womb for 20 weeks.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You know exactly who I'm talking about.

Yes, this baby:

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So you would kill a baby that's 20 weeks in the womb?

No, I wouldn't kill such a living being*, but I wouldn't call it a baby. But even that comes with a caveat*, because there are rare conditions, where I would if I were such a doctor, that did that. E.g. there are pregnancies outside the womb. Did you know that?

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
The cattle and meat industries can survive without destroying the planet I would hope, but only if we eat meat responsibly

Whatever that means.

Which words are you struggling with?

You apparently have a very elementary understanding of these things.

From the man who doesn't know the difference between methane and carbon dioxide.

Again lots of people out there promoting doing away with the meat industry.

There are lots of people claiming the world is flat, denying facts like species evolution, and climate change, so what? I am not responsible for what others claim.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
The left? You just made that piece of ludicrous hyperbole up didn't you.

Nope, I was told by Left leaning individuals on this site and others that we should be forced to be vaccinated.

So not the left then, which was a piece of ludicrous hyperbole you simply made up, as I pointed out.

 

[Sheldon]

What does that mean?

What does what mean? Who are you talking to, and what are you talking about?

 

[Sheldon]

They are all humans...I would not kill a human child at any stage.

Abortion involves a balstocyst, zygot, embryo, egg, or foetus, but never a child.

 

[Sheldon]

There's no such thing as gun violence,

Of course there is, what a spectacularly stupid claim. That's like saying there's no such thing as pipe bombs, only nasty people.

 

[Sheldon]

Subduction Zone said: ↑
What baby? You keep using terms that you do not seem to understand.

You know exactly who I'm talking about.

I believe he does, I'm not at all sure you do though, if you think abortions involve babies and infants.

 

[Sheldon]

So you would kill a baby that's 20 weeks in the womb?

It's not a baby if it hasn't been born, it is an insentient foetus. Prior to 24 weeks a foetus doesn't the neural connections necessary to register pain.

 

[Sheldon]

First tell me how you stuff a baby back into a womb for 20 weeks.

Damn it, just spat wine everywhere.

 

[F1fan]

Alcohol is already legal.

So is abortion. But right wing Christian/political extremists won't stand by the established law.

The problem with both is mis use. Pot that is removed from it's harmful effects supposedly has some medical benefits. Same with wine. But most people mis use them for the high.

Misuse can extend to anything that is available. Fatty foods, cigarettes and booze, drugs, both legal and illegal, cars with high horsepower, guns, disinformation, etc. Alcohol has no health benefits. Red wine has some health benefits in moderation. Pot is known to have health benefits and that is why it is being legalized for medical use, and even casual use in some places. Your post here ignores, and even doubts, the health benefit of pot, which is typical right wing disinformation that you surely expose yourself to. And your views don't even advocate for how people can be more responsible in practical ways. Obviously your religious belief doesn't stop evangelicals from cheating on their spouses, so that isn't an option. So what do you suggest?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

They are all humans...I would not kill a human child at any stage.

Me, neither, but embryos and early fetuses, even human ones, are not the same as late-term fetuses or children, and are subject to different.

The main difference between pro-choice and anti-choice perspectives is that the latter acknowledge that there is a time during a pregnancy when abortion is morally neutral due to the fetus being insentient flesh. Such people agree with you that killing a late-term fetus and children are immoral. Your effort is to obliterate that line by taking childhood back into the womb and extending it back to conception. OK. By that reckoning, it is sometimes OK to kill a child. The way the pro-choicer uses the language, that is never acceptable, but if you prefer, we can accommodate that nomenclature simply by acknowledging that some children can be aborted - the ones that are also early term fetuses.

No. Where did you get that?

Get what? That you consider an early term conceptus a child? From your quote above. That if that is a child, that it is morally acceptable to kill some children? From combining your idea that they are children with mine about the moral status of abortion. That hasn't changed. All that has changed is me adopting your nomenclature for the present purpose.

Yes it does. It's you ignoring fact. This is from Numbers. It's instructions on how to identify when a pregnancy occurred due to the wife's infidelity and how to abort it if it did. It looks like God is the abortionist here:

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”​

It's not about abortion. It's about the God's judgement. There's nothing being given to the woman but water.

But it is about abortion. Specifically, using some kind of dusty holy water to selectively abort illegitimate fetuses, or children if you prefer.

The biblical god doesn't have much problem with killing actual children, either, whether by dashing them on the rocks, killing the first born in a plague, or using bears to dismember the disrespectful ones.

Also, presumably, you don't consider miscarriages to be divine abortions. Neither do I, but I'm an atheist. Why wouldn't you? Because you believe by faith that a deity exists who objects to abortion like you do, so, no abortions to you, even when those not wearing that confirmation bias can see otherwise.

What is happening here to you is what always happens when a person tries to defend an incorrect and indefensible position accepted by faith. You want a deity that is as firmly opposed to abortion as you are, but that's not what you have if one goes by scripture and the frequency of miscarriage. So, you argue points easily refuted using scripture as I just did, then make outrageous comments such as that not being about abortion. Of course it is. It's how to identify and abort illegitimate fetuses. Yet here you are trying to make that go away, because you have chosen the wrong position regarding the god of the Christian Bible.

And you are forced to deflect to a red herring. Of course it's about God's judgment, which is the point: God judges abortion appropriate in some contexts. It's also about abortion.

And the antidote is not just water if you believe the Bible. It's holy water. Or are you saying that that's not a thing, and the scripture was in error to imply that it more than water?​

 

[Wildswanderer]

conceptus a child? From your quote above. That if that is a child, that it is morally acceptable to kill some children? From combining your idea that they are children with mine about the moral status of abortion. That hasn't changed. All that has changed is me adopting your nomenclature for the present purpose.

No you are insinuating I'm ok with it...I'm not.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Your post here ignores, and even doubts, the health benefit of pot,

Where? You obviously didn't read my posts.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It's not a baby if it hasn't been born,

Of course he's a baby... and deserves to live. I bet you are glad your mom didn't use your reasoning.