Is the Republican Party suffering a complete moral collapse?

[Revoltingest]

Yes, I know you said it, which is why I rebutted it. I provided an evidenced counterargument that that is not what happened. You addressed none of that evidence. As you noted, you repeated yourself instead.

It wasn't clear that you understood.

The Democrats were offended by the insurrection, not the Republicans...

Not all Pubs.
I don't think your argument is as evidenced as you believe.
Agree to disagree about the possibility I proposed.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh, you partisans....always seeing one's
foes in the most extreme way possible.
Not all Republicans are morally bankrupt.
Neither are all Democrats.
All socialists are....uh....let's set that aside.

Even plenty of Christians are better people and more tolerant than what their god permits.
The Republican Party itself is not renouncing it's worst members en masse. Rather, instead as an establishment and party it still allows those who would overturn the election based on fairytales and myths,and encourages them to do so.
*As I typed that I got a push alert that two RW extremists were found guilty of sedition. Lets see if the Republican Party will distance themselves and denounce those terrorists (I doubt it).

 

[Revoltingest]

Even plenty of Christians are better people and more tolerant than what their god permits.
The Republican Party itself is not renouncing it's worst members en masse. Rather, instead as an establishment and party it still allows those who would overturn the election based on fairytales and myths,and encourages them to do so.
*As I typed that I got a push alert that two RW extremists were found guilty of sedition. Lets see if the Republican Party will distance themselves and denounce those terrorists (I doubt it).

Progress...
Oath Keepers' Rhodes guilty of Jan. 6 seditious conspiracy

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Progress...
Oath Keepers' Rhodes guilty of Jan. 6 seditious conspiracy

It's progress, but how is the Republican establishment handling it?

 

[Revoltingest]

It's progress, but how is the Republican establishment handling it?

We'll see.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Wouldn't a "collapse" imply previously existing morals? I prefer to think of it as the mask slipping off.

 

[metis]

I await your vote, and your reasons.

I had to vote "Yes" as the majority of Republicans have bought into the Big Lie and supported and voted for a president who defies even the most basic Judeo-Christian and humanitarians ethics as even the likes of Stephen Hawking noted*. A majority of the "religious right" have voted for and supported Trump and still do, and that's basically a thumb in the eye of Jesus' Sermon On the Mount that posits a totally different teaching than Trump and his followers.

As Gandhi said, all too many Christians "elevated the man and forgot his message".


* “He is a demagogue, who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator.” -- Stephen Hawking

 

[Ponder This]

A couple of days ago, Donald Trump hosted anti-Semitic and racists Nick Fuentes and Kanye (Ye) West at dinner. Only a couple of Republicans have expressed any negative feelings about a exPOTUS doing such a thing.

In Arizona, today is the last day to certify that last election. Not all Arizona counties are willing to do this -- those who think Republicans should have won -- NO MATTER WHAT THE VOTERS THOUGHT.

Republicans are trying to make it harder for certain minorities (you know, the ones that don't consistently vote Repulican) to vote.

It's endless. It never stops. I can only think that the party that believes itself to be the religious heart of America has simply suffered a total moral collapse -- I suspect because morals are more expendable than power.

I await your vote, and your reasons.

Let me see if I understand your reasoning...

Premise 1. Some Republicans (including Trump himself, btw) expressed negative feelings about the the presence of Nick Fuentes and Kanye West at his dinner.
Premise 2. Not all Arizona counties certified the vote.

Conclusion 1: Republicans don't care what voters think.
Conclusion 2: Republicans are trying to make it hard for minorities to vote.

Final Conclusion: Republicans are suffering a complete moral collapse.​

There's not enough of an argument here to justify your conclusions. I regard your final conclusion as hyperbole at best.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Let me see if I understand your reasoning...

Premise 1. Some Republicans (including Trump himself, btw) expressed negative feelings about the the presence of Nick Fuentes and Kanye West at his dinner.
Premise 2. Not all Arizona counties certified the vote.

Conclusion 1: Republicans don't care what voters think.
Conclusion 2: Republicans are trying to make it hard for minorities to vote.

Final Conclusion: Republicans are suffering a complete moral collapse.​

There's not enough of an argument here to justify your conclusions. I regard your final conclusion as hyperbole at best.

I was careful to say "Republican Party" (note the capitals) rather than the more inclusive Republicans. By which I was hoping you might see that I was referring to all those members, elected and seeking election, who are remaining steadfastly silent on what should be an important issue.

I am aware, as @lewisnotmiller pointed out in another thread, that the Republican electorate, overall, had a better moral showing than those seeking election.

 

[Ponder This]

I was careful to say "Republican Party" (note the capitals) rather than the more inclusive Republicans. By which I was hoping you might see that I was referring to all those members, elected and seeking election, who are remaining steadfastly silent on what should be an important issue.

I am aware, as @lewisnotmiller pointed out in another thread, that the Republican electorate, overall, had a better moral showing than those seeking election.

Ah, politicians are scum?

I'm not sure how important Kanye and Nick's visit should be - it's importance seemed to be on the level of highschool drama.

Election certification on the other hand seems more important. And the certification battle appears to indicate that the Republican Party does care what voters think. It also seems that the Republican Party would like to have more minority vote, which is a growing demographic for Republicans right now.

When I think "moral collapse", I think of those politicians who had their Church inform them that they are advocating against the mores of their Church (Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden). But don't you have to have morals before they can collapse?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Ah, politicians are scum?

I'm not sure how important Kanye and Nick's visit should be - it's importance seemed to be on the level of highschool drama.

You are known by the company you keep.

Election certification on the other hand seems more important. And the certification battle appears to indicate that the Republican Party does care what voters think. It also seems that the Republican Party would like to have more minority vote, which is a growing demographic for Republicans right now.

The election itself represents "what the voters think." The urge not to certify says precisely the opposite of what you just suggested -- that if Republicans didn't get all the votes they think they deserve, then the votes they got shouldn't count.

When I think "moral collapse", I think of those politicians who had their Church inform them that they are advocating against the mores of their Church (Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden). But don't you have to have morals before they can collapse?

Anyone who supposes that their church is infallible isn't thinking too clearly. Churches are human institutions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When I think "moral collapse", I think of those politicians who had their Church inform them that they are advocating against the mores of their Church (Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden). But don't you have to have morals before they can collapse?

That's because they accept not everyone believes as they do, not everyone is the same religion and denomination they are, amd it's unAmerican and unConstitutional to base legislation on religion and force others into religious observance.

 

[metis]

When I think "moral collapse", I think of those politicians who had their Church inform them that they are advocating against the mores of their Church (Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden). But don't you have to have morals before they can collapse?

We in Catholicism, including Nancy & Joe, have the right of personal discernment as the Church teaches per the Catechism. IOW, the Church is not the Gestapo.

 

[England my lionheart]

A couple of days ago, Donald Trump hosted anti-Semitic and racists Nick Fuentes and Kanye (Ye) West at dinner. Only a couple of Republicans have expressed any negative feelings about a exPOTUS doing such a thing


In Arizona, today is the last day to certify that last election. Not all Arizona counties are willing to do this -- those who think Republicans should have won -- NO MATTER WHAT THE VOTERS THOUGHT.

Republicans are trying to make it harder for certain minorities (you know, the ones that don't consistently vote Repulican) to vote.

It's endless. It never stops. I can only think that the party that believes itself to be the religious heart of America has simply suffered a total moral collapse -- I suspect because morals are more expendable than power.

I await your vote, and your reasons.

I voted “never had a moral centre” as a driving force ,imo of course.

 

[fantome profane]

I think those who said they never had a moral centre are being more cynical than historical.

 

[Ponder This]

You are known by the company you keep.

That's a perfect summation of the highschool clique mentality. It also plays nicely into team think.

The election itself represents "what the voters think." The urge not to certify says precisely the opposite of what you just suggested -- that if Republicans didn't get all the votes they think they deserve, then the votes they got shouldn't count.

Why wouldn't you want to be certain of the vote before you certify it (if the vote is "what the voters think")?

Anyone who supposes that their church is infallible isn't thinking too clearly. Churches are human institutions.

What point you are trying to make?
Churches are not infallible. Some people aren't thinking clearly.
Therefore... ?
Pelosi is infallible? Biden is moral? The Republican Party is suffering "moral collapse"?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Why wouldn't you want to be certain of the vote before you certify it (if the vote is "what the voters think")?

I would -- but the question is (as it was in 2020), how many different ways are you going to count votes for which you already set up a system you felt would accurately record them?

Think about it for a moment -- how many Republicans are still trying to throw out elections from 2020?

Is the only characteristic of a "fair election" the fact that you won? Because that's what Republicans continue to do, on and on and on ad nauseum. And ad absurdum.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I would -- but the question is (as it was in 2020), how many different ways are you going to count votes for which you already set up a system you felt would accurately record them?

Think about it for a moment -- how many Republicans are still trying to throw out elections from 2020?

Is the only characteristic of a "fair election" the fact that you won? Because that's what Republicans continue to do, on and on and on ad nauseum. And ad absurdum.

In the last election certain election boards had to be threatened by a judge in Arizona. They would not accept that their Republican governor lost her re-election bid.

 

[metis]

When I think "moral collapse", I think of those politicians who had their Church inform them that they are advocating against the mores of their Church (Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden). But don't you have to have morals before they can collapse?

And which morals did they supposedly violate? And why are you implying they have none? Seems to me that you're acting like both judge and jury and assuming their guilt, which is a rather clear violation of Judeo-Christian and basic democratic ethics.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That's a perfect summation of the highschool clique mentality. It also plays nicely into team think.

Is it though? I mean, do you spend a lot of your time hanging out with Nazis? Invite them to your home for dinner? What do you think it might say about you if you did?

If you had a child in high school who was hanging out with kids who mug elderly ladies on a weekly basis, would you be at all concerned about your child and what (s)he might be up to?

I mean, seriously, we're not allowed to judge people who hang out with white supremacists now? Nah. I'm gonna keep calling out that kind of crap.

Why wouldn't you want to be certain of the vote before you certify it (if the vote is "what the voters think")?



What point you are trying to make?
Churches are not infallible. Some people aren't thinking clearly.
Therefore... ?
Pelosi is infallible? Biden is moral? The Republican Party is suffering "moral collapse"?