Is there an afterlife? / The ultimate goal for man

[religion99]

I personally believe there is and that this life has a point and isn't just about growing and growing and growing only one day to be toppled into non existence.

Yes, there is. Here is relevant discussion

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...587-anybody-remember-their-previous-life.html

In my studies I have learned that Hindus believe that the ultimate goal for man to achieve is to break the cycle of reincarnation and cease to exist, while for a great many others it is the ultimate goal to live forever. What do you think the ultimate goal is for man?

Here is THE PROCEDURE to break the cycle , according to my belief:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/119533-path-eternal-happiness.html

 

[Evandr]

If the fact that the outcome is fixed is what makes our lives meaningless (which is what it seems you're arguing), then doesn't God's divine plan make your life meaningless?

Nothing is fixed save the principles of the Gospel, the power of the priesthood and the goal of eternal increase in the presence of God, we do have our free agency. It all centers on the concept and establishment of the family.

I think you do not understand what a grand privilege pro creation is and why our Heavenly Father has placed such stringent guidelines on how it is to be established and the hierarchy therein along with the responsibilities of each member thereof. It is the vehicle by which all else either succeeds or fails, it is why during this mortal probation we are required to demonstrate our devotion to it or disdain of it that we may be judged worthy or not to have the privilege as God has the privilege.

We take pro creation for granted in mortality because we are born with that ability but in the eternities such an ability is reserved only for those who are worthy of it, it is the source of eternal increase and joy, it is the only thing that matters, all else is beside the point, it is power to effect the eternal destinies of others and such power cannot and will not be bestowed on someone who demonstrates an inability to respect it and use it correctly. If one finds themself denied this supernal blessing then their increase will have an end and their joy will never reach its potential. The anguish of one who must face the reality of their short comings is unimaginable while the joy of those who succeed will know no bounds.

 

[Falvlun]

I believe there is a life after death awaiting every living creature.
When I die and find out for certain I have an immortal spirit I will ethir look back on my life with regret, or feel confident about my life insomuch that I will be able to look forward with confidence.
I find it facinating just how concerned people can be concerning what happens when you die.
I know that it concerned Emperor Qin the first emperor of China enough to build the 8000 life sized individual Terracotta Warriors. If all these strong and powerful leaders who had everything throughout history have been so concerned, should we not be also?

A lot of those strong and powerful warriors also believed that the sun revolved around the Earth. Should we?

 

[Majikthise]

I believe that we came to this earth with one goal in mind - to return to the presence of our Heavenly Father and become like him.

"I" , and most likely a number of other people, don't. Anyway we're not talking about a diety, we're talking about the afterlife. They have nothing to do with one another. Or so I was told.





[/quote]I believe that we have had millennia of pre mortal existence and preparation for this mortal trial, the memory of which will be returned to us when we are done here. When you couple that memory of who and what we were before mortality with the reality of how we spent our mortality then those who blew it will have the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth for their failure while those who measured up to the goal will have joy beyond mortal comprehension - so go ahead, eat your bacon sandwich and drink your brew, enjoy it while you can because, IMHO, the day will come when, if you fail mortality, the thought of doing so will be putrid when compared to the price paid to maintain such an attitude. [/quote]

I'll consider myself warned.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

A lot of those strong and powerful warriors also believed that the sun revolved around the Earth. Should we?

really? I'm sorry I can't quite say I read that in any of my studies, do you have any references?

You know it is really fascinating learning about how educated a great many of the early civilizations were when it comes to Astrology. For Example the people who built Stone Henge, The Myans, The Aztecs etc. just because it was a common belief during the time of Columbus doesn't mean that the whole world always believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth before that time.

 

[Majikthise]

Is there an afterlife?

I can't say for sure, no one can. My own personal belief is no. Once your brain ceases fuction it's lights out. This doesn't mean I'm going to rape and pillage my way through life or consider only my own wants and needs. The reason for this is that I realise there are consquenses in the here and now that I know I would find quite unpleasent to say the least if I were to exhibit the aformentioned behavior. And even though I was raised a christian I can honestly say that it was not a factor I consider relevent. The only benefit I am thankful for is the ability to understand a christian veiw of the world. But then again maybe not ,as my heart was never really in it.

I personally believe there is and that this life has a point and isn't just about growing and growing and growing only one day to be toppled into non existence.

In my studies I have learned that Hindus believe that the ultimate goal for man to achieve is to break the cycle of reincarnation and cease to exist, while for a great many others it is the ultimate goal to live forever. What do you think the ultimate goal is for man?

Man's ultimate fate could be to simply overpopulate this rock until no amount of "getting along" will avert near human (and possibly animal and plant) extinction through some voluntary or involuntary catastrophy.
I think man's ultimate goal should be what it always has been. Territorial ,scientific and intellectual exploration to the limits of our abilities is the goal to which we need to strive. Religion has it's place in all this too and I think it should stay.
Stay out of the way.

 

[Looncall]

really? I'm sorry I can't quite say I read that in any of my studies, do you have any references?

You know it is really fascinating learning about how educated a great many of the early civilizations were when it comes to Astrology. For Example the people who built Stone Henge, The Myans, The Aztecs etc. just because it was a common belief during the time of Columbus doesn't mean that the whole world always believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth before that time.

I very much hope you mean astronomy. No-one is educated about astrology: one can only be a victim of astrology.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I very much hope you mean astronomy. No-one is educated about astrology: one can only be a victim of astrology.

Yes, astronomy, thank you for the correction.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Is there an afterlife?

I can't say for sure, no one can. My own personal belief is no. Once your brain ceases fuction it's lights out. This doesn't mean I'm going to rape and pillage my way through life or consider only my own wants and needs. The reason for this is that I realise there are consquenses in the here and now that I know I would find quite unpleasent to say the least if I were to exhibit the aformentioned behavior. And even though I was raised a christian I can honestly say that it was not a factor I consider relevent. The only benefit I am thankful for is the ability to understand a christian veiw of the world. But then again maybe not ,as my heart was never really in it.






Man's ultimate fate could be to simply overpopulate this rock until no amount of "getting along" will avert near human (and possibly animal and plant) extinction through some voluntary or involuntary catastrophy.
I think man's ultimate goal should be what it always has been. Territorial ,scientific and intellectual exploration to the limits of our abilities is the goal to which we need to strive. Religion has it's place in all this too and I think it should stay.
Stay out of the way.

I take it you completely ignored my Hitler statement.

As I have explained If there is no afterlife justice is just a figment of our imagination, and if that is so for justice the same goes for good and evil.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I take it you completely ignored my Hitler statement.

As I have explained If there is no afterlife justice is just a figment of our imagination, and if that is so for justice the same goes for good and evil.

It's frightening to think there are people who need the promise of reward, or the threat of punishment, in order to do the right thing. Downright scary.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

It's frightening to think there are people who need the promise of reward, or the threat of punishment, in order to do the right thing. Downright scary.

there is no right thing without an afterlife.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

there is no right thing without an afterlife.

All I can say is, thank goodness you believe in an afterlife if you would be running around killing people if you didn't. If believing in fairy tales will keep some people from acting like dangerous lunatics, then I'm glad we have fairy tales for them to believe in.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

you have no more room to say that there being an afterlife is a fairy tale than I have in saying there being no afterlife is a fairy tale.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

you have no more room to say that there being an afterlife is a fairy tale than I have in saying there being no afterlife is a fairy tale.

Either way, I'm glad you have something to keep you from acting like a deranged psychopath, since you apparently don't have the ability to do the right thing on your own. Phew.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Either way, I'm glad you have something to keep you from acting like a deranged psychopath, since you apparently don't have the ability to do the right thing on your own. Phew.

again what right thing? there would be no such thing as right and wrong.
Everything just happened by accident and
Why would it be any more ethically wrong to kill a person than melt a snowflake?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

again what right thing? there would be no such thing as right and wrong.
Everything just happened by accident and
Why would it be any more ethically wrong to kill a person than melt a snowflake?

Exactly, thank goodness you have a book to tell you what's right and wrong. Otherwise we'd be in trouble.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Exactly, thank goodness you have a book to tell you what's right and wrong. Otherwise we'd be in trouble.

So you agree with me, that there is no such thing as right and wrong unless there is an afterlife?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So you agree with me, that there is no such thing as right and wrong unless there is an afterlife?

Sure... for people with no sense of empathy.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

So you agree with me, that there is no such thing as right and wrong unless there is an afterlife?

What if the afterlife has nothing to do with how we conduct our life as there is no punishment or reward attributed to it? It makes no difference to you if you were a mass murderer or lived your life free from the most insignificant misdemeanour, the result would be the same. Would only certain versions of an afterlife make right and wrong important?

IMO there would be such a thing as right and wrong in this life in the absence of an afterlife. That is why we have the law. I can get so drunk at the pub and I will not drive home out of a fear of punishment in the afterlife or being dammed in Hell but the consequences of either having an accident or getting caught by the police.

 

[Majikthise]

I take it you completely ignored my Hitler statement.

As I have explained If there is no afterlife justice is just a figment of our imagination, and if that is so for justice the same goes for good and evil.

Didn't have to ignore the hitler thing , I've heard it before , considered it and it is BS. Justice is elusive and takes alot of work to come to fruition and sometimes is never achieved. But to rely on supernatural forces to do the work for you I just find lazy. "You know what" happens and we all have to deal with it in our own way.