The dentist comparison was a joke.
Although.....sex can involve specialized chairs, masks & tools too.
Let's not lose our sense of humor over little difference of opinion.
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Is there anything wrong with prostitution?
- Thread starter nnmartin
- Start date
Although.....sex can involve specialized chairs, masks & tools too.
Let's not lose our sense of humor over little difference of opinion.
Methinks that you speak from reading too many fringe feminista screeds & from a paucity of experience.
So I propose an experiment. Visit every legal brothel in NV, engage a working girl in each, & interview her afterwards.
It will be a tad spendy, but good times await. Let us know the results, eh?
dust1n
Zindīq
Oh, I was kidding, too, you ol' poot. I'm surprised I keep hearing that argument again and again. There are few things that can be said about allllll industries.
Well, I am in transition from Pensacola to Austin at the moment, and should be done by the end of the year. I'll be working on documentaries with a good friend of mine, as we are still looking for various topics to start hashing out. I think an open-minded approach to the topic would be great, though I don't particularly want to engage them in work, per se. The problem is is getting a camera inside these places.
Who you call'n an old "poot", you young whippersnapper!
Don't be so hesitant. There was a cable show recently which showed graphic actual footage of pro & client inside legal NV brothels.
They too interviewed the staff & patrons. Not one complained of being enslaved, btw. As I recall, one gal could make $10K a nite.
Now that's exploitation!
dust1n
Zindīq
Well, if I'm not allotted to believe in written accounts from psychologists who study prostitution, I'm not certainly not going to believe the boob tube. (Pun intended).
dust1n - no one would be so naive as to think that legalizing prostitution would ELIMINATE problems like the ones I mentioned in my previous post. That's as stupid as the assumption that a world without religion would be one without war.
But a society where prostitution was legalized and controlled provides an undeniably SAFER environment for an otherwise INEVITABLE practice. But of course it cannot eliminate other social issues. But it follows logically - if you take away the pimp, and allow a prostitute to become her own boss, then instances of abuse and suffering will undoubtedly become fewer.
Additionally, my other point was on the futility of arguments against the legalization of prostitution. Most of them are rooted in some outdated religious ethic, whose place in our world is being reduced to that of a "quaint foible" in people. When looking at the potential benefit to society as a whole, one cannot deny that legalization of prostitution is a good way to go.
But a society where prostitution was legalized and controlled provides an undeniably SAFER environment for an otherwise INEVITABLE practice. But of course it cannot eliminate other social issues. But it follows logically - if you take away the pimp, and allow a prostitute to become her own boss, then instances of abuse and suffering will undoubtedly become fewer.
Additionally, my other point was on the futility of arguments against the legalization of prostitution. Most of them are rooted in some outdated religious ethic, whose place in our world is being reduced to that of a "quaint foible" in people. When looking at the potential benefit to society as a whole, one cannot deny that legalization of prostitution is a good way to go.
s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
What possible good reasons can there be for outlawing consensual prostitution?
I can think of at least a couple, though I do not consider them strong enough argument to criminalize "free-lance" prostitution in the most general terms.
1) Pimps that dominate whores by intimidation and threat of physical harm, and those that employ very young girls/boys in captive sex/slave trades,
2) Whenever the prostitute is not consensually independent of others to earn an income.
In the first enumerated illustrations, the service providers almost never have the option to quit, or leave their job. Any employee that is essentially a non-contracted hire, should never feel nor be compelled to remain (under duress or not) one minute longer that they please. This is not a moral issue. per se. Its a simple human right of personal choice inherent in us all to freely choose our own directions and destinations of personal volition. No free society should ever endorse nor codify any business arrangement/employment that does not allow for utter and complete freedom of personal choice and independent mobility.
2) Prostitutes must be able to earn their incomes independent of any other controlling interests (similar to caveat above), unless they choose to partner with like-minded people of similar intent. Note again that this position is not derived from any particular religious dogma or imposed morality just as a matter of human and civil liberties in defense of independent personal choice.
Caveats as noted I would not be opposed to legal prostitution being subject to fair trade laws and regulations like many other services/products.
Many other professional trades (plumbers, electricians, physicians, lawyers, construction contractors, etc etc) demand standards of certification, routine re-certification, and regulatory oversight to insure that hacks and wanna-bes lacking both requisite skills and bona fides do not enjoy the equal benefits of rank amateurs, nor otherwise profit unfairly from expert professionals that have dedicated many years in learning and perfecting their respective skilled crafts. Most skill craft professionals are licensed, bonded, and insured as required by regulatory agencies (or at very least) as good business practice in self-promotion/advertisment in seeking new clientele.
We can look today (in the US) to the state of Nevada as a functional modeled example of legalized prostitution. Imperfect as it may be, its a start from which to build upon and improve.
The defensive notion of a victimless crime has it merits too, but even then, presents many exceptions which give pause for further consideration and debate.
If an industry or business that provides a service to consumers has no regulation or oversight, what protections or remedies does an aggrieved or cheated consumer have to pursue in prospective warranty or compensation of loss? What fees/costs/taxes should the State extract in providing such oversights/protections for the providers and consumers alike?
What added protections favoring the general welfare of all would be appropriate? Smoking is current;y banned in most workplaces and public spaces today. Many localities insist that outlets of tobacco, firearms, liquor, and strip joints, and pornography all be some established minimum measured distance from schools, churches, household communities, etc.
Anyway I dont have any particular moral conflicts or objections to legal prostitution whatsoever (noting the previous caveats above as exception). But I am of the opinion that like any other service industry or profession regulations, standards, and oversights of both legal and civil protections and enforcement of same should and must play a significant part in legalizing prostitution as a legitimate trade or profession.
Im not morally opposed to gas stations, per se but I certainly dont want one being built and opened 50 ft from my front door either.
On the other hand, if we could legally ban LDS door-knockers from my neighborhood forever as trade-off for keeping prostitution illegal Id have to think real hard and long about that proposal
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
How does that help the woman though as surely this will make it harder to get customers.
and of course, this is just a blatantly sexist and absurd system.
like saying you can sell drugs but not buy - hence the whole transaction is non-existent in the real legal world.
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
let the women sell ply their trade legally and the police go after the traffickers.
two separate issues.
gseeker
conflicted constantly
I've known many prostitutes through my old job as a bouncer in new Orleans. Even the ones without pimps had major psychological and or drug issues. By allowing prostitution you are allowing people to legally use those in society with mental and emotional issues which compounds the original problems leading to an inescapable lifestyle.
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
so how about those people that have mental and emotional issues doing more regular jobs; should we allow that?
what's the difference anyway?
or is the govt. to be expected to increase Welfare payments to all drug addicts in a bid to curb prostitution.
unlikely and pointless really.
what's the difference anyway?
or is the govt. to be expected to increase Welfare payments to all drug addicts in a bid to curb prostitution.
unlikely and pointless really.
Their problems won't go away by eliminating prostitution.
Besides, NO is a high crime drainage ditch where everyone is troubled, eh?
dust1n
Zindīq
It keeps prostitutes from entering the prison system.
LOL. nnmartin is suddenly concerned about sexism...
Actually not. It doesn't distinguish between female and male prostitutes. Prostitutes (whether male or female) are allowed to sale legally. 'Johns' (whether male or female) are not allowed to purchase legally.
You don't say...
dust1n
Zindīq
Yeah, prostitution and sex trafficking are completely two separate issues. :sarcastic
He has been concerned about it all along.
But his views about women's roll in society appear most unconventional in this forum.
To say that no gender distinction is being made is to ignore the enormous disparate effect.
There are very very few male prostitutes compared to female, so the net effect of your law would be quite sexist.
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dust1n
Zindīq
A woman's roll?! Sounds yummy. :drool:
:sorry1:Yes, quite like laws dictating the actions of a CEO; the net effect disproportionately affects men. Sexist. Also, fishing licenses are innately sexist, since men fish more than women. Continuing on, laws that ban cruelty to animals in movies are sexist since there are more male movie makes than female movie makes.
This is to miss a distinction between prostitution & the other services you cite. The paucity of women who are CEOs or fishermen is a function of culture, & will
evolve over time. But the preponderance of women working as prostitutes is something more fundamental to human nature, & far less subject to societal changes.
Would you argue that it's wrong for lefties to charge that restriction of abortion rights is sexist? The laws needn't specifically apply to just women.
dust1n
Zindīq
"-- It is difficult to estimate the number of persons who currently work, or have ever worked as prostitutes for many reasons including the various definitions of prostitution. National arrest figures range over 100,000. The National Task Force on Prostitution suggests that over one million people in the US have worked as prostitutes in the United States, or about 1% of American women.(1)
-- Average prostitution arrests include 70% females, 20% percent male prostitutes and 10% customers.(2) In the 1990's some cities initiated client arrest programs which raised the percentage of client arrests. A disproportionate number of prostitutes arrested are women of color, and although a minority of prostitutes are women of color, a large majority of those sentenced to jail are women of color. 85-90% of those arrested work on the street though street work accounts for approximately 20% of prostitutes. (Figures vary from city to city.)
-- Percentages of male and female prostitutes varies from city to city. Estimates in San Francisco suggests 20-30% of prostitutes are male; In San Francisco, it has been estimated that 25% of the female prostitutes are transgender.(5) (These figures are not necessarily representative of the gender of prostitutes in general.)"
PENet: Prostitution Issues: Statistics
Hmm. Only about 2-4% of Ceo's are women in the top Forbes Fortune 1000. Couldn't find statistics on all CEO's regarding gender.
LeftishBritInPA
Member
There is nothing inherently wrong with any action in and of itself. It is dependent on context.
When women have no other career options and are forced into prostitution, it is not so much immoral but it reflects poorly on society as a whole that they are forced into such demeaning labor to satisfy patriarchalistic demands. That is that they are forced to exchange their human dignity for money in order to feed their family. However the fault in this case isn't really with the people practising prostitution, but with the patriarchy which forces them into such a position.
On the other hand when people willingly become prostitutes in the context of self-liberation (especially liberation from immoral, reactionary, and authoritarian social constrictions), it becomes empowering and thus, by logical extension, moral.
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Alceste
Vagabond
There's nothing inherently wrong with paying or accepting money in exchange for sex, provided both parties are autonomous, enthusiastic and consenting.
I think efforts to combat human trafficking, sex slavery and abuse should focus on pimps, who often employ coercion, exploitation and violence to ensure compliance, to the degree that the sex can no longer be considered consensual, autonomous or enthusiastic.
Men and women in the sex trade should have greater access to counseling and other health services, since it seems the majority are survivors of childhood abuse.
I think efforts to combat human trafficking, sex slavery and abuse should focus on pimps, who often employ coercion, exploitation and violence to ensure compliance, to the degree that the sex can no longer be considered consensual, autonomous or enthusiastic.
Men and women in the sex trade should have greater access to counseling and other health services, since it seems the majority are survivors of childhood abuse.