You're supposed to be a Libertarian man....
I thought you didn't want the gov't tell you or anyone else what to do with their body?
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Is there anything wrong with prostitution?
- Thread starter nnmartin
- Start date
You're supposed to be a Libertarian man....
I thought you didn't want the gov't tell you or anyone else what to do with their body?
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Ireland is a very small country. People are sold into slavery to work as prostitutes here - lots of them. This exploitation happens all over the world. This appalling abuse cannot be condoned. If it were my daughter, my sister, my cousin that was trafficked, beaten, raped, imprisoned and abused I would stop at nothing to end this human misery.
If you think using prostitutes is fine you are a contributor to this misery. Without people just like you this misery would not exist.
It is shameful, disgraceful and sad.
If you think using prostitutes is fine you are a contributor to this misery. Without people just like you this misery would not exist.
It is shameful, disgraceful and sad.
dust1n
Zindīq
Creation of institutionalized and legally protected brotherls and whore houses which often entrap women, abuse them, etc.
The inevitable spread of STD's which can't not be reasonably regulated to guarantee that STD's won't spread. Liability can't be traced.
Prostitutes almost always end up with a disease, and frequently need treatment for mental health issues such as schizophrenia, psychotic episodes, post-traumatic stress disorder. Many end up disabled and on welfare.
In addition, you would expect to find a surge in global human trafficking. If it's as easy as it is now for men to find minors who are prostitution by force, why would not be easier when the number of legal establishments are established?
Legalized prostitution doesn't stop illegal prostitution...
dust1n
Zindīq
The same way.
dust1n
Zindīq
What's one empirical source that indicates this? Is there any empirical source that indicates the legalization of prostitution actually causes LESS people to get hurt?
dust1n
Zindīq
It's a way to avoid addressing the issue. I think they call it a strawberry man or something.
Wow, notice how you are assuming all prostitutes are females.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Why do you believe the legalization of prostitution entails a rise of illegal activities such as human trafficking, entrapment, abuse, etc?
If both parties acknowledge the risks involved, what is the problem?
Also, what is your stance on cigarettes?
Do you have evidence that prostitution causes schizophrenia and psychotic episodes?
There is empirical data that shows this approach in other arenas of life.
When things are addressed as issues instead of enforced as crimes the out comes are too there empirically speaking.
Reading about Vancouver's Safe injection site and the drop in disease and over doses that have happened there.
Extremes are rarely as simple as they are said.
So....
Another turn to British Columbia....
You might be interested to know about the talks of a Sex Workers Union over the years. Could you imagine what being organized and having health coverage could do for the line of work and those purchasing?
It could be set up so that only legit and legal people, who are healthy, are working the scene membership in said union w/ proof available and this allow the consumer to make a more informed decision about what he or she is getting into (pun intended).
Seems simple enough to me.
YES... there will always be illegal facets of legal activities,
it happens with many many things in the market here on earth.
But... now...
If we can make a better choice for both parties involved who can say what might happen?
dust1n
Zindīq
"This paper investigates the impact of legalized prostitution on human trafficking inflows. According to economic theory, there are two opposing effects of unknown magnitude. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution leads to an expansion of the prostitution market, increasing human trafficking, while the substitution effect reduces demand for trafficked women as legal prostitutes are favored over trafficked ones. Our empirical analysis for a cross-section of up to 150 countries shows that the scale effect dominates the substitution effect. On average, the legalization of prostitution increases human trafficking inflows."
Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking?
The spread of STD's... consider:
"Even if a prostitute is being tested every week for HIV, she will test negative for at least the first 4-6 weeks and possibly the first 12 weeks after being infected. If we assume that he or she takes only 4 weeks to become positive, because there is an additional lag time of 1-2 weeks to get the results back, there will be at best a window period of 6 weeks for a prostitute. The average prostitute services between 10-15 clients per day. This means that while the test is becoming positive and the results are becoming known, that prostitute may expose up to 630 clients to HIV. This is under the best of circumstances with testing every week and a four-week window period. It also assumes that the prostitute will quit working as soon as he or she finds out the test is HIV positive, which is highly unlikely."
Jeffrey J. Barrows, DO
Irrelevant.
Oops, I didn't mean causes. I meant those conditions are common in prostitutes...
STATEMENT with drawn. Here is so info ab out mental health and prostitution..."There is no doubt that the work conditions of
sex work have a significant impact on the mental
health of the involved women. As such, subjectively
experienced social support is correlated with
lower rates of mental disorders. Higher rates of
mental disorders, however, are related to the
subjectively perceived burden associated with that
kind of work. Objectively, it is open violence in and
apart from the work setting, which also significantly
impacts on these womens mental health.
Violence in many forms towards sex workers is a
known problem internationally (16, 20, 3840). But
the factors correlated with an increase in mental
disorders are not evenly distributed over different
work settings and nationalities: mental disorders
are especially prevalent among Swiss women, who
are addicted and work on the streets, and the above
mentioned group of Non-Europeans who are
victims of open violence in particular in but also
apart from their sex work setting. Thus, indoor sex
work is not generally associated with more safety
(41). We assume that women coming from abroad
are more vulnerable for negative effects of sex work
and thus for consecutive mental problems
because they lack important resources: Language
skills to deal with customers, a reliable social
network to receive help and support, and knowledge
of the legal and welfare system. Furthermore,
they often may have debts and cannot afford to
reject customers. Also a history of abuse or coming
from a country where women are suppressed can
possibly impede on their capacity of defending
themselves against (sexual) assaults. This may in
turn encourage customers to behave abusively or
may attract potentially abusive customers. Another
topic is that people with mental disorders are at
higher risk for violence (42), therefore, a vicious
circle between violence and ill mental health is
established."
Full study with empirical evidence for increase of mental health issues in prostitutes over time:
http://www.collegium.ethz.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/ch_pdfs/10_roessler_sexwork.pdf
dust1n
Zindīq
But not prostitution, which reminds me of Revolt's comment earlier that legalization of prostitution would make it like 'going to the dentist' or whatever... with no empirical evidence.
I'm for decriminalization of prostitution for at least prostitutes and probably clients as well.
"One hundred and thirty people working as prostitutes in San Francisco were interviewed regarding the extent of violence in their lives and symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Fifty-seven percent reported that they had been sexually assaulted as children and 49% reported that they had been physically assaulted as children.
As adults in prostitution, 82% had been physically assaulted; 83% had been threatened with a weapon; 68% had been raped while working as prostitutes; and 84% reported current or past homelessness.
We differentiated the types of lifetime violence as childhood sexual assault; childhood physical abuse; rape in prostitution; and other (non-rape) physical assault in prostitution. PTSD severity was significantly associated with the total number of types of lifetime violence (r = .21, p = .02); with childhood physical abuse (t = 2.97, p = .004); rape in adult prostitution (Student's t = 2.77, p = .01); and the total number of times raped in prostitution (Kruskal-Wallace chi square = 13.51, p = .01). Of the 130 people interviewed, 68% met DSM III-R criteria for a diagnosis of PTSD. Eighty-eight percent of these respondents stated that they wanted to leave prostitution, and described what they needed in order to escape...
Eighty-two percent of these respondents reported having been physically assaulted since entering prostitution. Of those who had been physically assaulted, 55% had been assaulted by customers. Eighty-eight percent had been physically threatened while in prostitution, and 83% had been physically threatened with a weapon. Eight percent reported physical attacks by pimps and customers which had resulted in serious injury (for example, gunshot wounds, knife wounds, injuries from attempted escapes).
Sixty-eight percent of these respondents reported having been raped since entering prostitution. Forty-eight percent had been raped more than five times. Forty-six percent of those who reported rapes stated that they had been raped by customers. Forty-nine percent reported that pornography was made of them in prostitution; and 32% had been upset by an attempt to make them do what customers had seen in pornography.
We examined the relation of gender to level of violence experienced in prostitution. The 3 gender groups differed in incidence of physical assault and in incidence of rape. Women and transgendered prostitutes were more likely than men prostitutes to experience physical assaults in prostitution (chi square = 8.96, df = 2, p = .01). Women and transgendered prostitutes were more likely than men prostitutes to be raped in prostitution (chi square = 9.68, df = 2, p = .01)...
Fifty percent of these respondents stated that they had a physical health problem. Fourteen percent reported arthritis or nonspecific joint pain; 12% reported cardiovascular symptoms; 11% reported liver disorders; 10% reported reproductive system symptoms; 9% reported respiratory symptoms; 9% reported neurological symptoms, such as numbness or seizures. Eight percent reported HIV infection. Seventeen percent of these respondents stated that they would choose immediate admission to a hospital for an acute emotional problem or drug addiction or both. Five percent reported that they were currently suicidal.
A drug abuse problem was reported by 75% of these respondents and an alcohol abuse problem by 27%. Duration of the drug or alcohol problem ranged from 3 mo to 30 yr (mean = 6.5 yr; standard deviation = 8.2 yr)."
Prostitution, Violence Against Women, and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder
Are Sex Worker's Unions a guarantee with the legalization of prostitution?
Refer to me last post regarding the intricacies of stopping STD. It isn't simple to have drug tests every once and while and then.. BOOM, everyone is perfectly consented and understands the risks... this is not true. There is no way of knowing that any prostitute or any customer isn't affected with STD directly prior to consummation.
Ok, so where can I see the evidence that the one party involved 'prostitutes' have increased standards of living as a result of the legalization of prostitution, or that the risks involved with prostitution drop in a statistically significant way with legalization?
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The worst thing about prostitution:
The price & the size of the Adam's apple are inversely proportional.
The price & the size of the Adam's apple are inversely proportional.
dust1n
Zindīq
Still waiting for that evidence, despite the empirical evidence I provided a few posts ago that legalization of prostitution DOES increase sex trafficking...
I gave you my opinion.....
[youtube]sZrgxHvNNUc[/youtube]
Oliver - please sir i want some more - YouTube
dust1n
Zindīq
Who's dealing in opinion?
[FONT=Myriad Roman, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-serif;]Again...
"This paper investigates the impact of legalized prostitution on human trafficking inflows. According to economic theory, there are two opposing effects of unknown magnitude. The scale effect of legalized prostitution leads to an expansion of the prostitution market, increasing human trafficking, while the substitution effect reduces demand for trafficked women as legal prostitutes are favored over trafficked ones. Our empirical analysis for a cross-section of up to 150 countries shows that the scale effect dominates the substitution effect. On average, countries where prostitution is legal experience larger reported human trafficking inflows."[/FONT]
Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking? by Seo-Young Cho, Axel Dreher, Eric Neumayer :: SSRN
[FONT=Myriad Roman, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-serif;]Again...
"This paper investigates the impact of legalized prostitution on human trafficking inflows. According to economic theory, there are two opposing effects of unknown magnitude. The scale effect of legalized prostitution leads to an expansion of the prostitution market, increasing human trafficking, while the substitution effect reduces demand for trafficked women as legal prostitutes are favored over trafficked ones. Our empirical analysis for a cross-section of up to 150 countries shows that the scale effect dominates the substitution effect. On average, countries where prostitution is legal experience larger reported human trafficking inflows."[/FONT]
Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking? by Seo-Young Cho, Axel Dreher, Eric Neumayer :: SSRN
Many people write papers pro this & con that.
Sometimes they're insightful. Sometimes they're self abuse.
This isn't something to research. I'm just venturing an opinion.
Besides, I see it as primarily a philosophical position, ie, I favor less
government restriction on voluntary affairs between consenting adults.
The possibility of deleterious effects exists with all human endeavor.
Tis OK that others disagree & have reasons for their positions.
Sometimes they're insightful. Sometimes they're self abuse.
This isn't something to research. I'm just venturing an opinion.
Besides, I see it as primarily a philosophical position, ie, I favor less
government restriction on voluntary affairs between consenting adults.
The possibility of deleterious effects exists with all human endeavor.
Tis OK that others disagree & have reasons for their positions.
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dust1n
Zindīq
I believe that legalizing it will be better.
I saw no argument to convince me otherwise.
And perhaps your definition of "better" is different from mine.
You trust governmental power to do good far more than I do.
I saw no argument to convince me otherwise.
And perhaps your definition of "better" is different from mine.
You trust governmental power to do good far more than I do.
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dust1n
Zindīq
Well since 'better' obviously doesn't mean or entail anything specific anymore...
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
It seems the link between slavery and prostitution is uncontested.
You made a good case dust1n, fair play.
You made a good case dust1n, fair play.