Cordoba
Well-Known Member
Do you know what God knows?
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Is there Free Will in Heaven?
- Thread starter Deicidal Maniac
- Start date
Do you know what God knows?
Adam and Eve knew the difference between good and evil, because God told them it was wrong to eat the fruit, and that they would die if they ate it. It was but a single tree that represented God's perogative to decide for man what is good and bad. By eating from the tree, Adam and Eve were rejecting God's right to rule them, deciding for themselves what is good and bad. Had they not thus sinned, they would not have died. Romans 5:12 shows that death entered the world through the sin of Adam. God did not create the first couple to die. In fact, even after sinning Adam lived 930 years, far longer than we do today. As to our souls, they are mortal, and die when we do (Ezekiel 18:4)
Klaufi_Wodensson
Vinlandic Warrior
Cordoba
Well-Known Member
Lucifer (Satan) was not an angel
Satan was a jinn, created from fire not from light
Jinn are of God's creation who have free will, and that's why Satan was able to disobey God
Klaufi_Wodensson
Vinlandic Warrior
Ah. I had never heard an Islamic view, I had only heard Christian stories of it. Interesting :yes:
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
Danmac said:
So, in heaven, people will sin and not be punished? They'll just be thankful?
As a side question, it seems clear that you have not thought your beliefs through as your latest participation here is post after post of evasive or ludicrous responses to legitimate questions. Does it have a cumulative effect on you each time someone points out an inconsistency in your worldview?
tomasortega
Active Member
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
Beaudreaux said:
Cordoba said:
You have answered my question with an unrelated question. I'll make you a deal. I'll answer your question and in your response to this post you can answer mine.
Do I know what God knows? This question (like the one I asked you) is a "yes or no" question so thats how I'll answer it. I don't believe such a God exists, but if He did then NO, I would not know what he was thinking.
Now back to the question I asked you in the first place.
So, if God knows today that I will not pass the test, is it at all possible that I WOULD pass the test?
tomasortega
Active Member
ah, you answered my above question here...... so you are saying that lucfer was not an angel. ok, then tell me, is there sin in heaven?? if no, then how could lucifer sin in heaven? how could lucifer feel pride and jealousy(sin) unless sin was part of his nature in the first place?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
No.
Dying is not the consequence for having acquired knowledge.
That dying after partaking...does connect the two events.
That the Garden experiment would terminate...
that the garden had served it's usefulness....
does not mean the loss of it.
Man dies...whether he knows good and evil....or not.
Without the knowledge....walking in heaven is not so easy.
You would not know how to conduct yourself.
Danmac
Well-Known Member
I don't expect them to make sense to you if that is what you mean.
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
Danmac said:
That is not what I mean at all. It is not that your thoughts are nonsensical TO ME. It is that they make no sense at all and you have obviously not thought them through.
Your thoughts are nonsensical to me = your thoughts make no sense at all (to me).
See? I can do maths.
Cordoba
Well-Known Member
Right, so as believers don't know what God knows, this issue is irrelevant to our decisions, and our choice between obeying God and disobeying Him
What we need is to do our best to pass the test of life
This point is irrelevant. You don't know what He knows, so what one needs to do is focus on the test, not on what God knows.
He is All-Knowing, but He is also Fair and Just, and He granted us free will, so we need to use it the right way
Cordoba
Well-Known Member
Angels can't sin, but jinn can as they have free will
That is why Satan (Iblis) disobeyed God's Command to prostrate to Adam out of false pride
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
To you. It is only your opinion.
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
The point is completely relevant because how can you choose correctly if it is impossible for you to choose correctly?
So I'll ask again. If God knows right now who will not pass the test (i.e. not choose him), is it at all possible that those people will choose him?
Yay... (for not speaking English)
Cordoba
Well-Known Member
It is not impossible Beaudreaux
You don't know the final choice you will make in life, and whether it is correct or not, like a student does not know whether he gave the right answer in the test until he sees his final grades
The fact that God knows the "grade" you will score does not prevent you from working hard and doing your best to write the right answer
God's Knowledge is unique because He is Eternal, but He is also Just
There is to Him no equivalent
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
Ah, I see. Thank you for answering. To restate, you believe it is possible for a person to "pass the test" even if God knows right now that they will not. So it is possible that God could be wrong about who will pass the test. How do you feel about worshipping a failable God?