Is there proof God can not exist?

[Copernicus]

The only time empirical knowledge would enter the picture would be if it were asserted that some being less than omnipotent were God. That there is little such evidence -- or at least that what evidence exists is utterly unpersuasive -- is true enough, but to me beside the point. I don't think any such being would qualify as "God," but only as a god in the sense that an Egyptian Pharaoh was a god.

What about the lesser gods in polytheistic traditions? I like to define a prototypical god as an intelligent, powerful agency that has absolute, willful control over some aspect of reality (except that it can be trumped by a higher god). God is the god with absolute control over all aspects of reality.

 

[outhouse]

man made religion. but religion doesnt necesarily made God.

man has not made God. but, in fact, if man had his way he would rather that God did not exist, he would rather eliminate God. In fact' if you really study history you'll find that man either philosophically or pragmatically, exists without God. He does the very best he can to eliminate God. He even comes up with theology that says God is dead. And even the people who can't cope philosophically with no God live as if there wasn't any.

For example, you go back to the garden and the first thing that happens in the garden that we know about, apart from walking and talking with God, was sin. Adam and Eve disobeyed God and sinned. What is the very first thing they did immediately after they fell? Immediately Adam and Eve hid themselves from whom? From God.

They began to wish that God didn't exist and that has been a constant thing with men throughout history.

there is historical proof man has made all the gods before the ancient hebrews wrote about their god

I think it would be special pleading to say they are the only ones who got it right

its natural to try and disprove god's because one realizes he only worships a god based on geographic location only and nothing more for the most part.

if you look at "how" our current religions were formed you will find ignorance of the natural world around them. Just the opposite of your statement most people want to believe in a fantasy because it promises something no man can or has to deliver.

everyone wants a present for living a good life and its easy to promise if you dont have to deliver. At the end of a mans life when all is lost,,,, knowing you will go on is one heck of a gift. The fear of loosing everything drives religion and belief and faith in something not one person on the planet knows anything about.

 

[Frank Merton]

What about the lesser gods in polytheistic traditions? I like to define a prototypical god as an intelligent, powerful agency that has absolute, willful control over some aspect of reality (except that it can be trumped by a higher god). God is the god with absolute control over all aspects of reality.

I think you are right here, and don't see where that disturbs where I am.

Let me rephrase a little; the refinement of the way I express my view is that there are two kinds of "god," one with a capital "G" and one without. The kind of god with a capital "G" is of the omnipotent sort and logically impossible; the ones without are "lesser gods" and subject to empirical test, which they tend to fail.

 

[Frank Merton]

The fear of loosing everything drives religion and belief and faith in something not one person on the planet knows anything about.

This accusation -- more often expressed as people believing because they are afraid of death -- is often made against believers, but it falls on deaf ears.

The reason is because the person so accused knows they don't particularly fear death (people fear dying much more than actual death). Even if they do fear death, they don't see it as the reason for their belief.

The reasons people hold onto faith, sometimes even in spite of rational argument, is because it is a faith. That often they will die for their faith testifies that it is not fear of death involved.

Where faith comes from is another matter. Believers will say it is a gift from God. I would say it comes mainly from childhood.

 

[ellenjanuary]

This accusation -- more often expressed as people believing because they are afraid of death -- is often made against believers, but it falls on deaf ears.

The reason is because the person so accused knows they don't particularly fear death (people fear dying much more than actual death). Even if they do fear death, they don't see it as the reason for their belief.

The reasons people hold onto faith, sometimes even in spite of rational argument, is because it is a faith. That often they will die for their faith testifies that it is not fear of death involved.

Where faith comes from is another matter. Believers will say it is a gift from God. I would say it comes mainly from childhood.

My faith comes from some fool sticking a gun in my face, trying to take "something of Gwynnie" from me... I was 37.

 

[Frank Merton]

I've had two guns and a knife sticking at me in robberies in my life; somehow it never generated any faith except that I didn't need the money.

 

[ellenjanuary]

I've had two guns and a knife sticking at me in robberies in my life; somehow it never generated any faith except that I didn't need the money.

That might be why. I have little problem forking over some scratch; robbery is not necessary. But I had this CD player that "kinda came from Gwyneth Paltrow?" And it wasn't until there was this gun in my face that I was like, pry my Gwynnies from my cold, dead fingers... I used to be rational...

 

[Magic Man]

There is a lot of similar threads. I want to ask a slightly different question ( I think it is)
I am familiar with the idea that Deity is not necessary. I understand not having proof.
But,
Is there anything that suggests that God is an impossibility?
Is there anything in science that makes it clear that God can not exist and could not have had anything to do with the universe?

I'm a little late, and this might have already been said, but there are things that suggest that some god-concepts don't exist. Also, some god-concepts are internally illogical and therefore can't exist.

 

[TJ73]

I'm a little late, and this might have already been said, but there are things that suggest that some god-concepts don't exist. Also, some god-concepts are internally illogical and therefore can't exist.

Like what?

 

[Falvlun]

there is historical proof man has made all the gods before the ancient hebrews wrote about their god

I think it would be special pleading to say they are the only ones who got it right.

While it makes sense to be skeptical of one more god-concept in the wake of a litany of "made-up" god-concepts, I don't think it is automatically or necessarily special pleading to claim that humans might have gotten it right in a specific case.

For example, is it special pleading to claim that the theory of evolution is the correct interpretation of the development of life on Earth? Afterall, there were multiple life-creation stories before that, all made up by people to explain their existence.

 

[outhouse]

For example, is it special pleading to claim that the theory of evolution is the correct interpretation of the development of life on Earth?

when something is fact as gravity, it is not special pleading at all. Evolution is both fact and scientific theory.

creation story is a myth

there were multiple life-creation stories before that

there were creation myths made up for what the ancient man did not know. [which was allot]

all made up by people to explain their existence.

correct "'all made up"


ignorance alone played a part in the creation of deitys and myths in the past in my opinion

 

[Quagmire]

It's not possible to demonstrate non-existence. There's (literally) no such thing.
It's not possible to demonstrate an impossibility. If you did, it couldn't be an impossibility.

Edit: I'd like reword that last line: It's not possible to demonstrate impossibility. That would be impossible.

But..you just did.

Wait, if you just did, than it isn't impossible, in which case you didn't demonstrate an impossibility, which would indicate that it actually is impossible to demonstrate impossibility, which would mean that your demonstration was valid, thereby invalidating your demonstration, thereby validating it.

Ah! And I thought this was going to be complicated.

 

[Morpheus]

A rock does not know/understand a plant - they are on different levels of consciousness.
A plant does not know/understand an animal - they are on different levels of consciousness.
A human does not know/understand God (whatever that is) - they are on different levels of consciousness.

 

[Falvlun]

when something is fact as gravity, it is not special pleading at all. Evolution is both fact and scientific theory.

creation story is a myth

there were creation myths made up for what the ancient man did not know. [which was allot]

correct "'all made up"

ignorance alone played a part in the creation of deitys and myths in the past in my opinion

Do you not see that you are doing what exactly you accuse the opposite party of doing?

You say "This is the right way" even though humans have conceived hundreds of wrong ways before. But, you say that it is not allowed for someone else to say "This is the right way" because there have been hundreds of wrong ways previously conceived.

 

[outhouse]

You say "This is the right way" even though humans have conceived hundreds of wrong ways before

doesnt matter about the ignornace in the past.

we figured out what really happened now and we are on the right path! away from myths to fill in the gaps of knowlegde religion has forced down our throats!

all the wrong ways in the past have been because of religious beliefs that is still fighting for ignornace to reign. '

At what point does a society put primitive thinking behind them and stop using myths and imagination to fill in gaps in knowledge????? because sadly it hasnt happened yet and I want to know!

 

[Falvlun]

doesnt matter about the ignornace in the past.

we figured out what really happened now and we are on the right path! away from myths to fill in the gaps of knowlegde religion has forced down our throats!

all the wrong ways in the past have been because of religious beliefs that is still fighting for ignornace to reign. '

At what point does a society put primitive thinking behind them and stop using myths and imagination to fill in gaps in knowledge????? because sadly it hasnt happened yet and I want to know!

Ok, so you admit that you can be wrong a hundred times before, and then get it right at some point.

 

[outhouse]

Ok, so you admit that you can be wrong a hundred times before, and then get it right at some point.

science hasnt had evolution wrong, nor will evolution ever be wrong.

I only admit religion has had science wrong because it poked its neck into something it should have never been messing with. And truth be told it started out fine because the authors never intended a literal translation. Religion messed that all up. NOT SCIENCE.

 

[outhouse]

and then get it right at some point.

do you have a problem with reason and reality???

 

[Twilight Hue]

The problem is proving something that is for all intents and purposes completely and utterly silent from which any and all nuances regarding God comes only from human beings and nowhere else. Consequently the ongoing challenges proposed for the existence of, and the non-existence of any manner of deity still originate* and are debated by human sources without interjection from other sources (Namely the God in question). That alone should profoundly tell something.

*originate being the key word here

 

[Copernicus]

The problem is proving something that is for all intents and purposes completely and utterly silent from which any and all nuances regarding God comes only from human beings and nowhere else. Consequently the ongoing challenges proposed for the existence of, and the non-existence of any manner of deity still originate* and are debated by human sources without interjection from other sources (Namely the God in question). That alone should profoundly tell something.
*originate being the key word here

That is a very popular way to look at the question. In reality, though, we never demand that kind of proof to back up our beliefs about other things in the world. One can believe in the possibility of the existence of banshees and still believe that they do not exist. In other words, the argument for the existence of gods is as empirical as the argument for the existence of banshees. Both are likely mythical beings, but most adults in our world believe that gods are the more plausible beings. Atheists believe that gods are implausible beings, and they can give you lots of reasons why they believe that.