searcher63
Member
Yes, your right NETDOC. I do see the death of over 3 million innocent men, women, and children as a "negative".NetDoc said:
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Is Trinity in the Bible?
- Thread starter Yasin
- Start date
searcher63
Member
]searcher63 said:
My bad. That should have read 6 million, not 3 million.
Yasin
Member
Hi again,dawny0826 said:
The concept of Trinity has always been a topic, that needs clarification. First of all there is no verse in the Bible that you can quote to me, that concludes such a doctrine. Jesus (pbuh) never in his life time preached it, nor believed in it, If he had, under the jewish law he would be a blasphemer, and once again how could he have when he came to confirm the law, so how could he preach such a doctrine?
Respectively, Yasin:bounce
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Hi Yasin.Yasin said:
I really don't need any clarification. No, you will not find ONE single verse which states the WORD Trinity. I won't argue that. The Trinity is simply a word applied to the concept of God in three persons. If you aren't a Christian...I would imagine it's pretty difficult to understand how that concept applies within the Bible. My Bible, when I read it...tells me that man was so sinful and God loved us so much that he sent his Son...(or himself manifested as man) to live and to TEACH us HOW to live. Jesus Christ became the ULTIMATE sacrifice for US...and it was God's design that when we be believe in Christ...we are granted eternal life and are granted the HOLY Spirit of God who then resides within us...THREE separate manifestations...yet THREE manifestations of the SAME God.
I'm completely comfortable with the Trinity. It's not something I feel so much in my mind as I feel in my very CORE. Many will argue with this...but unless you truly open your heart and READ the BIBLE...I feel that you're going to search for a WORD that you'll never find...and you're going to miss the entire purpose that God has for your salvation. That's just my opinion. I'm not a "Trinitarian Theologian"...I'm a CHRISTIAN.
These are JUST a few verses from the bible where the Trinity concept as far as I'm concerned is implied...I'm sure MANY will disagree but as MANY have stated...I'm entitled to my own interpretations...These all come from the New King James Version.
"I and My Father are one." John 10:30
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that he might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Speak these things, exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you." Tit. 2:11-15
"But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life, And on some have compassion, making a distinction but others save with fear pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh." Jude Verses 20-23
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, these things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His spirit who dwells in you." Rom. 8:1-11
(Sorry...couldn't help but to get a little underline happy there...this is one of my favorite verses in the Bible.
)"Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him: but some doubted. And Jesus came to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen." Matthew 28:16-20
"Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy, he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us abundantly through our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men." Tit. 3:1-8
I didn't get a chance to respond to one of your posts in another thread. Glad I got a chance to say hello. Peace and Blessings,
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Hello, dawny.dawny0826 said:
In John 17:13-23, we read an account of Christ's great intercessory prayer: "And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."
(Gotta love that underlining, huh?)
What I am interested in knowing is how you interpret the underlined phrase in Christ's prayer. Do you believe that He was asking His Father to make His followers become part of the Trinity? It seems to me that the word "as" in that phrase seems to mean "in the same way as." In other words, to me He was saying, "...that they may be one in the same way as we are one." If that is the case, He would be refering to their unity of will and purpose, not a physical unity. How could we all become part of a single invisible substance? I don't follow your reasoning here, I guess.
Kathryn
Yasin said:
1 John 5:5
5. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6. ¶ This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10. ¶ He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
In verse 7 the
and Jesus are synonymous
John 1:14
14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Does this do it?
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Great Scripture Benjosh... Frubals on your head!
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I agree:dawny0826 said:Amen, brother! I'm going to highlight these...
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
But what we really need to decide is what this means. In what way are the Father, Son and Holy Ghost "one"? Does the Bible say they are "one substance"? If it does, could you show me where?
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Hey there!Katzpur said:Hello, dawny.
In John 17:13-23, we read an account of Christ's great intercessory prayer: "And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."
(Gotta love that underlining, huh?)
What I am interested in knowing is how you interpret the underlined phrase in Christ's prayer. Do you believe that He was asking His Father to make His followers become part of the Trinity? It seems to me that the word "as" in that phrase seems to mean "in the same way as." In other words, to me He was saying, "...that they may be one in the same way as we are one." If that is the case, He would be refering to their unity of will and purpose, not a physical unity. How could we all become part of a single invisible substance? I don't follow your reasoning here, I guess.
Kathryn
Well, this is how the verse reads in my Bible...
"I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." John 17:23
I believe that the "one" is referring to the Body of Christ...I do see the Trinity in this verse...because I kow that we are made perfect in God through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour who was One with God and the Holy Spirit...which is a manifestation of God...
When I praise and pray...I don't differentiate between the three...I KNOW that the Holy Spirit resides within me. I KNOW that I SHOULD pray in the name of Jesus Christ and I know that when I do so...GOD is there...Within ME...
(And around and around we go...
)that they may be one in the same way as we are one
I interpret that exactly as it's stated...the "WE" is Christ and God who are one...I don't understand why that's so hard to understand...I can't see it any other way.
How could we all become part of a single invisible substance?
I truly, truly feel that it's SOOO possible for us to be part of that precious "invisible substance"...who I believe is God Almighty, my Heavenly Father. And it was HIS design that we believe in HIS son who HE is ONE with...and through HIS SON...we can have a relationship with our Heavenly Father. And when we ACCEPT Christ...we're given the Precious Gift of the Holy Spirit which is a manifestation of God within us. Again...God in three persons...Father, Son and Holy Spirit....Trinity...Trinity...Trinity...:bounce
Is God invisible? To my eyeballs...yeah. But not at all to my heart. And I love him so much and am so thankful for Christ and the beautiful Spirit that resides within me and guides and directs me in my ways...to say I'm in AWE...is truly an understatement...so, you know...Trinity is just a WORD...I believe it to be truth because I experience it EVERY SINGLE day of my life. I don't KNOW it as much as I LIVE by it.
I'm not the brightest crayon in the box, by any means...but you know...(insert gal shrugging right about here)
And anyway...I do strive to walk by faith...not by sight...
7 For there are three witness bearers, 8 the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement. 1 john 5;7-8 now thats more like it, lets get it right according to how it should be .... adding words to the bible is not a good thing to do it misleads people into believing a lie should as the trinity teaching
After "witness bearers" אABVgSyh,p omit the words added in later Gr. mss and Vgc, namely: "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one. (8) And there are three witness bearers on earth
After "witness bearers" the cursive mss No. 61 (16th century) and No. 629 (in Latin and Greek, 14th to 15th century) and Vgc add the words: "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one. (8) And there are three witness bearers on earth." But these words are omitted by אABVgSyh,p. oh dear adding to the inspired word of God does not go well with the true God Jehovah. still not everyone is led along to believe lies added to the bible
After "witness bearers" אABVgSyh,p omit the words added in later Gr. mss and Vgc, namely: "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one. (8) And there are three witness bearers on earth
"For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement."1Jo 5:7, 8.
This rendering is in agreement with the Greek texts by C. Tischendorf (eighth ed., 1872); Westcott and Hort (1881); Augustinus Merk (ninth ed., 1964); José María Bover (fifth ed., 1968); United Bible Societies (third ed., 1975); Nestle-Aland (26th ed., 1979).
After "witness bearers" the cursive mss No. 61 (16th century) and No. 629 (in Latin and Greek, 14th to 15th century) and Vgc add the words: "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one. (8) And there are three witness bearers on earth." But these words are omitted by אABVgSyh,p. oh dear adding to the inspired word of God does not go well with the true God Jehovah. still not everyone is led along to believe lies added to the bible
dawny0826 said
YOU GOT THAT RIGHT !
How about if experiencing the trinty is not just in every day of your life but in every cell of your body?
That's what the D&C says. RLDS 85:6c. for, notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again a spiritual body: they who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body, which was a natural body: even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened. 6d. Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory, shall then receive of the same, even a fullness;
ANd what's happening in celestial glory? WHo's there?
D&C 76:7r. . . . when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work, when he shall deliver up the kingdom and present it unto the Father spotless, saying:
7s. I have overcome and have trodden the wine press alone, even the wine press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God; then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign for ever and ever.
7t. But, behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore, and heard the voice of the Lord saying:
7u. These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne for ever and ever; 7v. for they shall be judged according to their works; and every man shall receive according to his own works, and his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared, and they shall be servants of the Most High, but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.
In other words, celestial glory is being in the presence of the Three in One.
You have just had a micro-course in Three-ol- ogy 101
BenJosh
I believe that the "one" is referring to the Body of Christ...I do see the Trinity in this verse...because I kow that we are made perfect in God through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour who was One with God and the Holy Spirit...which is a manifestation of God...
When I praise and pray...I don't differentiate between the three...I KNOW that the Holy Spirit resides within me. I KNOW that I SHOULD pray in the name of Jesus Christ and I know that when I do so...GOD is there...Within ME...
(And around and around we go...
that they may be one in the same way as we are one
I interpret that exactly as it's stated...the "WE" is Christ and God who are one...I don't understand why that's so hard to understand...I can't see it any other way.
How could we all become part of a single invisible substance?
I truly, truly feel that it's SOOO possible for us to be part of that precious "invisible substance"...who I believe is God Almighty, my Heavenly Father. And it was HIS design that we believe in HIS son who HE is ONE with...and through HIS SON...we can have a relationship with our Heavenly Father. And when we ACCEPT Christ...we're given the Precious Gift of the Holy Spirit which is a manifestation of God within us. Again...God in three persons...Father, Son and Holy Spirit....Trinity...Trinity...Trinity...:bounce
Is God invisible? To my eyeballs...yeah. But not at all to my heart. And I love him so much and am so thankful for Christ and the beautiful Spirit that resides within me and guides and directs me in my ways...to say I'm in AWE...is truly an understatement...so, you know...Trinity is just a WORD...I believe it to be truth because I experience it EVERY SINGLE day of my life. I don't KNOW it as much as I LIVE by it.
I'm not the brightest crayon in the box, by any means...but you know...(insert gal shrugging right about here)
And anyway...I do strive to walk by faith...not by sight...
YOU GOT THAT RIGHT !
How about if experiencing the trinty is not just in every day of your life but in every cell of your body?
That's what the D&C says. RLDS 85:6c. for, notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again a spiritual body: they who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body, which was a natural body: even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened. 6d. Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory, shall then receive of the same, even a fullness;
ANd what's happening in celestial glory? WHo's there?
D&C 76:7r. . . . when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work, when he shall deliver up the kingdom and present it unto the Father spotless, saying:
7s. I have overcome and have trodden the wine press alone, even the wine press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God; then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign for ever and ever.
7t. But, behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore, and heard the voice of the Lord saying:
7u. These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne for ever and ever; 7v. for they shall be judged according to their works; and every man shall receive according to his own works, and his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared, and they shall be servants of the Most High, but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.
In other words, celestial glory is being in the presence of the Three in One.
You have just had a micro-course in Three-ol- ogy 101
BenJosh
Hi, I was just wondering how everyone who is quoting NT scripture as a basis for belief in trinity, account for the fact that the disciples of Jesus (who didn't have NT) also did not believe in trinity, or even in the divinity of Jesus for that matter. Before you can believe that G-d and Jesus are the same being, you must believe he is divine! This was not established until 325 A.D.
sushannah said:
I don't think there is any argument that there are references to the trinity in the bible; I think we all accecpt that there are merely suggestions that could be interpreted, upon latter examination. I take it you are not a 'Trinitian' ?