Is Trump dishonest?

[idav]

How can you so easily agree that there could be flaws in the system, but then make such a definitive claim?

Anyways, not everyone agrees with you.

I'll refer you to volume 36 of the journal titled, "Electoral Studies - An International Journal on Voting and Electoral Systems and Strategy" in the section titled "Do non-citizens vote in U.S. elections?"

It can be found here - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261379414000973

They calculate that up to 2.8 million non-citizens may have voted in the 2008 election.

They also claimed that, "We find that there is reason to believe non-citizen voting changed one state's Electoral College votes in 2008, delivering North Carolina to Obama, and that non-citizen votes have also led to Democratic victories in congressional races including a critical 2008 Senate race that delivered for Democrats a 60-vote filibuster-proof majority in the Senate."

Who knows how many more non-citizen voters we had eight years later and how that would have impacted the primary vote.

Republicans do far more gerrymandering and unnecessary voter purging based on race and democrat demographics. Only citizens can vote so to suggest undocumented immagrants can even get passed a voter line is kinda funny but I welcome a full California voter audit. If any voter fraud happened it was in Florida where the registry got hacked and voters went to vote finding their names already voted. If any voter fraud happened, trump got the better of the deal.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I would suggestTrump is the most dishonest and corrupt president in the world today...and that is from a fairly long list of vile despots.

I also doubt that he has the wealth he says he has...most will be found to be smoke and mirrors.
When he has gone the empire supporting it will collapse.and take a lot of innocent people with it.

 

[Prestor John]

Republicans do far more gerrymandering and unnecessary voter purging based on race and democrat demographics.

Aw, the classic. "Well, you do it too!" - argument.

If Trump can't defend his immigration "ban" by claiming that Obama did the same thing in 2011 for Iraqi refugees, what makes you think this argument should work for you or anyone else?

Only citizens can vote so to suggest undocumented [immigrants] can even get passed a voter line is kinda funny but I welcome a full California voter audit.

Yet I have supplied proof that non-citizens have voted in past elections.

Why are you choosing to ignore that?

If any voter fraud happened it was in Florida where the registry got hacked and voters went to vote finding their names already voted.

What evidence do you have that support this claim?

If any voter fraud happened, trump got the better of the deal.

Well, he won despite losing California and he would have won even if he had lost Florida.

So, I don't think voter fraud is really even an issue here.

Trump is free to continue to believe that millions of non-citizens voted in this election because it has been proven that millions of non-citizens voted in past elections.

Just because he continues to believe it, that does not mean he is dishonest or that he is lying.

Why am I the only one providing sources to back up my claims?

 

[idav]

Aw, the classic. "Well, you do it too!" - argument.

If Trump can't defend his immigration "ban" by claiming that Obama did the same thing in 2011 for Iraqi refugees, what makes you think this argument should work for you or anyone else?

Yet I have supplied proof that non-citizens have voted in past elections.

Why are you choosing to ignore that?

What evidence do you have that support this claim?

Well, he won despite losing California and he would have won even if he had lost Florida.

So, I don't think voter fraud is really even an issue here.

Trump is free to continue to believe that millions of non-citizens voted in this election because it has been proven that millions of non-citizens voted in past elections.

Just because he continues to believe it, that does not mean he is dishonest or that he is lying.

Why am I the only one providing sources to back up my claims?

Because it has not been proven that voter fraud is in the millions. It hardly ever happens. They even looked at few states after the election. Nothing.

I know voter fraud happens that's beside the point.

Trump claims he should have won California. Yes I remember the results but Trump was miffed about losing the popular vote and made baseless claim that it was illegal voting that did it.

Again if there was such illegal voting going on and there was really fraud he should have looked into it. There is nothing to base the claims on. The barriers that republicans put on minorities makes the claim the impossible.

 

[Prestor John]

Because it has not been proven that voter fraud is in the millions. It hardly ever happens.

That depends on who you ask.

I shared studies that claimed millions of cases of voter fraud happened in both 2088 and 2010.

They even looked at few states after the election. Nothing.

Who is they?

I also shared two sources claiming that there was evidence of noncitizens on the voter registry in two states.

I know voter fraud happens that's beside the point.

If it happens, how can you disregard it?

Trump claims he should have won California. Yes I remember the results but Trump was miffed about losing the popular vote and made baseless claim that it was illegal voting that did it.

He is not dishonest for claiming that though.

Again if there was such illegal voting going on and there was really fraud he should have looked into it.

Why? He won.

That would be a huge waste of time and resources because even if Trump is proven right, that wouldn't change anything.

He'd still be Prez.

There is nothing to base the claims on.

Except evidence from past elections?

The barriers that republicans put on minorities makes the claim the impossible.

Would you mind giving me an example?

 

[Falvlun]

It can be found here - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261379414000973

They calculate that up to 2.8 million non-citizens may have voted in the 2008 election.

Your link isn't working for me- it takes me to the site, but nothing is there and the drop down menus aren't working. Very interested in the article if you wouldn't mind reposting. Everything I've heard about "millions" of illegal votes makes it sound like a laughable unlikelihood, spawned by Trump's inability to accept he lost the popular vote. But, I don't want to be uneducated on the topic.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't think Trump is dishonest, per se. I simply think, like many people, he is a-honest. Whether something is true or not is incidental, and has no intrinsic value one way or the other. In fact, he seems a pretty accurate representation and reflection, overall, of society's perspective on truth and honesty.

News media is reality television, and now we have a reality television president. What relevant part does truth play in any of this?

 

[Prestor John]

Your link isn't working for me- it takes me to the site, but nothing is there and the drop down menus aren't working. Very interested in the article if you wouldn't mind reposting. Everything I've heard about "millions" of illegal votes makes it sound like a laughable unlikelihood, spawned by Trump's inability to accept he lost the popular vote. But, I don't want to be uneducated on the topic.

Hey bro. I didn't think about it before, but the link might not work for anyone not on a Federal server.

I'm at work right now and when I click the link it asks me which department servers I am using then it opens up fine.

I feel dumb for using that source now...

Try this - http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.electstud.2014.09.001

It worked for me at work...but that might not mean much.

I'll try to find a good link when I get home.