Is Trump / MAGA / the US Fascist?

[Estro Felino]

I've noticed that quite a number of people get hooked on semantics and word choice to the point where that becomes a more important issue than the actual issues.

If people don't like Trump, they can vote against him and leave it at that. If the label of "fascist" doesn't really stick to him, is it really that big of a deal, just as long as he loses the election? I fail to understand why so many people are obsessed over words and labels, other than the fact that some people have a shockingly limited vocabulary.

What drives me nuts is that the people who call him fascist probably have never opened a history book in their entire life and they have no idea of Italian history and how the Fascism ended.
They took that term too seriously. Fascism means nothing. It was a very meaningless and folkloric term ...and Italians buried that term.

Mussolini's granddaughter told in an interview:

We are pretty tired of hearing of the word fascism in the 21st century. Fascism was that thing. Period. It ended in 1945. And if my grandfather came back to life, he would be a different man, a modern man of the 21st century.

 

[Estro Felino]

And sometimes the term is correctly applied, eg, Trump.
His self aggrandizing, susceptibility to flattery, self importance,
expectation of loyalty, hostility towards those who don't fete
him, dismissal of lesser people, arrogance, rage when not
getting his way, & love of luxury, are characteristic.

Excuse me, dear sir, but why do you have to use the term fascism?
Why do you have to distort a term that belongs to the history of my country?

Can't you use the term Nazi instead?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It's for that reason that some of us are trying to break that spell, by showing -- as clearly as we're able with nothing but words -- who he really is. Sadly, I think we're failing at that, too.

Look at who you're talking to. They're people who embrace Trump's fascism. It's not a flaw to them. It's what they like about him. You don't see any disavowing him - just the word fascist, which is an acknowledgement that they know that fascism is detestable and despicable to many.

They bristle at being called racist for the same reason. They understand that that is unacceptable to decent people.

Contrast that with calling them Christian, which is not a socially unacceptable demographic in the main. Call a Christian who is all three a Christian, a bigot and a racist, and they don't object to being called Christian. They understand that racism and fascism are wrong in the eyes of decent people but not Christianity, so they object to only two of those terms even though they embrace both unacceptable isms.

Price controls for instance are straight from the communist handbook.

Trump is starting with tariffs. If he wins, you'll be paying them.

The reason that they can be called a tax is because like duty or a fee for government service like court fees, they are a surcharge placed on items you purchase that the American consumer pays to the government.

And here's the rub: the price of American made goods goes up, too. Japan sells a car for $40,000 that a US manufacturer sells its equivalent vehicle for a similar competitive price. Then, Trump places a 60% tariff (he's talking about 200% and 300%) on the import that the dealer pays, who then raises the price of the Japanese car to $64,000. Guess what the American manufacturers do next? They raise the price of their cars to about $60,000, so you actually pay a premium not just for the imports, but also to the domestic manufacturers the tariff allegedly protects.

It's a scam, but you'll have no choice but to pay these surcharges or do without.

if he were an actual Fascist, he'd care more about ...

He's a wannabe fascist. If he gets that power, he'll do what he likes, and you won't like it.

How likely is it that people who offend Trump will, in the event of another Trump
Presidency, end up at the bottom of the river? He can be vengeful, sure, but is there any evidence he’s ever tried to have any of his opponents killed?

Once again, give him that power and immunity, and he'll emulate his role model Putin. His past actions don't predict his future actions, but his past words do.

 

[Revoltingest]

Excuse me, dear sir....

Because you're so polite, you're excused.

....but why do you have to use the term fascism?

The term is under discussion in this thread.

Why do you have to distort a term that belongs to the history of my country?

Why do you have to falsely limit what the term means?
Check English dictionaries to learn its broader definition
than its Italian origin. Language evolves. Accept it.

Oh....I have the answer!
It's a method of deflection from addressing
the many claims by Trump's close associates
that he's a fascist.

Can't you use the term Nazi instead?

Trump isn't a Nazi.
He's a Republican.

 

[Estro Felino]

Because you're so polite, you're excused.

The term is under discussion in this thread.

Why do you have to falsely limit what the term means?
Check English dictionaries to learn its broader definition
than its Italian origin. Language evolves. Accept it.

Oh....I have the answer!
It's a method of deflection from addressing
the many claims by Trump's close associates
that he's a fascist.

It's wrong. Fascism was against free-market capitalism.
It seems to me that Trump advocates for libertarian economy and free-market capitalism.
So...again...whoever calls Trump a fascist has never opened a book of European history in their entire life.

Trump isn't a Nazi.
He's a Republican.

If he is a Republican, it means he is not a fascist either.

 

[F1fan]

No, I'm giving you professional advice as someone who has spent many years dealing with definitions and word meanings. The word "fascist" can have more than one meaning. Let's focus on the one that most people are using, not your version of how you wish to define the word.

Right. And it's not as if a Fascist has to fit every single element of the definition to be "pure". That is what MAGAs are doing to limit the application of Fascism to Trump. Trump may not be a pure fascist, but he shows enough of the elements to cause serious concern about him being back in power.

And it's not just about him. Hitler didn't run Germany by himself. He attracted many like-minded people who as a collaborative effort, and as a criminal conspiracy, created the Holocaust and led the world into global war. The same as with Trump, these MAGAs seem to be willing to justify any actions, using the "ends justify the means" attitude. This is how criimes against humanity begin. They seem ideal and necessary, and one step at a time the good Catholics and Lutheranns of Germany murdered 6 million Jews and millions more of slavic areas of Europe. This is what happens when categories of humans are declared "enemies" of the prefered citizens.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's wrong. Fascism was against free-market capitalism.

Again, you use a definition too narrow for English.

It seems to me that Trump advocates for libertarian economy and free-market capitalism.

It seems wrong. Trump is all about regulation.

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So...again...whoever calls Trump a fascist has never opened a book of European history in their entire life.

This is USA, not Europe.
We speak English, not Italian.

If he is a Republican, it means he is not a fascist either.

The two go together like bacon & eggs hemorrhoids & pain.

 

[F1fan]

What drives me nuts is that the people who call him fascist probably have never opened a history book in their entire life and they have no idea of Italian history and how the Fascism ended.

Hmmm, probably. So you aren't sure. Finally be truthful.

General Kelly knows history. He knows military history. He knows the definition of a fascist, and he can see Trump and MAGA fitting the definition. Trump and MAGAs have been stupidly obviously about their plans, and the plans are extreme and a major departure from democracy and civil policy.

They took that term too seriously. Fascism means nothing. It was a very meaningless and folkloric term ...and Italians buried that term.

Look at you trying to minimize fascism. That's what fascists do when they face pushback.

 

[Estro Felino]

Again, you use a definition too narrow for English.

That's my point.
Some historians have used a term and distorted its original meaning.

We have a tons of English words in Italian too...but never distorted their meaning.

It seems wrong. Trump is all about regulation.

Reg Stats | Regulatory Studies Center | Trachtenberg School of Public Policy & Public Administration | Columbian College of Arts & Sciences | The George Washington University

The charts on this page have been featured in a number of publications. Please contact us if you would like to use these files in your work.

regulatorystudies.columbian.gwu.edu

Can you be more specific?
Give me an example of the regulations and restrictions Trump implemented in US economy. 2017-2020

This is USA, not Europe.
We speak English, not Italian.

Don't use Italian terms, then.
You even use the Italian pronunciation, sc like sh...as in Italian.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's my point.
Some historians have used a term and distorted its original meaning.

Languages adopt foreign words.
And language evolves.
Don't make political arguments
based upon etymological fallacies.

 

[RestlessSoul]

it reminds me a lot of the word "narcissist" - used by many people to describe something they are not really familiar with, but they think they are.

Trump is clearly a malignant narcissist. I’m not personally convinced he’s a fascist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It seems to me that Trump advocates for libertarian economy and free-market capitalism.

Corporatism isn't free market capitalism.

Trump is a big proponent of tarrifs and liked to use his presidential power to enrich his own companies.

 

[Revoltingest]

Trump is clearly a malignant narcissist.

Grandiosity

Grandiosity refers to an exaggerated sense of one’s own importance, abilities, and achievements. It is characterized by an overinflated ego and a belief that one is superior to others.

psychology.tips

 

[Estro Felino]

Corporatism isn't free market capitalism.

Trump is a big proponent of tarrifs and liked to use his presidential power to enrich his own companies.

During Fascism capitalists were beaten up to death by the fascist squads...and a banker was thrown out of the window.

It doesn't seem to me that Trump used these methods, back when he was president.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

This is what happens when categories of humans are declared "enemies" of the prefered citizens.

yes, like trump and his supporters called fascists. Jeez.

 

[Revoltingest]

yes, like trump and his supporters called fascists. Jeez.

When the shoe fits, wear it.

 

[Pogo]

You tied it to specific elements of historical Nazism. I was merely pointing out that, if you want to go back to historical roots, Mussolini is the source. Hitler, Franco, and others were inspired by the Italian movement. They were just copycats. But, OK, Hitler is the internet standard. I get that.



No, I'm giving you professional advice as someone who has spent many years dealing with definitions and word meanings. The word "fascist" can have more than one meaning. Let's focus on the one that most people are using, not your version of how you wish to define the word.



This is a nonsensical argument. Germany had a lot of laws and regulations, not all of which had anything at all to do with fascism. Just because Hitler's Germany had environmental regulations, that does not mean they had anything to do with fascism.

It is those fascists at the EPA that are calling people who dump toxic chemicals in rivers the enemy.

 

[Stevicus]

The problem is that his supporters really fail to grasp anything true about the man. That in itself is a complete mystery, because it's all right out there, for anybody to see. But they don't see. I get the feeling that when he lapses into his "weave" that doesn't ever come together eventually, they feel as if they're being told something mysterious, something "religious" that they accept that they're too small and human to understand -- like the Trinity, I suppose.

It's for that reason that some of us are trying to break that spell, by showing -- as clearly as we're able with nothing but words -- who he really is.

Sadly, I think we're failing at that, too.

Even back when Trump was first elected in 2016, I thought that many of his opponents were taking the wrong approach in trying to dissuade public opinion against him. It was like they were reacting to him, but in the process, they were putting the spotlight on Trump and essentially allowing him to set the tone and agenda. They gave him the initiative. They've been more reactive than proactive.

 

[Estro Felino]

Here is a picture of the US House Chambers. Do you recognize the two fasces on the wall on either side of the podium?
View attachment 99067

Brava. Excellent.
That signifies that the term fascism is folkloric and meaningless, since the fasces are present in countless coats of arms.
They are the symbol of the Governmental Apparatuses.

 

[Pogo]

Here is a picture of the US House Chambers. Do you recognize the two fasces on the wall on either side of the podium?
View attachment 99067

This is America, speak English, those are faggots.