Is Trump Still Proud of Shutting Down the Government?

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Are you specifically claiming that if Trump won't allow re-funding of government even if his demand is met?

I'm claiming that the Democrats do not have the power to reopen government. The most they can do is give Trump what he wants, and that wouldn't reopen government. Trump would still have to keep his promise and make it happen.

What do you think he really wants?

He wants to be seen as all-powerful and able to make the Democrats accede to his will. That's why it is very important that the Democrats don't give him even an inch. The exact opposite needs to happen - Trump bending before the will of the Democrats. Let his base see how impotent their tribal chieftain actually is.

the Republican cowards who bow to the Autocrat-In-Chief's every demand, and then begin to reformat the party back to basic sanity and common decency in or by 2020.

Common decency among the Republican party? I think that that ship sailed decades ago.

People need to stop blaming others, including Trump, for their problems and admit most of their difficulties in life originate with themselves.

Isn't that exactly what Trump is counting on and appealing to with his racist, xenophobic, supremacist dog whistles directed at undereducated, underskilled, white males who blame others for their meager existences?

The Democrats need to show they are serious now about securing our nation's southern border rather than just playing around with partisan party politics.

The wall is itself a partisan political stunt contrived to appeal to Trump's racist base. The Democrats do not need to do anything except what they feel is in the best interests of their constituents, not what Trump demands. It's generally agreed among liberal Americans that there is no border emergency, and that a wall is a bad idea.

There's a Congressional bill in the works in order to help out unpaid government workers by preventing their creditors or landlords from taking legal action against them for unpaid rent, mortgages or loans.

Why not just reopen government? Can anybody give a good reason for not doing so? We're told how many people are being hurt and how much the shutdown is costing.

I doubt Trump would veto any legislation that provide financial relief to unpaid government workers

Trump doesn't care about those people. If he did, he wouldn't be holding them hostage and damaging their lives. He has stated that he thinks that they're mostly Democrats that are being hurt, the implication being that they don't matter. Trump's recent fall in his approval rating and spike in his disapproval rating suggest that he's damaging much of his base as well, who he also doesn't care about, but whose support he needs.

Economically it would have "made sense" for the Democrats to have caved on this one issue

Politically, it makes sense for the Democrats to hold firm.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm claiming that the Democrats do not have the power to reopen government. The most they can do is give Trump what he wants, and that wouldn't reopen government. Trump would still have to keep his promise and make it happen.

What specifically is this promise?

He wants to be seen as all-powerful and able to make the Democrats accede to his will. That's why it is very important that the Democrats don't give him even an inch. The exact opposite needs to happen - Trump bending before the will of the Democrats. Let his base see how impotent their tribal chieftain actually is.

No doubt, many on the other side see Pelosi the same way.

Politically, it makes sense for the Democrats to hold firm.

I agree with this.
But I find it a heinous goal in light of the resulting damage.

 

[metis]

Common decency among the Republican party? I think that that ship sailed decades ago.

Yep, as today's Republican Party certainly ain't the party that my parents and I were part of decades ago. Even a bastion of conservatism like George Will left the party and said in an interview that he "hardly recognizes".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Politically, it makes sense for the Democrats to hold firm.

I agree, in fact it was clear that was my position if my quote was not taken out of context

Here is what I said:

"I agree. Economically it would have "made sense" for the Democrats to have caved on this one issue, except for the fact that if this strategy worked once there would be no end to holding the government hostage."

The use of scare quotes is the first hint. It indicates that one should not take the first part literally. Yes, it would have cost less if the Democrats caved. The latter part explains why it would have been foolish for the Democrats to cave. Trump could simply shut down the government the next time he wanted a specific policy if this strategy worked once. He would hold the goverment hostage when he did not get his way. We agree on this so I do not see why you quoted me in a way that makes it seem as if I was supporting Trump of all people.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Trump has already shifted his position from a $20 billion concrete wall across the entire border to acceptance of a less than $6 billion steel slated barrier across a few hundred miles. How much more compromising do you want than all that's already been done?

"He's offering a horrendously expensive, harmful, and stupid idea now, but he used to want something even more horrendously expensive, harmful, and stupid, so that should make his new idea acceptable!"

 

[Jose Fly]

Essential government work is still getting done, despite the current partial government shutdown.

Some is, and without pay. That's kinda significant.

Also, as I'd mentioned back at post #80, "there's a Congressional bill in the works in order to help out unpaid government workers by preventing their creditors or landlords from taking legal action against them for unpaid rent, mortgages or loans. If this bill passes, there'd be less urgency to end the partial government shutdown until Democrats come to their senses about providing funding that border patrol agents and border law enforcement agents would like to be invested in a border security barrier for making their jobs easier and safer."

That doesn't help with utilities, food, gas, and other expenses.

 

[Jose Fly]

It seems to me that the positions of the two parties are: 1) Democrats have offered over 1 billion for border security (just not a wall) and have offered to re-open the government and then negotiate on border security, 2) Trump's position is he either gets the full 5 billion for the wall or there's nothing to talk about.

So can you really say that Trump is "negotiating" or "deal making"?

 

[Salvador]

"He's offering a horrendously expensive, harmful, and stupid idea now, but he used to want something even more horrendously expensive, harmful, and stupid, so that should make his new idea acceptable!"

65 nations have border security fences, in part to make the jobs of their border patrol agents and law enforcement more safe an effective. For example, Hungary's border barrier has effectively reduced illegal migration there by over 99 percent. So then, border barriers, evidently are neither harmful nor more costly than beneficial.

 

[Salvador]

Some is, and without pay. That's kinda significant.

That doesn't help with utilities, food, gas, and other expenses.

There is an additional legislative proposal to relieve the financial stress of unpaid government workers; this proposal allows them to withdrawal money from their retirement funds without penalty.

 

[Jose Fly]

There is an additional legislative proposal to relieve the financial stress of unpaid government workers; this proposal allows them to withdrawal money from their retirement funds without penalty.

And what about newer employees? Federal contractors?

It'd be far, far, far simpler to just reopen the government and then argue over how best to secure the border.

 

[Salvador]

I'm claiming that the Democrats do not have the power to reopen government. The most they can do is give Trump what he wants, and that wouldn't reopen government. Trump would still have to keep his promise and make it happen.



He wants to be seen as all-powerful and able to make the Democrats accede to his will. That's why it is very important that the Democrats don't give him even an inch. The exact opposite needs to happen - Trump bending before the will of the Democrats. Let his base see how impotent their tribal chieftain actually is.



Common decency among the Republican party? I think that that ship sailed decades ago.



Isn't that exactly what Trump is counting on and appealing to with his racist, xenophobic, supremacist dog whistles directed at undereducated, underskilled, white males who blame others for their meager existences?



The wall is itself a partisan political stunt contrived to appeal to Trump's racist base. The Democrats do not need to do anything except what they feel is in the best interests of their constituents, not what Trump demands. It's generally agreed among liberal Americans that there is no border emergency, and that a wall is a bad idea.



Why not just reopen government? Can anybody give a good reason for not doing so? We're told how many people are being hurt and how much the shutdown is costing.



Trump doesn't care about those people. If he did, he wouldn't be holding them hostage and damaging their lives. He has stated that he thinks that they're mostly Democrats that are being hurt, the implication being that they don't matter. Trump's recent fall in his approval rating and spike in his disapproval rating suggest that he's damaging much of his base as well, who he also doesn't care about, but whose support he needs.



Politically, it makes sense for the Democrats to hold firm.

Border patrol agents and law enforcement officials overwhelmingly support a border security barrier that'd make their jobs safer and their goals of reducing unlawful occupants in America, easier to obtain.

 

[metis]

Border patrol agents and law enforcement officials overwhelmingly support a border security barrier that'd make their jobs safer and their goals of reducing unlawful occupants in America, easier to obtain.

Overstated as the commissioner of the CBP has said he'd rather have more personnel and better technology, but he did not exclude an expansion of the wall in certain more populated areas.

 

[Salvador]

And what about newer employees? Federal contractors?

It'd be far, far, far simpler to just reopen the government and then argue over how best to secure the border.

Federal contractors should also be included in any legislation to ease financial stress on anybody impacted by the partial government shut-down. Legislation to prevent creditors and lenders from taking legal action to collect unpaid rent or bills from unpaid government workers or unpaid government contractors; this legislation should apply to any unpaid government workers or contractors.

 

[Jose Fly]

Federal contractors should also be included in any legislation to ease financial stress on anybody impacted by the partial government shut-down.

"Should be" doesn't help.

Legislation to prevent creditors and lenders from taking legal action to collect unpaid rent or bills from unpaid government workers or unpaid government contractors; this legislation should apply to any unpaid government workers or contractors.

Same thing. Millions of ordinary middle-class people are being seriously harmed by this shutdown, and the longer it goes on the worse it will get.

 

[metis]

I believe that all Congresspeople and the president and his advisers should lose all pay and all benefits until there's a settlement.

 

[Salvador]

Overstated as the commissioner of the CBP has said he'd rather have more personnel and better technology, but he did not exclude an expansion of the wall in certain more populated areas.

Trump's latest border security barrier proposal offers border patrol agents the type of structure, a see-through steel-slated barrier wall, that makes border patrol jobs safer and more effective at keeping unwanted intruders from trespassing into our nation. Also, Trump's latest border security barrier is for 285 miles of border fencing at a cost of less than one tenth of one percent of all federal government spending.

 

[Salvador]

"Should be" doesn't help.

Same thing. Millions of ordinary middle-class people are being seriously harmed by this shutdown, and the longer it goes on the worse it will get.

My concern is to keep unpaid government workers doing their jobs; this can be done with the previously mentioned measures; allowing them to withdrawal money from their retirement funds as well as deferring their financial obligations to pay their loans, mortgages or rent. until they get all their back pay when their government shutdown holiday ends.

The last thing we want is a public uproar from those whose flights get delayed or cancelled from a walk-out of unpaid government workers involved with air travel safety. We want this partial government shutdown to be as painless as possible. Unfortunately, we don't how long it'll take Democratic congressional members to come to their senses for approving border security barrier funding in order to keep the American public as safe as possible from illegal alien criminality.

 

[Salvador]

"Should be" doesn't help.

Same thing. Millions of ordinary middle-class people are being seriously harmed by this shutdown, and the longer it goes on the worse it will get.

Believe you me, Congressional Republicans and the POTUS would like to implement any resolution to make this partial government shut-down as painless as possible, because we don't know how long it's going to take for the Democratic members of Congress to come to their senses that border patrol agents and law enforcement are entitled to have all the possible tools, including a border security barrier, for making their jobs safer and more effective towards keeping illegal alien criminals out of our nation.

 

[Jose Fly]

My concern is to keep unpaid government workers doing their jobs; this can be done with the previously mentioned measures; allowing them to withdrawal money from their retirement funds as well as deferring their financial obligations to pay their loans, mortgages or rent. until they get all their back pay when their government shutdown holiday ends.

The last thing we want is a public uproar from those whose flights get delayed or cancelled from a walk-out of unpaid government workers involved with air travel safety. We want this partial government shutdown to be as painless as possible. Unfortunately, we don't how long it'll take Democratic congressional members to come to their senses for approving border security barrier funding in order to keep the American public as safe as possible from illegal alien criminality.

You're forgetting recent history. On Dec. 19, the Senate passed an appropriations bill that Trump said he would sign. But because it didn't include funding for the wall, Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh lambasted Trump for saying he would sign it. So Trump changed his mind and is now taking the stance that he either gets 100% of what he wants, or there's no deal.

And I'm not engaging in this whole "illegal alien criminality" BS. I'll just note that I'm extremely disappointed to see the Republican Party take such a strong turn to white nationalism.

Believe you me, Congressional Republicans and the POTUS would like to implement any resolution to make this partial government shut-down as painless as possible

"Any resolution" except reopening the government.

 

[Salvador]

I believe that all Congresspeople and the president and his advisers should lose all pay and all benefits until there's a settlement.

The POTUS has already offered to forego his Presidential salary; I'd really like to see that Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez, who has had financial hardships until getting to Congress, go without any pay. This would put more pressure on her than anybody else to approve funding for a border security barrier.