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Is western civilizations plight of the homeless a sad, glaring example of religious hypocrisy?

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I just do not understand how this plethora of spirituality and religion created such apathetic indifference that exasperated thing like greed that created such inhumane poverty.
Totalitarianism like pain is always with us and contributes to poverty more than capitalism ever could. Capitalism is a tool and has to be used correctly and in moderation, but you are putting it forward like an absolute finished stone. Nor is western culture the end of human development, or intended to be so but is a tool against totalitarianism under which the bulk of human life suffered. If we were all living in a kingdom there would be ten times the suffering and especially ten times the hopelessness.

Poverty hasn't decreased. It has only increased.
On what basis do you claim that? The population has increased by a factor of a million, so do not leave that out in order to smear capitalism. Also do not conflate capitalism with western culture. Western culture is about freedom which many people do not believe in -- freedom of what class you want, freedom to make a better life for you children through hard work, choice of what line of work and what level of education according to your ability. The alternative appears to be brainwashing, totalitarianism, permanent classes and other old failing, worse social strategies.
 

Spirosmav

Member
This is in the context of religion and spirituality not conservative, liberal Republican Democrat etc...with the western worlds plethora of religion and spirituality, why did the religious western world allow financial sector deregulation , nafta, Reagan policies brexit and citizens united---all things that made people poor so they couldn't help themselves. How could religious politicians and western religious, spiritual citizenry allow such things that exasperated poverty, creating an economic situation that goes against religious and spiritual tenants such as karma mercy enlightenment peace humility moral code etc



I wrote purposely
 

Spirosmav

Member
Totalitarianism like pain is always with us and contributes to poverty more than capitalism ever could. Capitalism is a tool and has to be used correctly and in moderation, but you are putting it forward like an absolute finished stone. Nor is western culture the end of human development, or intended to be so but is a tool against totalitarianism under which the bulk of human life suffered. If we were all living in a kingdom there would be ten times the suffering and especially ten times the hopelessness.

On what basis do you claim that? The population has increased by a factor of a million, so do not leave that out in order to smear capitalism. Also do not conflate capitalism with western culture. Western culture is about freedom which many people do not believe in -- freedom of what class you want, freedom to make a better life for you children through hard work, choice of what line of work and what level of education according to your ability. The alternative appears to be brainwashing, totalitarianism, permanent classes and other old failing, worse social strategies.



Capitalism is a good thing especially if it assures justice that overrides double standards. Capitalism Is only good if it is complimented with a fair ethical justice system. Without that...there is a type fascism that slowly develops.

I agree.
 

Spirosmav

Member
I like spreading blame where deserved.

Capitalism is a good thing especially if it assures justice that overrides double standards. Capitalism Is only good if it is complimented with a fair ethical justice system. Without that...there is a type fascism that slowly develops.

It is hard to argue the many double standards
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
iu
In the most affluent western countries, It seems that homelessness and extreme poverty grow larger. This poverty is visibly noticeable in the UK, America ,Canada and parts of central Europe.


Western countries are often melting pots of religion and spirituality. With all the different religions and spirituality movements, do you think that there lies hypocrisy that eats at the facade of those who work and engage in apathetic, indifferent professions?



With many world religions and spiritual movements such as new age, do you think that there exists a poverty of humanity that opens up difficult questions about the peaceful, humility and compassion that many religions or spiritual movements claim to advocate

Is homelessness a sad, glaring example of the modern western worlds religious hypocrisy?

Excuse unedited grammar broken sentences
iu
iu
iu

I think that knowledge of the causes of homelessness plus awareness of organizations and government programs available to help the homeless plus the vast size of the problem versus one's own personal resources creates a gulf of meaningful opportunity often mistaken for apathy.
 

Spirosmav

Member
I think that knowledge of the causes of homelessness plus awareness of organizations and government programs available to help the homeless plus the vast size of the problem versus one's own personal resources creates a gulf of meaningful opportunity often mistaken for apathy.


I agree. I can't generalize because there are many interfaith and religious communities that are very altruistic to the poor etc. It is ridiculous that these organizations have to pick up the burden left by such disastrous policies that inflamed the situation. afterall people were once economically independent. I also understand that the economy modernizes so some policies had to be implemented to better suit innovation and competition etc.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Capitalism is a good thing especially if it assures justice that overrides double standards. Capitalism Is only good if it is complimented with a fair ethical justice system. Without that...there is a type fascism that slowly develops.

It is hard to argue the many double standards
Capitalism (like all other economic systems)
is independent of a social safety net.
 

Spirosmav

Member
Capitalism (like all other economic systems)
is independent of a social safety net.


My purposely written post was a faux conspiracy theory post, asking why the plethora of religious, spiritual sects and movements are contrary to things such as mercy humility dignity karma etc etc


It was supposed to be. Americas safety net was implemented after the great depression. Post great recession, Britain has had austerity that has left its economy in a stagnate state. Europe's pensioners were left begging while the piigs countries are still recovering . I
I wrote this purposely to sound like a occupy wall st conspiracy theorist
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It was supposed to be. Americas safety net was implemented after the great depression. Post great recession, Britain has had austerity that has left its economy in a stagnate state. Europe's pensioners were left begging while the piigs countries are still recovering . I
I wrote this purposely to sound like a occupy wall st conspiracy theorist
So you're a fan of political theater, eh?
Woo hoo!
 

Spirosmav

Member
So you're a fan of political theater, eh?
Woo hoo!


Conspiracy theorist like political theatre. They are crazy enough to believe that 2016 American elections were purposely rigged and that trump was elected so the tax cuts could be implemented and that futher wars could be condoned. Like I said, It is not about politics...republican Democrat conservative Democrat...and all things that get people weird and disturbingly excited.

I wrote this purposely to sound like a conspiracy theory
 
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icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
In the most affluent western countries, It seems that homelessness and extreme poverty grow larger. This poverty is visibly noticeable in the UK, America ,Canada and parts of central Europe.

I would attribute this to bad, short-sighted, myopic leadership.

I seem to recall that in Utah they decided to provide small apartments for all of their homeless population, and not only is it compassionate and a boon to the homeless, it's also cheaper than doing nothing. The reason is that society pays (in various ways like ER visits), for the homeless.
 

Spirosmav

Member
I would attribute this to bad, short-sighted, myopic leadership.

I seem to recall that in Utah they decided to provide small apartments for all of their homeless population, and not only is it compassionate and a boon to the homeless, it's also cheaper than doing nothing. The reason is that society pays (in various ways like ER visits), for the homeless.


Believe it or not, there has been a trend of homeless people purposely committing crimes to get out of the elements. During polar vortexes and heat waves, it is not uncommon for the homeless to break a window or commit a crime to get a bed. This is a problem. the cost of incarcerating a homeless who purposely commits a crime could cost $30,000 to $60,000 annually...depending on where the reside. Most of the homeless had clean records before committing these crimes of desperation... a homeless can freeze or save their life by purposely committing a crime...
 

Spirosmav

Member
I would attribute this to bad, short-sighted, myopic leadership.

I seem to recall that in Utah they decided to provide small apartments for all of their homeless population, and not only is it compassionate and a boon to the homeless, it's also cheaper than doing nothing. The reason is that society pays (in various ways like ER visits), for the homeless.


There solution may be cheaper than the annual incarceration cost that can range from $30,000 to $60,000 annually including court costs personnel etc
 

GreenpeaceRECo-operative

Darwin and others missed George Fox of the Quakers
Western countries are often melting pots of religion and spirituality. With all the different religions and spirituality movements, do you think that there lies hypocrisy that eats at the facade of those who work and engage in apathetic, indifferent professions?





Is homelessness a sad, glaring example of the modern western worlds religious hypocrisy?

Well, simply put, yes. However, it isn´t quite that simple I´m happy to be clear about. The long rise of Christian Western Civilization took place with a dynamic tension between two main groups, the Church and its higher degrees of hypocrisy and lower of integrity, and the monasteries with their relatively higher levels of integrity. The monastic/cathedral schools developed the first Universities. Rousseau wrote about the origins of inequality in the 1700s, whereas George Fox, founder of the Quaker Christians in the 1600s, has to be one of the more advanced thinkers of social justice in the world outside of any reformist Franciscan order, in a general sense anyway.

Modern society reflects the rise of business using the profiteering business model like the British East India Co. and the rise of Arkwright´s factory model. Robert Owen asserted his consciousness of worker welfare, and inspired efforts to form co-opeative (co-ownership) enterprises until the first successful modern one by 28 workers led by C Howarth in Rochdale in the 1840s including several types of Christians. The Working Man´s College was founded by Christian Socialist Minister FD Maurice in the 1850s. All that made Marx and Engels´ critiques amenable to practical action and the better balance of Christianity. William Greider wrote about Emil Brunner as part of the Social Gospel movement in the 1800-1900s in the US with Walter Rauschenbusch and others. However, the Cold War and anti-communist militarist propaganda combined with economic propaganda to make life difficult for critics of Big Business.

The UN conferences have stimulated Global People´s Fora for NGOs, and then the independent World Social Forum and Solidarity Economics. Liberation Theology is associated with the Brazilian Landless Workers Movement MST that was a leader in founding the WSF.

By the 1980s, the election of Reagan and Michael Milken´s hijinks lead to a "greed is good" ideology in the US, with right-wing think tanks inspired by M Friedman´s free market economics and statement, "Profit is the Social Responsibility of Business." Unbelievable. So much for FD Roosevelt´s New Deal and L Johnson´s War on Poverty. Nevertheless, it is socially responsible business that has its high integrity leaders that represents the best driving force in the US. Meanwhile Denmark started off on the right foot with a benevolent monarch and a national poet N Grundvig, along with a Reverend who brought the co-op model over from the UK workers. Germany´s Frankfurt School and Walter Eucken developed ordoliberal social markets after WWII, while Emiglia Romana Italy´s right and left wing co-ops hammered out their own alliance to repel the CIA´s machinations, and Mondragon industrial co-op rose in Franco´s Spain.

With the WSF and Solidarity Economics, along with Fair Trade certification, options exist for waking up Christians to their Fundamentalist hostile or passive progressive hypocrisies. The Evangelical Environmental Network is a move on that side, while Equal Exchange´s co-op organic and Fair Trade Interfaith Network is a move on the progressive side.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Much of the poverty and homelessnes is due to poor choices made by those who are poor and homeless. Many are school dropouts. If you do not get an education how can you expect a good job. Also many are alcohol or drug abusers. You can't work if you are always high on drugs or alcohol. Very few poor homeless people are well educated and not on drugs or alcohol. When you make poor choices you get bad results. Do not blame religion or society for the bad choices these people make.
 

Spirosmav

Member
Much of the poverty and homelessnes is due to poor choices made by those who are poor and homeless. Many are school dropouts. If you do not get an education how can you expect a good job. Also many are alcohol or drug abusers. You can't work if you are always high on drugs or alcohol. Very few poor homeless people are well educated and not on drugs or alcohol. When you make poor choices you get bad results. Do not blame religion or society for the bad choices these people make.


I agree. Don't tread on me. During dot com crisis and black Monday, ppl were blaming society for the inevitable market crashes. Don't tread on me. Disenfranchised welfare. Thatswhat a guy from new jersey said after getting a special hook up to join the union. I wrote this purposely. Just kidding, not funny
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Much of the poverty and homelessnes is due to poor choices made by those who are poor and homeless. Many are school dropouts. If you do not get an education how can you expect a good job. Also many are alcohol or drug abusers. You can't work if you are always high on drugs or alcohol. Very few poor homeless people are well educated and not on drugs or alcohol. When you make poor choices you get bad results. Do not blame religion or society for the bad choices these people make.
Poverty and homelessness are systemic problems with capitalism at the root of it.
 

Punta Piñal

Heretic
Poverty and homelessness are systemic problems with capitalism at the root of it.
And monotheistic, fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible are intimately intertwined with the centuries-old, West-centric development of what we know as capitalism, especially in regard to the banking system. In that regard, Islamic society, at least during the Arabic Golden Age, devised a very sophisticated and holistic approach to deal with poverty that, in some respects, is arguably superior to the approach that the Jewish-Christian West, especially the Anglo-American empire, has taken. A number of historical factors have made the current, Anglo-American model the dominant paradigm in world affairs, and people in the West these days tend to interpret history through a complex of Anglo-American-influenced ideas. Yet even within the West, there are stark cultural divides that manifest themselves in social structures and approaches to poverty, such as the more communal—as opposed to individualistic—Latin societies, which derive much of their influence from other cultures, such as the native populations in Latin America.
 
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