Is Woke a religion?

[LeftyLen]

So you don't see yourself as an extreme, far right, radical conservative? That's not very insightful of you. Here you are on the Internet with your hair on fire trying to hold back social progress. Your behavior is quite aptly described as caustic clownery (your words, not mine).

Like Marxists?

Yet YOU'RE the activist on this thread. You've gone to war against the enlightened in defense of continued privilege, making you Unawake, benighted, and a social injustice warrior. None of those are flattering terms.

If you can't compete with people of color, LGBTQ+, immigrants, and other non-white, hetero, Christian males on a level playing field, then you don't deserve what they get. If you need to hold such people down and back to have more economic and social opportunity than they have, it's you who deserves what Trump called "black jobs." In the humanistic "woke" model for society, you're going to need to compete for the same opportunities with no advantages apart from your natural advantages if any.

1. "Enlightened" meaning the secularist, perhaps 'Übermensch' in the left. 2. 'Social Progress' meaning ever growing statism , progress of government to cure all societies ills against the antiquated conservative notions of Americas Founders? The values of the left to 'cure' societies ills tried over and over again in socialist countries, how has that worked out?* 3. Level playing field is the values of MLK, and other liberals who worked for equality, as opposed to the left with 'Equity.' 4. The obnoxious Trump, what were the results of his economic policies in minority communities? 5. A pillar of leftism is the notion of “white privilege.” Given that a generation of high school and college students are being taught that a great number of “unearned privileges” accrue to white Americans an assertion turns out to be largely meaningless. And more significantly, it does great harm to blacks. 6. First, no reasonable person can argue that white privilege applies to the great majority of whites, let alone to all whites. There are simply too many variables other than race that determine individual success in America. There are a host of privileges that dwarf “white privilege.” A huge benefit is “two-parent privilege.” If you are raised by a father and mother, you enter adulthood with more privileges than anyone else in American society, IRRESPECTIVE of race, ethnicity or sex. Obviously, the two-parent home is a decisive privilege, but with secular society, secular values the family is in decline.. 6. How about ” is “Asian privilege.” Asians do better than white Americans in school, on IQ tests, on credit scores and on every other front. . In fact, i have read Asians will surpass whites as the wealthiest group of Americans. Will the left soon complain about Asian privilege? 7. Every high school student knows that given similar scholastic and extracurricular records, one’s chances of being accepted into a prestigious college are considerably greater if one is a member of a minority, most especially the black minority, this my Nephew found out, he did not complain, just reapplied.


So, then why all this left-wing talk about white privilege and victimhood, oppressor?

The major reason is in order to continue to portray groups as victims, keeping alive fomenting the neo-marxist narrative to justify more statism,
The political goal is to ensure continued a view America is phobic hateful bigoted racist fascist etc. The left knows that the only way to retain power is to perpetuate this cultural marxist narrative that primary problem is race class struggle to than can see leftism as inndespensible. Finally 'cultural values' determining the fate of the individual and is not bad values (secularism) lack of moral self-control that causes inequality poverty but class struggle, thats Marxism.

 

[Oeste]

Hi @LeftyLen,

I see earlier, on another thread, that you consider yourself a "Constitutional Fundamentalist".

I have a thought experiment I thought we all might do @LeftyLen.

Let just suppose that you have presented overwhelming evidence, evidence you have failed to present so far, but for the sake of our thought experiment, evidence we all pretend is there.

So now we've all reached this enlightened epiphany, we hitch our wagons to your Constitutional Fundamentalist cart, and we all chant and agree: "WOKE IS A RELIGION"!

Tiki torches, at this point, are strictly optional but WOKEISM, from this point forward, is a bona fide religion throughout the land. A religion which you claim must be resisted unless one is a "letist":

Once one understands this, one can easily understand what is going on with our society at present and understand more clearly than ever why it must be resisted, unless one is a letist.

Exactly where does our new found illogic lead us, except around in a circle, like a head eating its tail???


As a "Constitutional Fundamentalist" you know full well we have an establishment clause:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

So, as "Good Americans" that love the Constitution, will it be our job to protect the religious freedom of "the Woke", allowing them to practice their religion at home, churches, and our public venues, whenever and wherever possible, to the maximum extent of the law? Or will it then be our job to be anti-American, and deny them religious freedom (since it "must be resisted"), just as religion was resisted in Soviet Russia?

Gee, wouldn't the latter make us Marxists?

I don't think you've really thought this through @LeftyLen, but feel free to tell our readers how "Woke", as a religion, plays out in your mind. I simply don't see it playing well in mine.

 

[Argentbear]

1. "Enlightened" meaning the secularist, perhaps 'Übermensch' in the left. 2. 'Social Progress' meaning ever growing statism , progress of government to cure all societies ills against the antiquated conservative notions of Americas Founders? The values of the left to 'cure' societies ills tried over and over again in socialist countries, how has that worked out?* 3. Level playing field is the values of MLK, and other liberals who worked for equality, as opposed to the left with 'Equity.' 4. The obnoxious Trump, what were the results of his economic policies in minority communities?

Well in the summer of 2020 the unemployment rate of African American's was twice that of white American's

that same year a Brookings Institution report found that Black Americans are overrepresented in low-wage, undervalued “essential” jobs in which they’re more likely to die due to factors like the coronavirus.

According to the Associated Press household median income was higher for Black people before Trump took office.

5. A pillar of leftism is the notion of “white privilege.” Given that a generation of high school and college students are being taught that a great number of “unearned privileges” accrue to white Americans an assertion turns out to be largely meaningless. And more significantly, it does great harm to blacks. 6. First, no reasonable person can argue that white privilege applies to the great majority of whites, let alone to all whites.

I am reminded of a story about a retired sociology professor who agreed to be one of the speakers on race in America at a very conservative (and unsurprisingly all white) Christian college. She was the last speaker following speakers on issues in the criminal justice system and systemic economic discrimination and her topic was white privilege. She was booed as she walked on stage. She asked the audience to consider what they learned today and also consider what they personally knew about living in this country as asked anyone here to stand if they woudl be all right if they were suddenly changed into a black person and would live their lives as an African American. Of course no one stood. She said : "This.....This is white privilege" and left that stage

7. Every high school student knows that given similar scholastic and extracurricular records, one’s chances of being accepted into a prestigious college are considerably greater if one is a member of a minority, most especially the black minority, this my Nephew found out, he did not complain, just reapplied.

speaking of playing the victim

So, then why all this left-wing talk about white privilege and victimhood, oppressor?

The major reason is in order to continue to portray groups as victims, keeping alive fomenting the neo-marxist narrative to justify more statism,
The political goal is to ensure continued a view America is phobic hateful bigoted racist fascist etc. The left knows that the only way to retain power is to perpetuate this cultural marxist narrative that primary problem is race class struggle to than can see leftism as inndespensible. Finally 'cultural values' determining the fate of the individual and is not bad values (secularism) lack of moral self-control that causes inequality poverty but class struggle, thats Marxism.

that is bigotry not marxism

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

1. "Enlightened" meaning the secularist, perhaps 'Übermensch' in the left. 2. 'Social Progress' meaning ever growing statism , progress of government to cure all societies ills against the antiquated conservative notions of Americas Founders? The values of the left to 'cure' societies ills tried over and over again in socialist countries, how has that worked out?* 3. Level playing field is the values of MLK, and other liberals who worked for equality, as opposed to the left with 'Equity.' 4. The obnoxious Trump, what were the results of his economic policies in minority communities? 5. A pillar of leftism is the notion of “white privilege.” Given that a generation of high school and college students are being taught that a great number of “unearned privileges” accrue to white Americans an assertion turns out to be largely meaningless. And more significantly, it does great harm to blacks. 6. First, no reasonable person can argue that white privilege applies to the great majority of whites, let alone to all whites. There are simply too many variables other than race that determine individual success in America. There are a host of privileges that dwarf “white privilege.” A huge benefit is “two-parent privilege.” If you are raised by a father and mother, you enter adulthood with more privileges than anyone else in American society, IRRESPECTIVE of race, ethnicity or sex. Obviously, the two-parent home is a decisive privilege, but with secular society, secular values the family is in decline.. 6. How about ” is “Asian privilege.” Asians do better than white Americans in school, on IQ tests, on credit scores and on every other front. . In fact, i have read Asians will surpass whites as the wealthiest group of Americans. Will the left soon complain about Asian privilege? 7. Every high school student knows that given similar scholastic and extracurricular records, one’s chances of being accepted into a prestigious college are considerably greater if one is a member of a minority, most especially the black minority, this my Nephew found out, he did not complain, just reapplied.

Maybe you should think about relaxing a bit. You ask if "wokeism" is a religion, but this wall of words indicates that you've embraced a godless religion of your own that has captured you and has you behaving as if you are demon possessed repeatedly reposting the same cut-and-paste memes.

But it's conservative indoctrination media that has taken possession of your thoughts and mood. You're ranting. You'd be happier if you turned your radio and TV off or tuned them to something less agitating to you, but that doesn't seem to happen much - just like with religions with gods that threaten damnation. Once they get that message firmly lodged into a psyche, that mind is generally captured for life, and the more the message agitates and torments them, the firmer the capture.

This is the price conservatives pay for drinking from that cup - continuous grievance and unhappiness. This is how the propagandists take control of a mind, and what they use them for: serving their agenda, which doesn't include you. Your job is to come to sites like this and rant on their behalf, however unpleasant that may be for you, however much blowback you receive, because they don't care about that, either. Your job is to promote white, Christian, male privilege by attacking everything that is not that as you just did in that wall of words above. Those people will do nothing to help you in return - just like the two major religions, which also invent boogeymen, and which use similar tactics to recruit a free marketing force.

Regarding your nephew, that sounds typical. Blame the minorities. Even if people of color were beneficiaries of affirmative action, your nephew apparently couldn't compete against the other white applicants who WERE accepted, at least not that year whatever schools he applied to. White privilege doesn't guarantee success.

The Asian advantage is the same as the Jewish advantage - a culture that promotes academic excellence. By contrast, there are still a huge swathe of white Americans living lives of subsistence in unskilled jobs who dropped out of school as soon as possible because they were overwhelmed by it, didn't see the advantage, or lacked the discipline. Their culture wasn't as geared to succeeding.

And these kinds of people are the target of conservative grievance indoctrination. Tell them how blacks and immigrants want to "replace them" and are stealing their jobs, how the liberals are holding them back and promoting everybody else with a litany of grievances like your wall of words above, and they'll scream to high heaven about how unfair it all is. Yet, they made their beds with their bad decisions, and now, they are being tortured by these memes.

Regarding "moral self-control," look at the MAGA movement, which is predominantly white. Those people support a candidate who is a convicted felon, serial liar, serial adulterer, serial grifter, twice impeached, serial adulterer, adjudicated sexual predator, and an insurrectionist who stole state secrets. The right hasn't a foot to stand on in that department and probably should stop using the word moral.

As I said, maybe you should think about relaxing a bit. You might feel better.

How about some song lyrics?

Jackie is just speeding away
Thought she was James Dean for a day
Then I guess she had to crash
Valium would have helped that bash

 

[LeftyLen]

Hi @LeftyLen,

I see earlier, on another thread, that you consider yourself a "Constitutional Fundamentalist".

I have a thought experiment I thought we all might do @LeftyLen.

Let just suppose that you have presented overwhelming evidence, evidence you have failed to present so far, but for the sake of our thought experiment, evidence we all pretend is there.

So now we've all reached this enlightened epiphany, we hitch our wagons to your Constitutional Fundamentalist cart, and we all chant and agree: "WOKE IS A RELIGION"!

Tiki torches, at this point, are strictly optional but WOKEISM, from this point forward, is a bona fide religion throughout the land. A religion which you claim must be resisted unless one is a "letist":



Exactly where does our new found illogic lead us, except around in a circle, like a head eating its tail???


As a "Constitutional Fundamentalist" you know full well we have an establishment clause:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

So, as "Good Americans" that love the Constitution, will it be our job to protect the religious freedom of "the Woke", allowing them to practice their religion at home, churches, and our public venues, whenever and wherever possible, to the maximum extent of the law? Or will it then be our job to be anti-American, and deny them religious freedom (since it "must be resisted"), just as religion was resisted in Soviet Russia?

Gee, wouldn't the latter make us Marxists?

I don't think you've really thought this through @LeftyLen, but feel free to tell our readers how "Woke", as a religion, plays out in your mind. I simply don't see it playing well in mine.

1, If as i assert woke is a religion, yes in the home or elsewhere. Now creationism is pandered by far right fundamentalists as 'science' but simply defining sciences reveals is not science but sectarian religion thus has no business in a science classroom. It is not persecution or anti religion to exclude it from sciences class, as its not science and as its religion violates the establishment clause. maybe include it in humanities class. 2. Ad Nauseam I have expounded on the religious aspects of woke, and its derivation from marxism.

 

[LeftyLen]

Maybe you should think about relaxing a bit. You ask if "wokeism" is a religion, but this wall of words indicates that you've embraced a godless religion of your own that has captured you and has you behaving as if you are demon possessed repeatedly reposting the same curt-and-pate memes.

But it's conservative indoctrination media that has taken possession of your thoughts and mood. You're ranting. You'd be happier if you turned your radio and TV off or tuned them to something less agitating to you, but that doesn't seem to happen much - just like with religions with gods that threaten damnation. Once they get that message firmly lodged into a psyche, that mind is generally captured for life, and the more the message agitates and torments them, the firmer the capture.

This is the price conservatives pay for drinking from that cup - continuous grievance and unhappiness. This is how the propagandists take control of a mind, and what they use them for: serving their agenda, which doesn't include you. Your job is to come to sites like this and rant on their behalf, however unpleasant that may be for you, however much blowback you receive, because they don't care about that, either. Your job is to promote white, Christian, male privilege by attacking everything that is not that as you just did in that wall of words above. Those people will do nothing to help you in return - just like the two major religions, which also invent boogeymen, and which use similar tactics to recruit a free marketing force.

Regarding your nephew, that sounds typical. Blame the minorities. Even if people of color were beneficiaries of affirmative action, your nephew apparently couldn't compete against the other white applicants who WERE accepted, at least not that year whatever schools he applied to. White privilege doesn't guarantee success.

The Asian advantage is the same as the Jewish advantage - a culture that promotes academic excellence. By contrast, there are still a huge swathe of white Americans living lives of subsistence in unskilled jobs who dropped out of school as soon as possible because they were overwhelmed by it, didn't see the advantage, or lacked the discipline. Their culture wasn't as geared to succeeding.

And these kinds of people are the target of conservative grievance indoctrination. Tell them how blacks and immigrants want to "replace them" and are stealing their jobs, how the liberals are holding them back and promoting everybody else with a litany of grievances like your wall of words above, and they'll scream to high heaven about how unfair it all is. Yet, they made their beds with their bad decisions, and now, they are being tortured by these memes.

Regarding "moral self-control," look at the MAGA movement, which is predominantly white. Those people support a candidate who is a convicted felon, serial liar, serial adulterer, serial grifter, twice impeached, serial adulterer, adjudicated sexual predator, and an insurrectionist who stole state secrets. The right hasn't a foot to stand on in that department and probably should stop using the word moral.

As I said, maybe you should think about relaxing a bit. You might feel better.

How about some song lyrics?

Jackie is just speeding away
Thought she was James Dean for a day
Then I guess she had to crash
Valium would have helped that bash

90% ad hominem. I am Neither Republican or Democrat. The Republicans are the lessor of two evils, less evil but still evil. TDS is real, the weaponized justice system has been on its 'get Trump' setting since 2015 with the convictions, etc. This is what's done in third would countries, imprison opposing candidates, that is the lefts narrative.. Most of those accusations are over done, he is no paragon of virtue. Comparing Trump to the moral weaknesses of Jefferson i wonder who is worse? "minority blaming"? nothing in my most like that. Being concerned over a failed border policy by the Democrats yes. Listening to Dennis Prager does not render one 'indoctrinated'

 

[LeftyLen]

Hi @LeftyLen,

I see earlier, on another thread, that you consider yourself a "Constitutional Fundamentalist".

I have a thought experiment I thought we all might do @LeftyLen.

Let just suppose that you have presented overwhelming evidence, evidence you have failed to present so far, but for the sake of our thought experiment, evidence we all pretend is there.

So now we've all reached this enlightened epiphany, we hitch our wagons to your Constitutional Fundamentalist cart, and we all chant and agree: "WOKE IS A RELIGION"!

Tiki torches, at this point, are strictly optional but WOKEISM, from this point forward, is a bona fide religion throughout the land. A religion which you claim must be resisted unless one is a "letist":



Exactly where does our new found illogic lead us, except around in a circle, like a head eating its tail???


As a "Constitutional Fundamentalist" you know full well we have an establishment clause:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

So, as "Good Americans" that love the Constitution, will it be our job to protect the religious freedom of "the Woke", allowing them to practice their religion at home, churches, and our public venues, whenever and wherever possible, to the maximum extent of the law? Or will it then be our job to be anti-American, and deny them religious freedom (since it "must be resisted"), just as religion was resisted in Soviet Russia?

Gee, wouldn't the latter make us Marxists?

I don't think you've really thought this through @LeftyLen, but feel free to tell our readers how "Woke", as a religion, plays out in your mind. I simply don't see it playing well in m because an ideology is dogmatic and self-righteous does not necessarily make it a religion, and so it is fair to ask whether Wokeism is anything more than a new belief system. There is no obviously mythological or supernatural element to Woke ideology, and its adherents rarely, if ever, justify their statements with reference to a god, or higher power. But a deeper look at Wokeism does, indeed, reveal a whole series of mythological and supernatural beliefs, including the idea that white people today are responsible for the racist actions of white people in the past; that climate change risks making humans extinct; and that a person can change their sex by simply identifying as the opposite sex.

Now because an ideology is dogmatic self-righteous does not 'necessarily make it a religion.' There is no obviously mythological or supernatural element to Woke dogma. But a deeper look at Wokeism does, indeed, reveal a whole series of mythological and supernatural beliefs, including the idea that white people today are responsible for the racist actions of white people in the past; that climate change risks making humans extinct; and that a person can change their sex by simply identifying as the opposite sex, those are transcendent beliefs, aka religious..

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I am Neither Republican or Democrat.

OK. So what? Neither am I. I am a progressive liberal. Democrats are people who have been elected as Democrats or are employed by the Democratic party. I don't even include unpaid volunteers.

Even if I vote for one, that doesn't make me one any more than voting for a Cardinal or Yankee for the All-Star team makes me a Cardinal or a Yankee. Those are people who are on or work for the team.

But you are a MAGA conservative. The evidence follows:

The Republicans are the lessor of two evils, less evil but still evil. TDS is real, the weaponized justice system has been on its 'get Trump' setting since 2015 with the convictions, etc. This is what's done in third would countries, imprison opposing candidates, that is the lefts narrative.

There you go - right out of the indoctrination media's playbook; "TDS," "weaponized justice system," and "get Trump" These are among the lies, grievances and victimhood that they peddle.

Listening to Dennis Prager does not render one 'indoctrinated'

I don't know who or what your sources are, but you think what MAGA wants you to think. They've radicalized you. Suddenly, out of the blue, you have problems with Jefferson, who polls among the 7 greatest presidents in every list included here. But somebody told you he was a bad guy - probably because he advocated for church-state separation, which is also anathema for MAGA - and so now here you are dutifully spreading that meme. That's radical for an American.

MAGA bona fides are not something one can argue way any more than an obviously drunk person at a traffic stop isn't going to be able to talk his way out of a DUI however much he or she protests that he or she is not intoxicated when all of the characteristic signs are present. Your words tell me how you think and how you came to think that way, just as mine should do the same for any objective observer.

But why would you want to argue it away? Why not just embrace it since you're proud to live it and repeat all of this? If I tell a Christian that they are indoctrinated, they embrace that. Yes, they say; that DOCTRINE is IN me, and they listened to lots of sermons to become that way. So why not you, too? You've listened to Prager or whomever and now repeat MAGA tropes.

 

[LeftyLen]

OK. So what? Neither am I. I am a progressive liberal. Democrats are people who have been elected as Democrats or are employed by the Democratic party. I don't even include unpaid volunteers.

Even if I vote for one, that doesn't make me one any more than voting for a Cardinal or Yankee for the All-Star team makes me a Cardinal or a Yankee. Those are people who are on or work for the team.

But you are a MAGA conservative. The evidence follows:

There you go - right out of the indoctrination media's playbook; "TDS," "weaponized justice system," and "get Trump" These are among the lies, grievances and victimhood that they peddle.

I don't know who or what your sources are, but you think what MAGA wants you to think. They've radicalized you. Suddenly, out of the blue, you have problems with Jefferson, who polls among the 7 greatest presidents in every list included here. But somebody told you he was a bad guy - probably because he advocated for church-state separation, which is also anathema for MAGA - and so now here you are dutifully spreading that meme. That's radical for an American.

MAGA bona fides are not something one can argue way any more than an obviously drunk person at a traffic stop isn't going to be able to talk his way out of a DUI however much he or she protests that he or she is not intoxicated when all of the characteristic signs are present. Your words tell me how you think and how you came to think that way, just as mine should do the same for any objective observer.

But why would you want to argue it away? Why not just embrace it since you're proud to live it and repeat all of this? If I tell a Christian that they are indoctrinated, they embrace that. Yes, they say; that DOCTRINE is IN me, and they listened to lots of sermons to become that way. So why not you, too? You've listened to Prager or whomever and now repeat MAGA tropes.

Clarity about Jefferson, He got a 14 year old pregnant, and the Left complains about Trumps personal morality Jeffersons maxim of 'mixing church and state corrupts both' i hold to. As to MAGA , I hold a candidates name on a flag as idolatry. I am LIBERTARIAN .
Back to woke, the massive social and philosophical drift since the early twentieth century that has created Cultural Marxism and its child, the modern “woke” culture, can’t be blamed on a just a few guys from Frankfurt. My reading is extensive on the influence of the frankfort School of Marxism. The damage was not so much from their own thought but from the thought of those they influenced. They were bubbles on a wave, not the wave itself.

The denial of you on the Left and the furious squeals of “anti-Semitism” and “conspiracy” are attempts (conscious or not) to conceal a simple truth. The phenomenon described at the turn of the century is now obviously the philosophy of the entire Western elite. It now so dominates our societies that you can baselessly denounce and smear anyone who even mentions the term and expect to get away with it. “Cultural Marxism”, “woke-ism”, “political correctness” or whatever else you might wish to call it has become the toxic water in which we poor fish are now forced to swim.

Perhaps the furious manner in which so many academics and journalists react to such a simple term betrays a certain fear on their part—a silent terror pushed down deep in the back of their minds that if ordinary people are allowed to see what Cultural Marxism is and the effect it is having, they might decide they don’t like it. After all, throughout the ages there has been nothing a pampered elite has feared more than a mob of angry proletarian peasants with torches and pitchforks. That the left claims to be for the common man (maga) and disdains them at the same time is telling

 

[LeftyLen]

OK. So what? Neither am I. I am a progressive liberal. Democrats are people who have been elected as Democrats or are employed by the Democratic party. I don't even include unpaid volunteers.

Even if I vote for one, that doesn't make me one any more than voting for a Cardinal or Yankee for the All-Star team makes me a Cardinal or a Yankee. Those are people who are on or work for the team.

But you are a MAGA conservative. The evidence follows:

There you go - right out of the indoctrination media's playbook; "TDS," "weaponized justice system," and "get Trump" These are among the lies, grievances and victimhood that they peddle.

I don't know who or what your sources are, but you think what MAGA wants you to think. They've radicalized you. Suddenly, out of the blue, you have problems with Jefferson, who polls among the 7 greatest presidents in every list included here. But somebody told you he was a bad guy - probably because he advocated for church-state separation, which is also anathema for MAGA - and so now here you are dutifully spreading that meme. That's radical for an American.

MAGA bona fides are not something one can argue way any more than an obviously drunk person at a traffic stop isn't going to be able to talk his way out of a DUI however much he or she protests that he or she is not intoxicated when all of the characteristic signs are present. Your words tell me how you think and how you came to think that way, just as mine should do the same for any objective observer.

But why would you want to argue it away? Why not just embrace it since you're proud to live it and repeat all of this? If I tell a Christian that they are indoctrinated, they embrace that. Yes, they say; that DOCTRINE is IN me, and they listened to lots of sermons to become that way. So why not you, too? You've listened to Prager or whomever and now repeat MAGA tropes.

I am one of those despised proletarians that needs the strong arm of a central leftist government to tell them what to do., 25 years a long haul driver, this is for YOU. While driving a big rig listening to the radio or with my online time I make a point of reading and listening to those I disagree with. I listen to both the extremes and moderates to simply acquire an understanding of others, no matter how annoying or even repulsive their positions. There are online those on the far left and far right and everything in between who have plenty to say, each acting like their personal perspectives are singularly the most important perspectives ever uttered that must be heard. I have noted copious comments of those who loath country music stating they envision country music aficionados as deplorable hayseeds. The left relegate rural citizens as deplorables occupying small towns, villages, hamlets. The left as I have assessed see, “agrarian overall wearing yahoos populating those towns, dirty red necked Provencal proletarian hayseeds who are probably in league with the klan -hardly worth the carbon intake their existence entails.” This revulsion I noted in reviews of country music by urban leftists who disdain the working class, particularly the rural variety. Paradoxically the left loath the working class while at the same time harp on the ‘class struggle’ of marginalized workers and other marginalized ‘identity’ groups. The left’s proclaimed egalitarian posture betrayed by their overt condescending view of the working class. This curious dichotomy a perplexing contradiction I have noted about leftists for years, an affirmation of caring about the ‘oppressed’ while simultaneously hating them. This irrational leftist dichotomy always baffled me, at least until actually exploring small towns and meeting people in small towns when suddenly the missing piece of puzzle, the contradictory paradox came together.

In leftist (socialist) countries you always had an elite group of intellectuals who feign caring for others in the oppressed lessor, ‘exploited classes.’ Whenever in power these elites embark on vigorously imposed programs of wealth redistribution to force equality. In collectivist countries, in spite of a history of continuous failure of compelled utopian designs imposed by leftist elites, the elites remain entrenched, thoroughly in love with their own productions. The leftist elites dogmatically rooted in their designs cannot be moved, no matter the resultant collateral damage. This leftist entrenchment is what renders them so insidiously evil, sporting in design what parallels a fundamentalist religion, positions so correct that not only must be heard but must be enforced. The utterly intractable mindset of leftists is why I designate them as being, ‘secular fundamentalists.’



Today the Woke promote capacious political abstractions in their rhetoric that bear little resemblance to actual social groups. Those groups, minorities who don’t play their assigned role may be accused of ‘internalized misogyny’ or ‘internalized racism,’ in other words your guilty not
for what you do, but what you think. This is all the Marxist theory of false consciousness, what you ‘think' renders you the enemy, clearly mirroring china's ‘cultural revolution’ and the old Soviet police who incessantly hunted for heretics with ‘bourgeoisie ‘ tendencies that needed reeducation, or execution. This was the piece of the puzzle that explained the curious dichotomy of the Woke.



Historically all collectivist notions fail, yet today in America is a ‘mutated’ leftism more cultural than Marx’s strict economic class struggle, and this movement is growing exponentially. These elites see their utopian fantasizes as workable, a salvation of equity for everyone they see as victims of mostly anonymous oppressing enemies. The cultural Marxists see group ‘salvation’ through identity, the state being the mediator of liberation, statist salvation for the marginalized. The woke fantasize how better life for all would be if they just had total and complete power so they could make things right.

And you hate those dirty magas?

 

[Viker]

And you hate those dirty magas?

Personally, I love magas. I'm a maga.

On the other hand, MAGA kind of scares me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

90% ad hominem. I am Neither Republican or Democrat. The Republicans are the lessor of two evils, less evil but still evil. TDS is real, the weaponized justice system has been on its 'get Trump' setting since 2015 with the convictions, etc. This is what's done in third would countries, imprison opposing candidates, that is the lefts narrative.. Most of those accusations are over done, he is no paragon of virtue. Comparing Trump to the moral weaknesses of Jefferson i wonder who is worse? "minority blaming"? nothing in my most like that. Being concerned over a failed border policy by the Democrats yes. Listening to Dennis Prager does not render one 'indoctrinated'

You are still parroting extreme right-wing talking points. And worse yet, talking points we've all heard before, ad nauseum.

"You have TDS" isn't an argument for anything. Especially when that is just an obvious psychological projection. MAGA support, in the words of the poster you are responding to, " Those people support a candidate who is a convicted felon, serial liar, serial adulterer, serial grifter, twice impeached, serial adulterer, adjudicated sexual predator, and an insurrectionist who stole state secrets. The right hasn't a foot to stand on in that department and probably should stop using the word moral."

But you want us to believe that people who oppose those things are the deranged ones? How do you square that circle?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Clarity about Jefferson, He got a 14 year old pregnant, and the Left complains about Trumps personal morality Jeffersons maxim of 'mixing church and state corrupts both' i hold to. As to MAGA , I hold a candidates name on a flag as idolatry. I am LIBERTARIAN .
Back to woke, the massive social and philosophical drift since the early twentieth century that has created Cultural Marxism and its child, the modern “woke” culture, can’t be blamed on a just a few guys from Frankfurt. My reading is extensive on the influence of the frankfort School of Marxism. The damage was not so much from their own thought but from the thought of those they influenced. They were bubbles on a wave, not the wave itself.

The denial of you on the Left and the furious squeals of “anti-Semitism” and “conspiracy” are attempts (conscious or not) to conceal a simple truth. The phenomenon described at the turn of the century is now obviously the philosophy of the entire Western elite. It now so dominates our societies that you can baselessly denounce and smear anyone who even mentions the term and expect to get away with it. “Cultural Marxism”, “woke-ism”, “political correctness” or whatever else you might wish to call it has become the toxic water in which we poor fish are now forced to swim.

Perhaps the furious manner in which so many academics and journalists react to such a simple term betrays a certain fear on their part—a silent terror pushed down deep in the back of their minds that if ordinary people are allowed to see what Cultural Marxism is and the effect it is having, they might decide they don’t like it. After all, throughout the ages there has been nothing a pampered elite has feared more than a mob of angry proletarian peasants with torches and pitchforks. That the left claims to be for the common man (maga) and disdains them at the same time is telling

How come "the Right" doesn't have any complaints about Trump's "personal morality?" That's my question.


You guys have gone from "Lock her Up" to "We wholeheartedly support a convicted felon for President!"
And you want to question "the left's" morality????

 

[LeftyLen]

How come "the Right" doesn't have any complaints about Trump's "personal morality?" That's my question.


You guys have gone from "Lock her Up" to "We wholeheartedly support a convicted felon for President!"
And you want to question "the left's" morality????

when Clinton, whose policies i despised was revealed to have had affairs, my attitude was, who cares? that was between him and his family. Hillery's corruption however affected Americans, in particular the military. Its clear the 'get Trump narrative ongoing since 2015 included a weaponized Judiciary, the Judge openly stating she was out to get Trump.. It is common practice in many countries to go after, imprison opposing candidates, the Vile democratic party has followed that practice,

 

[Ponder This]

The Woke mob departs somewhat from cultural Marxists dressing themselves up in slightly different rhetoric replacing economics with race and sex. Having grown up around fundamentalists and now seeing the growth of Woke there is little to differentiate the secular Woke from the fundamentalists, the similarities are in fact striking.



--The Woke have replaced Marx's ‘proletariat’ with ‘marginalized. ’



--Marx's ‘economic struggle’ is now replaced by ‘intersectionality.‘



--Marx’s utopian fantasy, from socialism to communism has been replaced with the woke fantasy of, ’ inclusive equitable society.’ Both fundamentalism and the woke entertain grand fantasies, utopian visions.



-Marx openly hated democracy which he saw as empowering oppressor/ victim, giving more power to the bourgeoisie with greater abilities to exploit the proletariat. The Woke, unlike liberals are not concerned with equality of opportunity but the equality of outcome. The woke, unlike the traditional Marxists see oppressor/victim as primarily racial and sexual with only an omnipotent state structure the means to enforce ‘equity.’ Democratic institutions to the woke are inherently phobe-hater-bigot-fascist, and racist, and, in lockstep with Marxism, as a consequence must be overturned.



---For the Marxist totalitarian the collectivist ideal is the goal, not the individual who must be subservient to the collective ideals, that has stayed the same with the emergence of Woke.



--Both protestant fundamentalism and Woke hold subjectivity above objective facts rendering both religions, their narratives, dogmatically foisted are religious claims.



--A common saying among the Woke faithful is ‘Your truth/my truth’ meaning no objective standard for truth exists. The fundamentalists say they know something is true ‘in their heart,’ further examples of both being religious.

IMO, an ideology in insufficient to be a religion. However, I do agree that the intensity of interest, the zeal, the fanaticism may even exceeed that of a religion, and I could conceive that people would try to replace their religion with such systems of belief. But I have come to the conclusion that a religion involves more than having a belief system. A religion contains, aspects of prayer, meditation, or similar activity for the purpose of spiritual development. It incorporates a superhuman power, or faith and worship. Thus, things like woke or like cultural Marxism are at best, wannabe replacements for religion. They are in the category of things like humanism and science, full of ideas and possibly even gathering religious-like interest, but ultimately lacking in spiritual quality.

 

[LeftyLen]

IMO, an ideology in insufficient to be a religion. However, I do agree that the intensity of interest, the zeal, the fanaticism may even exceeed that of a religion, and I could conceive that people would try to replace their religion with such systems of belief. But I have come to the conclusion that a religion involves more than having a belief system. A religion contains, aspects of prayer, meditation, or similar activity for the purpose of spiritual development. It incorporates a superhuman power, or faith and worship. Thus, things like woke or like cultural Marxism are at best, wannabe replacements for religion. They are in the category of things like humanism and science, full of ideas and possibly even gathering religious-like interest, but ultimately lacking in spiritual quality.

The transcendent quality of Woke is its utopian desires, a religious attribute a heaven on earth as opposed to a heaven . 'Wannabe replacement' - i agree.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The transcendent quality of Woke is its utopian desires, a religious attribute a heaven on earth as opposed to a heaven . 'Wannabe replacement' - i agree.

Well, the idea of Liberty can also act as a wannabe replacement. The same with Rationality, Reason, Truth, Evidence and so on.

 

[LeftyLen]

Well, the idea of Liberty can also act as a wannabe replacement. The same with Rationality, Reason, Truth, Evidence and so on.

Then as a consequence all ideas, upholding objective standards void, thus everything is subjective? That is nihilism .

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Then as a consequence all ideas, upholding objective standards void, thus everything is subjective? That is nihilism .

Everything is not subjectve, but nor is everything objective. Do you have any evidence for objective standards for good and bad, because that is where this end. Not that e.g. gravity is objective, but whether good and bad are objective.

 

[LeftyLen]

Everything is not subjectve, but nor is everything objective. Do you have any evidence for objective standards for good and bad, because that is where this end. Not that e.g. gravity is objective, but whether good and bad are objective.

secularism leads to nihilism.