Is Woke a religion?

[Viker]

"its wrong because its wrong" is a tautological fallacy. All points STAND until a coherent rebuttal is offered. None have been or seem to be forthcoming. 'Woke is cultural marxism.

It's been rebutted and debunked. You overlooked and basically said, "nuh uh".

Woke is not cultural Marxism. The accusation that it is IS deeply rooted in white nationalist rhetoric. Prove us wrong, if possible. We continually expose the claim for what it is.

 

[LeftyLen]

It's been rebutted and debunked. You overlooked and basically said, "nuh uh".

Woke is not cultural Marxism. The accusation that it is IS deeply rooted in white nationalist rhetoric. Prove us wrong, if possible. We continually expose the claim for what it is.

• Critical Theory is “neo-Marxism,” or, as it’s sometimes phrased, “Cultural Marxism,” which plainly derives from Marxism and retained much of what was core to its thought while completely modifying other aspects of it in the hopes of achieving communism.
• Postmodernism is a particular form of “post-Marxism,” which had given up more or less entirely on Marxism and thus everything else, though it was still a fairly significant fan of communist efforts as they played out in the 1950s and 1960s, and it was no friend to liberalism.
• Critical Social Justice is the intentional fusion of these two schools of thought with the goal of achieving its ideas about “Social Justice” through radical identity politics.

Let me add, I the clear similarity Wokeness seems to Mao’s Cultural Revolution as has been noted over and over by survivors of Maos cultural revolution. . The birthplace of Cultural Marxism was the Frankfort school of Marxism,which evolved into “Identity Marxism” Once one understands this, one can easily understand what is going on with our society at present and understand more clearly than ever why it must be resisted, unless one is a letist.

Though the members of the Frankfort school didn’t coin the term, the idea Frankfort Marxist would name “the long march through the institutions” in the 60's is ultimately the Frankfort schools roadmap to getting Marxism to take hold in the West. Gin their own writings, i read a decade ago they identifies that the “cultural hegemony” of Western cultures prevented Marxism from having any chance of taking root, so they recommended a strategy that seeks to tear apart and capture major cultural institutions, including religion, family, education, media, and law. Mao understood this clearly and used it to devastating effect. The same thing is happening throughout the West today.

Finally the straw man of something called 'white nationalists' which amounts to no more than diverse obnoxious gangs marching with tiki torches like at Charlotteville is silly. The far right, be they the theocratic fundamentalists or racist gangs are hopelessly divided among themselves so really do not amount to more than caustic clowns. The in history extremes have always built their base on elevating strawman enemies.

 

[LeftyLen]

Sorry, but @Argentbear did not state “its wrong because its wrong”. He/She stated “Its been rebutted many times over by many posters”.

Argentbear’s statement is true as evidenced by the many negative statements to your premise and assertions on this thread. Your rebuttal was a strawman, as it substituted Argentbear actual statement with another statement Argentbear never made. It was this "Strawman" you knocked down.



rebuttal
noun [ C ]
formal
US

/rɪˈbʌt̬.əl/ UK

/rɪˈbʌt.əl/

a statement that says that something is not true:
She issued a point-by-point rebuttal of the company's accusations. (Source)

You've set a low bar. There have been many statements by many posters that your statements are not true. They were easily readable and coherent. Thus by your own standard, your points no longer stand, and it's hard to argue with that.

However, even without all the rebuttals, you still have this backwards. You must first make the case your assumptions are true, otherwise any rebuttal simply requires an opposing opinion, and nothing more. If you provide no credible evidence, then the rebutter requires no credible evidence to disagree. Evidence requires more than a further statements from you, and Post 413 contains numerous unevidenced statements.


Rebuttals were previously presented. Forum posters presented them, and others can read them. I see no advantage in claiming they aren’t there.



"Cultural Marxism" is a right wing, antisemitic buzzword. It's modern day slang for the Nazi's "Cultural Bolshevism".

"Cultural Marxism" refers to a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory that misrepresents the Frankfurt School as being responsible for modern progressive movements, identity politics, and political correctness. (Source)​

• Critical Theory is “neo-Marxism,” or, as it’s sometimes phrased, “Cultural Marxism,” which plainly derives from Marxism and retained much of what was core to its thought while completely modifying other aspects of it in the hopes of achieving communism.
• Postmodernism is a particular form of “post-Marxism,” which had given up more or less entirely on Marxism and thus everything else, though it was still a fairly significant fan of communist efforts as they played out in the 1950s and 1960s, and it was no friend to liberalism.
• Critical Social Justice is the intentional fusion of these two schools of thought with the goal of achieving its ideas about “Social Justice” through radical identity politics.

Let me add, I the clear similarity Wokeness seems to Mao’s Cultural Revolution as has been noted over and over by survivors of Maos cultural revolution. . The birthplace of Cultural Marxism was the Frankfort school of Marxism,which evolved into “Identity Marxism” Once one understands this, one can easily understand what is going on with our society at present and understand more clearly than ever why it must be resisted, unless one is a letist.

Though the members of the Frankfort school didn’t coin the term, the idea Frankfort Marxist would name “the long march through the institutions” in the 60's is ultimately the Frankfort schools roadmap to getting Marxism to take hold in the West. Gin their own writings, i read a decade ago they identifies that the “cultural hegemony” of Western cultures prevented Marxism from having any chance of taking root, so they recommended a strategy that seeks to tear apart and capture major cultural institutions, including religion, family, education, media, and law. Mao understood this clearly and used it to devastating effect. The same thing is happening throughout the West today.

 

[LeftyLen]

It's been rebutted and debunked. You overlooked and basically said, "nuh uh".

Woke is not cultural Marxism. The accusation that it is IS deeply rooted in white nationalist rhetoric. Prove us wrong, if possible. We continually expose the claim for what it is.

• Critical Theory is “neo-Marxism,” or, as it’s sometimes phrased, “Cultural Marxism,” which plainly derives from Marxism and retained much of what was core to its thought while completely modifying other aspects of it in the hopes of achieving communism.
• Postmodernism is a particular form of “post-Marxism,” which had given up more or less entirely on Marxism and thus everything else, though it was still a fairly significant fan of communist efforts as they played out in the 1950s and 1960s, and it was no friend to liberalism.
• Critical Social Justice is the intentional fusion of these two schools of thought with the goal of achieving its ideas about “Social Justice” through radical identity politics.

• It's been rebutted and debunked. You overlooked and basically said, "nuh uh".
  
  Woke is not cultural Marxism. The accusation that it is IS deeply rooted in white nationalist rhetoric. Prove us wrong, if possible. We continually expose the claim for what it is.

  It was indeed clearly the Frankfurt School, a -Marxist intellectual school associated with the Institute for Social Research at the Goethe University Frankfurt, that further developed this idea of Cultural Marxism. the Frankfurt school evolved the idea into what’s called Critical Marxism. They developed what’s called the ' critical theory," the Frankfurt School, said that Marx was wrong about capitalism bringing the working class misery. Instead it “gives people a good life, makes them wealthy and comfortable and happy,” Lindsay said, citing Herbert Marcuse, another philosopher from the Frankfurt School. This meant that the working class was no longer going to be the focus of Cultural or Critical Marxism. In the study of the Frankfort school “In other words, we don’t have to be responsible to the working class anymore, which opens up the ability for Marxists who are seeking power to make friends with the corporations,” they concluded This explains why today’s leftists have no problem with working together with large, multi-billion dollar corporations to achieve their goals. And so they started to transform the culture industry to sell racial, sexual, gender, sexuality-based agitprop as though that were genuine culture.” And this is how we ended up with “woke,” which is “a form of identity-based Marxism.” This provides absolute clarity as to how woke is cultural marxism

 

[LeftyLen]

Sorry, but @Argentbear did not state “its wrong because its wrong”. He/She stated “Its been rebutted many times over by many posters”.

Argentbear’s statement is true as evidenced by the many negative statements to your premise and assertions on this thread. Your rebuttal was a strawman, as it substituted Argentbear actual statement with another statement Argentbear never made. It was this "Strawman" you knocked down.



rebuttal
noun [ C ]
formal
US

/rɪˈbʌt̬.əl/ UK

/rɪˈbʌt.əl/

a statement that says that something is not true:
She issued a point-by-point rebuttal of the company's accusations. (Source)

You've set a low bar. There have been many statements by many posters that your statements are not true. They were easily readable and coherent. Thus by your own standard, your points no longer stand, and it's hard to argue with that.

However, even without all the rebuttals, you still have this backwards. You must first make the case your assumptions are true, otherwise any rebuttal simply requires an opposing opinion, and nothing more. If you provide no credible evidence, then the rebutter requires no credible evidence to disagree. Evidence requires more than a further statements from you, and Post 413 contains numerous unevidenced statements.


Rebuttals were previously presented. Forum posters presented them, and others can read them. I see no advantage in claiming they aren’t there.



"Cultural Marxism" is a right wing, antisemitic buzzword. It's modern day slang for the Nazi's "Cultural Bolshevism".

"Cultural Marxism" refers to a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory that misrepresents the Frankfurt School as being responsible for modern progressive movements, identity politics, and political correctness. (Source)​

It was indeed clearly the Frankfurt School, a -Marxist intellectual school associated with the Institute for Social Research at the Goethe University Frankfurt, that further developed this idea of Cultural Marxism. the Frankfurt school evolved the idea into what’s called Critical Marxism. They developed what’s called the ' critical theory," the Frankfurt School, said that Marx was wrong about capitalism bringing the working class misery. Instead it “gives people a good life, makes them wealthy and comfortable and happy,” Lindsay said, citing Herbert Marcuse, another philosopher from the Frankfurt School. This meant that the working class was no longer going to be the focus of Cultural or Critical Marxism. In the study of the Frankfort school “In other words, we don’t have to be responsible to the working class anymore, which opens up the ability for Marxists who are seeking power to make friends with the corporations,” they concluded This explains why today’s leftists have no problem with working together with large, multi-billion dollar corporations to achieve their goals. And so they started to transform the culture industry to sell racial, sexual, gender, sexuality-based agitprop as though that were genuine culture.” And this is how we ended up with “woke,” which is “a form of identity-based Marxism.” This provides absolute clarity as to how woke is cultural marxism

 

[Viker]

• Critical Theory is “neo-Marxism,” or, as it’s sometimes phrased, “Cultural Marxism,” which plainly derives from Marxism and retained much of what was core to its thought while completely modifying other aspects of it in the hopes of achieving communism.
• Postmodernism is a particular form of “post-Marxism,” which had given up more or less entirely on Marxism and thus everything else, though it was still a fairly significant fan of communist efforts as they played out in the 1950s and 1960s, and it was no friend to liberalism.
• Critical Social Justice is the intentional fusion of these two schools of thought with the goal of achieving its ideas about “Social Justice” through radical identity politics.

Let me add, I the clear similarity Wokeness seems to Mao’s Cultural Revolution as has been noted over and over by survivors of Maos cultural revolution. . The birthplace of Cultural Marxism was the Frankfort school of Marxism,which evolved into “Identity Marxism” Once one understands this, one can easily understand what is going on with our society at present and understand more clearly than ever why it must be resisted, unless one is a letist.

Though the members of the Frankfort school didn’t coin the term, the idea Frankfort Marxist would name “the long march through the institutions” in the 60's is ultimately the Frankfort schools roadmap to getting Marxism to take hold in the West. Gin their own writings, i read a decade ago they identifies that the “cultural hegemony” of Western cultures prevented Marxism from having any chance of taking root, so they recommended a strategy that seeks to tear apart and capture major cultural institutions, including religion, family, education, media, and law. Mao understood this clearly and used it to devastating effect. The same thing is happening throughout the West today.

Finally the straw man of something called 'white nationalists' which amounts to no more than diverse obnoxious gangs marching with tiki torches like at Charlotteville is silly. The far right, be they the theocratic fundamentalists or racist gangs are hopelessly divided among themselves so really do not amount to more than caustic clowns. The in history extremes have always built their base on elevating strawman enemies.

You making these claims and reaffirming them doesn't make them true.

 

[Viker]

• Critical Theory is “neo-Marxism,” or, as it’s sometimes phrased, “Cultural Marxism,” which plainly derives from Marxism and retained much of what was core to its thought while completely modifying other aspects of it in the hopes of achieving communism.
• Postmodernism is a particular form of “post-Marxism,” which had given up more or less entirely on Marxism and thus everything else, though it was still a fairly significant fan of communist efforts as they played out in the 1950s and 1960s, and it was no friend to liberalism.
• Critical Social Justice is the intentional fusion of these two schools of thought with the goal of achieving its ideas about “Social Justice” through radical identity politics.
• 
  It was indeed clearly the Frankfurt School, a -Marxist intellectual school associated with the Institute for Social Research at the Goethe University Frankfurt, that further developed this idea of Cultural Marxism. the Frankfurt school evolved the idea into what’s called Critical Marxism. They developed what’s called the ' critical theory," the Frankfurt School, said that Marx was wrong about capitalism bringing the working class misery. Instead it “gives people a good life, makes them wealthy and comfortable and happy,” Lindsay said, citing Herbert Marcuse, another philosopher from the Frankfurt School. This meant that the working class was no longer going to be the focus of Cultural or Critical Marxism. In the study of the Frankfort school “In other words, we don’t have to be responsible to the working class anymore, which opens up the ability for Marxists who are seeking power to make friends with the corporations,” they concluded This explains why today’s leftists have no problem with working together with large, multi-billion dollar corporations to achieve their goals. And so they started to transform the culture industry to sell racial, sexual, gender, sexuality-based agitprop as though that were genuine culture.” And this is how we ended up with “woke,” which is “a form of identity-based Marxism.” This provides absolute clarity as to how woke is cultural marxism

Woke is a political slang adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) originally meaning alertness to racial prejudice and discrimination.[1] Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBT rights. Woke has also been used as shorthand for some ideas of the American Left involving identity politics and social justice, such as white privilege and reparations for slavery in the United States.[2][3][4]

Refer to caption
Then-United States Congresswoman Marcia Fudge holding a T-shirt reading "Stay Woke: Vote" in 2018
The phrase stay woke has been present in AAVE since the 1930s. In some contexts, it referred to an awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans. The phrase was uttered in recordings from the mid-20th century by Lead Belly and, post-millennium, by Erykah Badu.

The term woke gained further popularity in the 2010s. Over time, it became increasingly connected to matters beyond race such as gender and identities perceived as marginalized. During the 2014 Ferguson protests, the phrase was popularized by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. After the term was used on Black Twitter, woke was increasingly used by white people, who often used it to signal their support for BLM; some commentators criticized this usage as cultural appropriation. The term became popular with millennials and members of Generation Z. As its use spread internationally, woke was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2017.

Woke - Wikipedia

 

[LeftyLen]

You making these claims and reaffirming them doesn't make them true.

They are backed up, and stand, in regards to all the historical evinced provided

 

[LeftyLen]

Woke is a political slang adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) originally meaning alertness to racial prejudice and discrimination.[1] Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBT rights. Woke has also been used as shorthand for some ideas of the American Left involving identity politics and social justice, such as white privilege and reparations for slavery in the United States.[2][3][4]

Refer to caption
Then-United States Congresswoman Marcia Fudge holding a T-shirt reading "Stay Woke: Vote" in 2018
The phrase stay woke has been present in AAVE since the 1930s. In some contexts, it referred to an awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans. The phrase was uttered in recordings from the mid-20th century by Lead Belly and, post-millennium, by Erykah Badu.

The term woke gained further popularity in the 2010s. Over time, it became increasingly connected to matters beyond race such as gender and identities perceived as marginalized. During the 2014 Ferguson protests, the phrase was popularized by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. After the term was used on Black Twitter, woke was increasingly used by white people, who often used it to signal their support for BLM; some commentators criticized this usage as cultural appropriation. The term became popular with millennials and members of Generation Z. As its use spread internationally, woke was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2017.

Woke - Wikipedia

As i have noted with the extremes on left or right. (horseshoe theory) extreme opposites share much in common, extreme right, fundamentalism and extreme left, Woke. Curiously I have heard both the Woke and fundamentalists deny Woke and fundamentalism even exist. The existence of fundamentalism, over a hundred years old is often denied by the fundamentalists,- they claiming to be just, ‘Christians,’ and nothing more. They openly state all others are, ‘cults-heretics-reprobates-evolutionists.’ The comprehensive declaration of all others as being ‘cults-heretics-reprobate-evolutionists’ include all sectarians as well, designated as adversarial entities, according to the fundamentalists. ‘Christianity is not a religion,’ fundamentalists often declare, thus all not them, all Christian religions are therefore not Christian, summarily dismissed with a hand wave.


The Woke online see themselves as Social Justice Warriors exclusively defining Woke as the hundred year old Afro-American definition, nothing more, the actual dogmatic cultural Marxist stances they hold to, dismissed with a handwave in spite of massive evidence as to its present meaning

 

[LeftyLen]

Woke is a political slang adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) originally meaning alertness to racial prejudice and discrimination.[1] Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBT rights. Woke has also been used as shorthand for some ideas of the American Left involving identity politics and social justice, such as white privilege and reparations for slavery in the United States.[2][3][4]

Refer to caption
Then-United States Congresswoman Marcia Fudge holding a T-shirt reading "Stay Woke: Vote" in 2018
The phrase stay woke has been present in AAVE since the 1930s. In some contexts, it referred to an awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans. The phrase was uttered in recordings from the mid-20th century by Lead Belly and, post-millennium, by Erykah Badu.

The term woke gained further popularity in the 2010s. Over time, it became increasingly connected to matters beyond race such as gender and identities perceived as marginalized. During the 2014 Ferguson protests, the phrase was popularized by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. After the term was used on Black Twitter, woke was increasingly used by white people, who often used it to signal their support for BLM; some commentators criticized this usage as cultural appropriation. The term became popular with millennials and members of Generation Z. As its use spread internationally, woke was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2017.

Woke - Wikipedia

Even thewoke rhetoric serves to confirm woke is cultural Marxism. Having grown up around fundamentalists and now seeing the growth of Woke there is little to differentiate the secular Woke from the fundamentalists, the similarities of the opposites are in fact striking.



--The Woke have replaced Marx's ‘proletariat’ with ‘marginalized. ’



--Marx's ‘economic struggle’ is now replaced by ‘intersectionality.‘



--Marx’s utopian fantasy, from socialism to communism has been replaced with the woke fantasy of, ’ inclusive equitable society.’ Both fundamentalism and the woke entertain grand fantasies, utopian visions.



-Marx openly hated democracy which he saw as empowering oppressor/ victim, giving more power to the bourgeoisie with greater abilities to exploit the proletariat. The Woke, unlike liberals are not concerned with equality of opportunity but the equality of outcome. The woke, unlike the traditional Marxists see oppressor/victim as primarily racial and sexual with only an omnipotent state structure the means to enforce ‘equity.’ Democratic institutions to the woke are inherently phobe-hater-bigot-fascist, and racist, and, in lockstep with Marxism, as a consequence must be overturned.



---For the Marxist totalitarian the collectivist ideal is the goal, not the individual who must be subservient to the collective ideals, that has stayed the same with the emergence of Woke.



--Both protestant fundamentalism and Woke hold subjectivity above objective facts rendering both religions, their narratives, dogmatically foisted are religious claims.



--A common saying among the Woke faithful is ‘Your truth/my truth’ meaning no objective standard for truth exists. The fundamentalists say they know something is true ‘in their heart,’ further examples of both being religious.

 

[Maninthemiddle]

The rise of Woke, cultural marxism, is it a religion?

It’s the result of declining morals and Mental health issues.

 

[LuisDantas]

Wow. Some serious attachment to dellusions at work here.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The far right, be they the theocratic fundamentalists or racist gangs are hopelessly divided among themselves so really do not amount to more than caustic clowns.

So you don't see yourself as an extreme, far right, radical conservative? That's not very insightful of you. Here you are on the Internet with your hair on fire trying to hold back social progress. Your behavior is quite aptly described as caustic clownery (your words, not mine).

The in history extremes have always built their base on elevating strawman enemies.

Like Marxists?

The Woke online see themselves as Social Justice Warriors exclusively defining Woke as the hundred year old Afro-American definition

Yet YOU'RE the activist on this thread. You've gone to war against the enlightened in defense of continued privilege, making you Unawake, benighted, and a social injustice warrior. None of those are flattering terms.

If you can't compete with people of color, LGBTQ+, immigrants, and other non-white, hetero, Christian males on a level playing field, then you don't deserve what they get. If you need to hold such people down and back to have more economic and social opportunity than they have, it's you who deserves what Trump called "black jobs." In the humanistic "woke" model for society, you're going to need to compete for the same opportunities with no advantages apart from your natural advantages if any.

 

[Oeste]

It was indeed clearly the Frankfurt School, a -Marxist intellectual school associated with the Institute for Social Research at the Goethe University Frankfurt, that further developed this idea of Cultural Marxism. the Frankfurt school evolved the idea into what’s called Critical Marxism.

This is delusion.

You are entitled to you own opinion @LeftyLen, but not your own facts, and all you've presented so far is your opinion as "facts".

 

[Argentbear]

• Critical Theory is “neo-Marxism,” or, as it’s sometimes phrased, “Cultural Marxism,” which plainly derives from Marxism and retained much of what was core to its thought while completely modifying other aspects of it in the hopes of achieving communism.

The only connection between Marxism and Critical Theory is both have a focus on the systemic discrimination and the oppression of the more disenfranchised members of society.

You keep saying: "retained much of what was core to its thought while completely modifying other aspects of it."

Instead of just parroting this line try supporting it.

 

[Argentbear]

• Critical Theory is “neo-Marxism,” or, as it’s sometimes phrased, “Cultural Marxism,” which plainly derives from Marxism and retained much of what was core to its thought while completely modifying other aspects of it in the hopes of achieving communism.
• Postmodernism is a particular form of “post-Marxism,” which had given up more or less entirely on Marxism and thus everything else, though it was still a fairly significant fan of communist efforts as they played out in the 1950s and 1960s, and it was no friend to liberalism.
• Critical Social Justice is the intentional fusion of these two schools of thought with the goal of achieving its ideas about “Social Justice” through radical identity politics.

Let me add, I the clear similarity Wokeness seems to Mao’s Cultural Revolution as has been noted over and over by survivors of Maos cultural revolution. . The birthplace of Cultural Marxism was the Frankfort school of Marxism,which evolved into “Identity Marxism” Once one understands this, one can easily understand what is going on with our society at present and understand more clearly than ever why it must be resisted, unless one is a letist.

Though the members of the Frankfort school didn’t coin the term, the idea Frankfort Marxist would name “the long march through the institutions” in the 60's is ultimately the Frankfort schools roadmap to getting Marxism to take hold in the West. Gin their own writings, i read a decade ago they identifies that the “cultural hegemony” of Western cultures prevented Marxism from having any chance of taking root, so they recommended a strategy that seeks to tear apart and capture major cultural institutions, including religion, family, education, media, and law. Mao understood this clearly and used it to devastating effect. The same thing is happening throughout the West today.

How about actually addressing the points made by Viker instead of just another unrelated cut and paste.

 

[Argentbear]

They are backed up, and stand, in regards to all the historical evinced provided

you don't present evidence you just keep cutting and pasting the same tired bits of unsupported claims.

 

[LeftyLen]

How about actually addressing the points made by Viker instead of just another unrelated cut and paste.

1. those are MY thoughts posted from MY old essays. 2. I do not know how one can be more direct, not liking the answers does not renders an answer 'unrelated.'

 

[SkepticThinker]

1. those are MY thoughts posted from MY old essays. 2. I do not know how one can be more direct, not liking the answers does not renders an answer 'unrelated.'

When someone takes the time to respond to your posts, instead of cutting and paste the exact same thing (which you've done countless times), instead, try responding and engaging directly to the content of their post. You know, like a conversation, or a debate (we're in a debate forum, after all).

 

[Argentbear]

1. those are MY thoughts posted from MY old essays. 2. I do not know how one can be more direct, not liking the answers does not renders an answer 'unrelated.'

how about actually addressing the posts