Is Woke a religion?

[Twilight Hue]

Aw, man. Don't do that to me. Don't hide those people from me.

Like a moth to a flame. ;0)

 

[icehorse]

Many liberals and leftists believe in that too, hence their opposition to racism, systemic or otherwise.

Sure, but I'm not saying all liberals are woke. I'm a liberal and I dislike "woke". One common characteristic of the woke are that they place an outsized importance on identity politics. This has led to people like Ibram Kendi getting any sort of air time at all.

If one assumes that an oligarchic class is causing most of society's problems, it seems to me that they're still regarding the perceived oligarchy as the "oppressors."

Again, I think the fight we need to emphasize at this point in time is a class fight. So yes, oligarchs are indeed oppressors, but they don't get anywhere near the bad press they ought to.

For instance, most liberals recognize that gender is not a strict binary but is instead a spectrum. If someone refers to such recognition as "gender ideology," their usage of the term becomes loaded from the get-go.

For months now I've been asking for good, non-circular, useful definitions for "gender" and "gender identity". I'm still waiting.

What "ideas"? You listed a bunch of terms that could be interpreted in various ways depending on the beliefs and preconceived notions of the person reading them. For instance, most liberals recognize that gender is not a strict binary but is instead a spectrum. If someone refers to such recognition as "gender ideology," their usage of the term becomes loaded from the get-go.

Ditto for most of those other terms: someone may support a specific collection of ideas and describe them using one of those terms, but because someone else associates said term with a different collection of ideas or sees the term as inherently negative, they may assume that anyone who agrees with ideas that fall under it is "woke" (in the pejorative sense) or supportive of ideas that the other person using the term may not support in the first place.

No, intersectionality is an idea. The o vs. o worldview is an idea. And so on. Of course they all allow for variety, that does not render the terms "loaded".

So I'll ask you, do you give credence to intersectionality?

 

[LeftyLen]

I don't want to downplay the concerns of progressives. They have gripes. I don't know what 'Cultural marxism' means, however I know what 'Divide and conquer' means and also what riding a horse is or surfing a wave. See a movement and put to use for your own purposes. That's politics.

Cultural marxism refers mostly to the Frankfort school of marxism, in which it moved from the purely economic to cultural. the 'class against class' of marx remains, only oppressors victims more identity politics. There is also the influence of the old Fabian socialism.

 

[icehorse]

Icehorse, dear...

you are delluded. Sorry to say, but you are.

Dear Luis, I would appreciate some specifics, it's unlike you to cough up vague slurs

 

[LeftyLen]

"Hater bigot phobe fascist" are tossed around loosely by the woke, rhetorical bromides used to quell any discourse.

 

[ppp]

"Hater bigot phobe fascist" are tossed around loosely by the woke, rhetorical bromides used to quell any discourse.

How do you tell when "the woke" are tossing the terms around loosely from when "the work" are tossing them around accurately?

 

[The Hammer]

The rise of Woke, cultural marxism, is it a religion?

No

 

[LeftyLen]

How do you tell when "the woke" are tossing the terms around loosely from when "the work" are tossing them around accurately?

On the left side of the spectrum are cultural Marxists, the extreme left Woke who label all who disagree phobes-haters-bigots-fascists. Ironically like the fundamentalist, science is held in contempt by the Woke. Empirical science upholds basic biology, which like the fundamentalists also go against subjective narratives of the woke mob. As I encountered the Woksters online I found promoting facts only earn ad hominem comments leading to their blocking of myself and all who dare disagree. In a group with ‘woke mob’ members I, like all others who disagreed were designated as a ‘phobe-hater-bigot-fascist,’ thus all objective facts presented were dismissed amid frantic cyber arm waving. The facts of biology are clear, no amount of drugs, self-mutilation or ideology will alter XX or XY chromosomes. It was openly declared online by the Woke the facts of biology are of no consequence, subjective feelings transcending objective facts. The Woke promoters of gender ideology brazenly state how one subjectively feels is paramount, and is all that matters. To the woke if one wants to declare themselves a pineapple, basketball, Apache helicopter or another gender, that's what they are and you, with the rest of society must accept it or your a phoebe-hater-bigot-fascist. My banning from a woke dominated group resulted from posting that XX and XY chromosomes are not malleable. The old horseshoe theory, that opposites meet is seen in the similarities between the fundamentalists and woke.



Recently in the break room at work in a discussion with some employees I informed a rather ardent lefty I regularly watch a certain series of well known conservative videos. With a hand wave he dismissed the series of videos as ‘hate-speech’ needing to be banned. I asked the employee if he had seen any of the videos he rendered detestable. The annoyed employee stated ‘I do not need to,‘ as he got up and walked away. The anti free speech woke mob promote the notion many ideas are ‘hate speech.’ ‘Hate speech’ itself is an arbitrary concept, defining it is unachievable, except to the demagogues who promote it as somehow a threat. In the name of diversity, the woke have actually sentenced true diversity of thought to extinction.

 

[LeftyLen]

No

Woke has all the attributes of a religion, i would say they are 'secular fundamentalists."

There's the original woke.

And then there's the straw man woke, an imaginary beast created by right wing media, for ratings mostly, to have something to be mad about, for more ratings. The caveat being tens of millions of clueless actually believe the beast exists. They can't factually identify it, without first exposing why there is an actual woke to begin with.

I am considering the Horseshoe theory here,

The Woke mob departs somewhat from the Marxists of the last hundred years, dressing themselves up in slightly different rhetoric replacing economics with race and sex. Having grown up around fundamentalists and now seeing the growth of Woke there is little to differentiate the secular Woke from the fundamentalists, the similarities are in fact striking.



--The Woke have replaced Marx's ‘proletariat’ with ‘marginalized. ’



--Marx's ‘economic struggle’ is now replaced by ‘intersectionality.‘



--Marx’s utopian fantasy, from socialism to communism has been replaced with the woke fantasy of, ’ inclusive equitable society.’ Both fundamentalism and the woke entertain grand fantasies, utopian visions.



-Marx openly hated democracy which he saw as empowering oppressor/ victim, giving more power to the bourgeoisie with greater abilities to exploit the proletariat. The Woke, unlike liberals are not concerned with equality of opportunity but the equality of outcome. The woke, unlike the traditional Marxists see oppressor/victim as primarily racial and sexual with only an omnipotent state structure the means to enforce ‘equity.’ Democratic institutions to the woke are inherently phobe-hater-bigot-fascist, and racist, and, in lockstep with Marxism, as a consequence must be overturned.



---For the Marxist totalitarian the collectivist ideal is the goal, not the individual who must be subservient to the collective ideals, that has stayed the same with the emergence of Woke.



--Both protestant fundamentalism and Woke hold subjectivity above objective facts rendering both religions, their narratives, dogmatically foisted are religious claims.



--A common saying among the Woke faithful is ‘Your truth/my truth’ meaning no objective standard for truth exists. The fundamentalists say they know something is true ‘in their heart,’ further examples of both being religious.



--Both are ridged and dogmatic thus rejecting debate or critical analysis. The fundamentalists say free inquiry, open debate gives open air to Satan and his minions, declaring debate should be suppressed because it breeds ‘contentiousness.’ The Woke say debate gives exploitative powers to various oppressors. Other reasons offered by the woke to suppress debate and discourse in general are declarations like, “debate causes division!” Open debate is expository, revealing in the dialectic process objective facts and sometimes truth. When one accepts objective reality lies are short circuited thus facts have no fear of free inquiry or open debate. A lie hates free inquiry and as a consequence totalitarians strive to suppress free inquiry, free speech and debate. Once I knew an exchange student raised in a dictatorship. This young woman openly stated ‘debate’ about government policies in her country was considered ‘disrespectful ‘ to authority. I asked the young lady “Why in a democratic republic does anyone with any civil authority need to be ‘respected,’ exalted in any way more than anyone else?” I added the mere notion that ‘government’ knows whats best is something beyond my understanding of what the function of government is. To my points the young lady had no rebuttal, rendered uneasy by the topic matter.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Cultural marxism refers mostly to the Frankfort school of marxism, in which it moved from the purely economic to cultural. the 'class against class' of marx remains, only oppressors victims more identity politics. There is also the influence of the old Fabian socialism.

So I have to ask. What is religion? What is western culture? What is the correct morality to you?

 

[LeftyLen]

So I have to ask. What is religion? What is western culture? What is the correct morality to you?

rather generic? defining religion is rather clear. western culture is also vague. My belief is in absolute pluralism

 

[ppp]

On the left side of the spectrum are cultural Marxists, the extreme left Woke who label all who disagree phobes-haters-bigots-fascists. Ironically like the fundamentalist, science is held in contempt by the Woke. Empirical science upholds basic biology, which like the fundamentalists also go against subjective narratives of the woke mob. As I

That's not a coherent set of sentences, let alone an attempt to answer my question. Can you answer my question in a succinct manner?

 

[LeftyLen]

There's the original woke.

And then there's the straw man woke, an imaginary beast created by right wing media, for ratings mostly, to have something to be mad about, for more ratings. The caveat being tens of millions of clueless actually believe the beast exists. They can't factually identify it, without first exposing why there is an actual woke to begin with.

Clear definition cultural marxism;

The Woke mob departs somewhat from the Marxists of the last hundred years, dressing themselves up in slightly different rhetoric replacing economics with race and sex. Having grown up around fundamentalists and now seeing the growth of Woke there is little to differentiate the secular Woke from the fundamentalists, the similarities are in fact striking.



--The Woke have replaced Marx's ‘proletariat’ with ‘marginalized. ’



--Marx's ‘economic struggle’ is now replaced by ‘intersectionality.‘



--Marx’s utopian fantasy, from socialism to communism has been replaced with the woke fantasy of, ’ inclusive equitable society.’ Both fundamentalism and the woke entertain grand fantasies, utopian visions.



-Marx openly hated democracy which he saw as empowering oppressor/ victim, giving more power to the bourgeoisie with greater abilities to exploit the proletariat. The Woke, unlike liberals are not concerned with equality of opportunity but the equality of outcome. The woke, unlike the traditional Marxists see oppressor/victim as primarily racial and sexual with only an omnipotent state structure the means to enforce ‘equity.’ Democratic institutions to the woke are inherently phobe-hater-bigot-fascist, and racist, and, in lockstep with Marxism, as a consequence must be overturned.



---For the Marxist totalitarian the collectivist ideal is the goal, not the individual who must be subservient to the collective ideals, that has stayed the same with the emergence of Woke.



--Both protestant fundamentalism and Woke hold subjectivity above objective facts rendering both religions, their narratives, dogmatically foisted are religious claims.



--A common saying among the Woke faithful is ‘Your truth/my truth’ meaning no objective standard for truth exists. The fundamentalists say they know something is true ‘in their heart,’ further examples of both being religious.



--Both are ridged and dogmatic thus rejecting debate or critical analysis. The fundamentalists say free inquiry, open debate gives open air to Satan and his minions, declaring debate should be suppressed because it breeds ‘contentiousness.’ The Woke say debate gives exploitative powers to various oppressors. Other reasons offered by the woke to suppress debate and discourse in general are declarations like, “debate causes division!” Open debate is expository, revealing in the dialectic process objective facts and sometimes truth. When one accepts objective reality lies are short circuited thus facts have no fear of free inquiry or open debate. A lie hates free inquiry and as a consequence totalitarians strive to suppress free inquiry, free speech and debate. Once I knew an exchange student raised in a dictatorship. This young woman openly stated ‘debate’ about government policies in her country was considered ‘disrespectful ‘ to authority. I asked the young lady “Why in a democratic republic does anyone with any civil authority need to be ‘respected,’ exalted in any way more than anyone else?” I added the mere notion that ‘government’ knows whats best is something beyond my understanding of what the function of government is. To my points the young lady had no rebuttal, rendered uneasy by the topic matter.

 

[LeftyLen]

That's not a coherent set of sentences, let alone an attempt to answer my question. Can you answer my question in a succinct manner?

again, Woke is cultural marxism. I view the woke as a form of 'secular fundamentalists.' The Woke mob departs somewhat from the Marxists of the last hundred years, dressing themselves up in slightly different rhetoric replacing economics with race and sex. Having grown up around fundamentalists and now seeing the growth of Woke there is little to differentiate the secular Woke from the fundamentalists, the similarities are in fact striking.



--The Woke have replaced Marx's ‘proletariat’ with ‘marginalized. ’



--Marx's ‘economic struggle’ is now replaced by ‘intersectionality.‘



--Marx’s utopian fantasy, from socialism to communism has been replaced with the woke fantasy of, ’ inclusive equitable society.’ Both fundamentalism and the woke entertain grand fantasies, utopian visions.



-Marx openly hated democracy which he saw as empowering oppressor/ victim, giving more power to the bourgeoisie with greater abilities to exploit the proletariat. The Woke, unlike liberals are not concerned with equality of opportunity but the equality of outcome. The woke, unlike the traditional Marxists see oppressor/victim as primarily racial and sexual with only an omnipotent state structure the means to enforce ‘equity.’ Democratic institutions to the woke are inherently phobe-hater-bigot-fascist, and racist, and, in lockstep with Marxism, as a consequence must be overturned.



---For the Marxist totalitarian the collectivist ideal is the goal, not the individual who must be subservient to the collective ideals, that has stayed the same with the emergence of Woke.



--Both protestant fundamentalism and Woke hold subjectivity above objective facts rendering both religions, their narratives, dogmatically foisted are religious claims.



--A common saying among the Woke faithful is ‘Your truth/my truth’ meaning no objective standard for truth exists. The fundamentalists say they know something is true ‘in their heart,’ further examples of both being religious.



--Both are ridged and dogmatic thus rejecting debate or critical analysis. The fundamentalists say free inquiry, open debate gives open air to Satan and his minions, declaring debate should be suppressed because it breeds ‘contentiousness.’ The Woke say debate gives exploitative powers to various oppressors. Other reasons offered by the woke to suppress debate and discourse in general are declarations like, “debate causes division!” Open debate is expository, revealing in the dialectic process objective facts and sometimes truth. When one accepts objective reality lies are short circuited thus facts have no fear of free inquiry or open debate. A lie hates free inquiry and as a consequence totalitarians strive to suppress free inquiry, free speech and debate. Once I knew an exchange student raised in a dictatorship. This young woman openly stated ‘debate’ about government policies in her country was considered ‘disrespectful ‘ to authority. I asked the young lady “Why in a democratic republic does anyone with any civil authority need to be ‘respected,’ exalted in any way more than anyone else?” I added the mere notion that ‘government’ knows whats best is something beyond my understanding of what the function of government is. To my points the young lady had no rebuttal, rendered uneasy by the topic matter.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

rather generic? defining religion is rather clear. western culture is also vague. My belief is in absolute pluralism

Well, you have used the terms religion and western culture. So what do you mean by those?

 

[The Hammer]

Woke has all the attributes of a religion, i would say they are 'secular fundamentalists."

Nope.

And it seems nothing will change your mind, so this isn't really a debate. With that I'll stick with what I said above.

Nope.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...
--A common saying among the Woke faithful is ‘Your truth/my truth’ meaning no objective standard for truth exists. The fundamentalists say they know something is true ‘in their heart,’ further examples of both being religious.
...

So what is objective? And what is the objective standadrd for truth?

 

[LeftyLen]

That's not a coherent set of sentences, let alone an attempt to answer my question. Can you answer my question in a succinct manner?

those three questions so vague, it would take a thesis paper to answer each one, if thats what your asking

 

[ppp]

again, Woke is cultural marxism

Again. Not an answer to my question. It's not worth my effort to read any further.

 

[LeftyLen]

So what is objective? And what is the objective standadrd for truth?

Objective, empirical falsifiable evidence as opposed to subjective beliefs