ISIL, Taliban = True Islam??

[firedragon]

They all say something along the lines of "Too young to have started menstruation"

Yeah. But its not in the Quran.

 

[firedragon]

No idea what you are on about here.
1. Hadith are an integral part of Islamic ideology and belief.
2. I cite hadith where relevant because they are an integral part of Islamic ideology and belief.
Not sure how much clearer I can make it.

But you believe in hadith blindly. Muslims dont.

 

[firedragon]

Ah, the "I shall ignore the existence of hadith when it suits me" argument.

Nope. I gave you many scholar nuances which since you dont have an intention to follow up with, nor the basic knowledge, you ignored it all.

Nevertheless, it is you who believes hadith to insult Islam but otherwise you dont. So obviously you think others are just like you.

 

[firedragon]

So you admit that Ibn Abbas' tafsir does contain that interpretation.

Nope.

The issue is the age those women were married!

They are called Annisaa. Women. Not babies, young girls, prepubescent or anything.

I will repeat a 100 times, you will ignore it a million times. No problem.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If you claim that the Quran forbids marriage to anyone as young as 6 (despite it containing no verses that include such a prohibition) you would have explain why Muhammad married a 6 year old girl (on Allah's instruction, according to some scholars).

It's already been explained in this thread.
It is possible to marry a girl before they reach puberty, by an agreement with her parents.

Marriage should not be consummated before puberty.
Suggesting that G-d says it is OK to do so is your opinion.
That is not what I believe, nor is it the belief of Muslims in general.

 

[firedragon]

@KWED

You said I have no knowledge in Classical Arabic right? TO criticise others you should have some ability right?

So could you give me a few examples of differences between Classical Arabic and the modern day arabic?

Lets say, how about a word like "Dhurabauhoo". How would it differ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[KWED]

Wow .. so the Muslims have all been "hoodwinked"

By definition, if Islam is not true, all Muslims have been hoodwinked.
Given that all religions claim to be true but all cannot be true, and there is no evidence to support any of their claims, it is entirely likely that all Muslims have indeed been hoodwinked.

People who claim that "there is no god", despite the evidence to the contrary have their reasons.

And yet religionists are unable to present anything that amounts to actual "evidence". They only provide assertions and beliefs and fallacies and misunderstandings.

They say "there is no objective evidence, it is all lies".
G-d tells us "Those whom Allah sendeth astray, there is no guide for them. He leaveth them to wander blindly on in their contumacy".

So there is objective evidence, but Allah has deliberately blinded billions of people to it. So where is their free will?

Some of us are believers, and some are not.
That is the ordinance of God, the Most High.
He knows that which He created.

Once again you are showing that belief is something determined by god, not by our free will.

I have noticed that when religionists find their arguments being constantly refuted or their contradictions highlighted, they often revert to dogmatic platitudes.

 

[KWED]

I get it. You hate Islam.

If someone hates racism or misogyny, do you similarly dismiss their arguments against those things?
(Although I havent seen anything that constitutes "hate" in their posts, just reasonable criticism)

 

[KWED]

Islam is not defined by scholars,

Perhaps you are not familiar with how Islam works.
Deferring to the knowledge and interpretations of classical scholars is an integral part of understanding the Quran. Watch any lecture about Islam or Quran exegesis by Muslim speakers and you will see constant references to these scholars.
It is highly hypocritical to accept these scholars when it suits but reject them when it doesn't.

particularly ones that have been cherry-picked,

They are simply the tafsir I have access to. If you favour a different tafsir, feel free to present it.

and lived in times long ago.

Muhammad "lived in times long ago". Do you similarly dismiss his pronouncements ar no longer relevant or meaningful?

If somebody with knowledge answers your apparent anomaly, you will just change tack onto another subject, and not acknowledge it.

It is not an "apparent anomaly" It is the clear interpretation of several renowned scholars.
If someone presents a similar number of similarly authoritative scholars who clearly explain that the verse does not refer to "those too young to have started menstruation", I will accept that as a reasonable counter argument, but I will probably also use it as evidence for the ambiguous and contradictory nature of the Quran and Islam.

BTW, I try to address every response. I get quite a few so might miss some. Feel free to point out any that I have missed.

 

[KWED]

You said I have no knowledge in Classical Arabic right?

Wrong.

Unlike you to present a dishonest straw man. What's got into you brother?

 

[KWED]

Yeah. But its not in the Quran.

Oh sorry. I did not realise you are a Quranist.
Fair enough. We can therefore agree that the Quran is unclear on the issue and leave it at that.
Sorry to have wasted your time.

 

[KWED]

But you believe in hadith blindly. Muslims dont.

I accept that hadith are an integral part of Islamic ideology and belief.
Which of those words are you struggling with.

 

[firedragon]

Oh sorry. I did not realise you are a Quranist.
Fair enough. We can therefore agree that the Quran is unclear on the issue and leave it at that.
Sorry to have wasted your time.

More speculation.

The Quran is Muhaymeenoon mate. Maybe if you just put a bit of time into theology you will know. And I have already given you many discussions on it. Basics. If you wish, you can learn.

 

[KWED]

Nope. I gave you many scholar nuances which since you dont have an intention to follow up with, nor the basic knowledge, you ignored it all.

Nevertheless, it is you who believes hadith to insult Islam but otherwise you dont. So obviously you think others are just like you.

 

[firedragon]

I accept that hadith are an integral part of Islamic ideology and belief.
Which of those words are you struggling with.

Yeah. But you believe them blindly. Muslims dont. I have given you the discussions. Try to engage with them.

 

[firedragon]

Wrong.

Unlike you to present a dishonest straw man. What's got into you brother?

Thats what you said mate. Its a steal man. So never mind. It seems like you are taking it back without admitting to it. No problem .

 

[muhammad_isa]

So there is objective evidence, but Allah has deliberately blinded billions of people to it. So where is their free will?

You can't understand this because you are "deliberately blinded".
Allah SWT is not a person. He is closer to you than your jugular vein.
He is "part of you", if you will.

So how does G-d "deliberately blind" somebody?
It is well known in psychology, that a person can consciously believe something to be true or false, while their unconscious believes the OPPOSITE.
In effect, by one's initial choice to deny, one blinds themself.
That means that it is not G-d, as in third person, that is responsible. Free-will is not negated, as if a person deep down in their unconscious mind "cries out for change", they can do so.

Once again you are showing that belief is something determined by god, not by our free will.

No, as I have explained above. It is not the case.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You can't understand this because you are "deliberately blinded".
Allah SWT is not a person. He is closer to you than your jugular vein.
He is "part of you", if you will.

So how does G-d "deliberately blind" somebody?
It is well known in psychology, that a person can consciously believe something to be true or false, while their unconscious believes the OPPOSITE.
In effect, by one's initial choice to deny, one blinds themself.
That means that it is not G-d, as in third person, that is responsible. Free-will is not negated, as if a person deep down in their unconscious mind "cries out for change", they can do so.


No, as I have explained above. It is not the case.

Yeah, the rest of "us" are whatever negative, but you are not a "you", because "you" are special.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

People who claim that "there is no god", despite the evidence to the contrary have their reasons.

What evidence?

 

[KWED]

Nope.

OK. Then prove that it doesn't.

They are called Annisaa. Women. Not babies, young girls, prepubescent or anything.
I will repeat a 100 times, you will ignore it a million times. No problem.

Oh dear. Let's try again...
If Allah is referring to females who have already been married, they he can use a term that refers to married females.
If a female can be married age 6, then the term is applicable to a married female age 6. Because she is married.