ISIS creates sex slave jail with Yezidi women

[LuisDantas]

So killing to protect innocent people is worse than victimizing innocent people?

Yes.

It actually is, if it is done in such a way as to spread more hatred and violence.

Such as by building and using drones and other war machines.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes.

It actually is, if it is done in such a way as to spread more hatred and violence.

Such as by building and using drones and other war machines.

How bizarre.

 

[icehorse]

Yes.

It actually is, if it is done in such a way as to spread more hatred and violence.

Such as by building and using drones and other war machines.

Your post got me thinking... We know Israel sometimes gives Palestinians warnings of some sort before launching a missile. What if instead of previewing with a warning, Israel previewed with an aid drop somewhere close to the target, but out of harm's way. Would it be logistically feasible to do that? That might start winning some good will. (Of course we could do similar as we deal with ISIS.)

 

[LuisDantas]

Your post got me thinking... We know Israel sometimes gives Palestinians warnings of some sort before launching a missile. What if instead of previewing with a warning, Israel previewed with an aid drop somewhere close to the target, but out of harm's way. Would it be logistically feasible to do that? That might start winning some good will. (Of course we could do similar as we deal with ISIS.)

That might be worth a try. But realistically, it takes some actual reaching out for a solution to be expected.

 

[LuisDantas]

How bizarre.

You mean it, don't you?

 

[Alceste]

From the article referenced above …

​

But what are they really like?

I did read it. I forgot to come back and say that it answered many of my questions. The missing info now is to look up what strategies are actually effective for undermining the success of such a movement. (I don't think war is a serious contender in that department).

As for what they are like, I think they are rather like the Nazis in their aspirations and psychology, and rose to power in similar circumstances - the anarchic aftermath of a totally pointless war.

 

[Alceste]

Assymetric warfare is needed.....military intelligence, non-traditional armed forces and strikes, and economic development and education....these last ones must not be underestimated...they are the most important...they will take a long time.....but they're faster and more effective than violence.

Yeah, that sounds about right to me.

 

[Avi1001]

Yeah, that sounds about right to me.

Thnx. I am trying to develop a logical and consistent argument to convince these right wing war mongers that they need to think more deeply and carefully about this situation. But it's difficult to deal with people who prefer not to think, but would rather just do the same thing we've been doing the last 70 years !

 

[xkatz]

Muh nirvana fallacy!

 

[Avi1001]

Muh nirvana fallacy!

Xkatz, your are my main target audience.

 

[Shad]

You are probably right... but I still don't think it is defensable to use drones.

I do not think so either as it just dehumanizes the concept of war even further. However war is what it is. We often rationalize our actions in a war by the results or the goals. Negative acts are downplayed for the sake of the "Greater Good".

 

[LuisDantas]

And that only furthers radicalism. When it is tribal people versus state-of-the-art drones, one side ends up having to know that their enemies are brutal monsters that must die. And the other side learns that for a fact.

 

[Poeticus]

 

[Flankerl]

And that only furthers radicalism. When it is tribal people versus state-of-the-art drones, one side ends up having to know that their enemies are brutal monsters that must die. And the other side learns that for a fact.

Oh no poor IS. Those poor souls are totally misunderstood.

 

[LuisDantas]

Oh no poor IS. Those poor souls are totally misunderstood.

No, they are dangerous and terrible, albeit miserable in their own way.

All the more reason for us not to be.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The USA has already been drawn into this conflict. Our strategy is to avoid being framed as the bad guy. ISIS strategy is to be a little bad guy (waving the black flag) to draw us in and frame us as the big bad buy, then disappear. If it accomplishes its goals, ISIS can dissipate with us left standing holding the bad guy sign and Israel as well. All of the pointless killing ISIS does, and its goal is to confuse people about good and evil by spreading poop on everybody. This is the same strategy used by Hamas, and it was the strategy of Sadam Hussein. 1. Provoke 2. Run away 3. Blame

 

[Alceste]

You know being a pacifist is okay. But you just have to accept that you cant beat someone like IS without military force.

That's what they said about al Qaeda, and now we have IS. Do you think perhaps the M.E. and the world was rather better off before the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq?

The whole reason al Qaeda wanted to provoke a war was to help them radicalise and recruit angry young men. Looking at the territory now controlled by Islamists, they were spectacularly successful. Should we do exactly what IS wants us to do? Don't you think that's foolish?

 

[Alceste]

China should be invited and Russia. USA and Israel should stay out of the conflict.

ISIS is consciously fighting to distort and embarrass morality by provoking good people. The people they kill and the atrocities they commit are to goad USA (and by proxy the UN and West) into making questionable moral decisions. It is not about the territory only. The real strength of USA is concepts of morality, and these dudes have actually thought it through and contrived to undermine that.

I'm not so sure about that. Nobody outside America views America as uniquely moral.

 

[sandandfoam]

I'm not so sure about that. Nobody outside America views America as uniquely moral.

Moral? I think it is pretty corrupted.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm not so sure about that. Nobody outside America views America as uniquely moral.

Let me rephrase that. It is modern morality that is being called on the carpet. The goal is to tarnish modern morality, not specifically the USA's reputation. It is to frame modern life as evil specifically to Muslims.