Isis: Threat to the Civilized World

[Servant_of_the_One1]

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The question is: who paved the way for Dawlatul Islam to emerge?
That would be the illegal invasion of the Americans and their allies in Iraq. Overthrowing Saddam Hussein created this chaos. He was then replaced by draconian dictators Maliki and now Haider Al-Abadi. They arrested many sunni youth, killed many of them, raped the sunni women, discriminated the rights of Iraqi sunnis. So that gave more support and strength to Islamic State. The Iraqi sunni tribes dont have love for Islamic State, however they use them as proxywar against corrupted dictators.

 

[Underhill]

I don't know, it seems as though you're trying to place a greater value on the lives of humans than you do ants. I'd like to know why. When you have a nest of carpenter ants in your yard or crawl space, you can't be sure which exact ants are responsible for digesting your home into ruins. If you kill the entire colony of ants, you remove the threat. And do please tell me what the moral implications are for destroying the entire nest.

I am trying? Our society does, has and probably always will (if it wants to survive) value humans over ants for the same reason murder is illegal and hiring an exterminator isn't. Of course we place a much higher value on human life than insects.

And your logic just doesn't work. When the Germans invaded Europe we didn't wipe out every man woman and child. Even when Japan bombed us at Pearl Harbor we didn't go that far.

And even those examples are much simpler cases. ISIS isn't a country. We can't nuke Syria or Iraq to send a message. They are a minority group of tyrannical ********. But many muslims see us in much the same light. So if we go too far we become the evil Americans killing innocent muslims. Slaughtering masses of people in either country would simply win them more converts from all over the globe.

 

[Sonofason]

I am trying? Our society does, has and probably always will (if it wants to survive) value humans over ants for the same reason murder is illegal and hiring an exterminator isn't. Of course we place a much higher value on human life than insects.

And your logic just doesn't work. When the Germans invaded Europe we didn't wipe out every man woman and child. Even when Japan bombed us at Pearl Harbor we didn't go that far.

And even those examples are much simpler cases. ISIS isn't a country. We can't nuke Syria or Iraq to send a message. They are a minority group of tyrannical ********. But many muslims see us in much the same light. So if we go too far we become the evil Americans killing innocent muslims. Slaughtering masses of people in either country would simply win them more converts from all over the globe.

I honestly don't believe you answered any of my questions. You suggested that if we were to eliminate the entire nest of ants that we would have to consider ourselves evil for some reason. Can you please explain what is wrong with being evil? Is that a problem?

 

[Underhill]

I honestly don't believe you answered any of my questions. You suggested that if we were to eliminate the entire nest of ants that we would have to consider ourselves evil for some reason. Can you please explain what is wrong with being evil? Is that a problem?

I'm not going to argue fundamental concepts of human existence that have been established for centuries.

 

[Sonofason]

I'm not going to argue fundamental concepts of human existence that have been established for centuries.

Well surely, if the concept of evil is so fundamental to human existence, surely you can explain how you and others determine if something is evil or not.

 

[Underhill]

Well surely, if the concept of evil is so fundamental to human existence, surely you can explain how you and others determine if something is evil or not.

Someone who tries to manufacture conflict for his own enjoyment would be high on the list of qualifications...

 

[fschmidt]

I completely understand the Islamic State. They are wrong, but I understand them because I hate modern culture just as much as they do. Why do you think they are attracting people from all over the world? Because individuals all over the world are realizing how evil and horrible modern culture is. The problem is that there are so few alternatives to the horror of modern culture. The Islamic State takes advantage of this and attracts those who want to fight back against the evil modern world. The solution would be to create more alternatives to modern culture for those of us who hate it.

 

[Sonofason]

Someone who tries to manufacture conflict for his own enjoyment would be high on the list of qualifications...

That is a wonderful opinion. It's too bad that's all it is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Rather than fighting them there are better alternatives. The best one is to quit giving those groups (ISIS is hardly the only one) weapons, and criminalize selling them to any such groups. Even if the government wants to see them as an ally now, do not arm them! The next best option is to let the Middle Eastern people control their own land and their own resources, and control their own governments without American/Western pressure to become a democracy. This also includes letting them draw their own borders and boundaries, rather than forcing them to accept what was given to them. We also must be more strict in enforcing things that fund those groups, such as illegal ivory sales.
These groups will not be defeated with guns, bullets, and bombs and any attempts to defeat them with such methods will only create more groups and more problems. We must change the way we deal with the Middle East if we are ever to expect things to show even a little improvement. One of the other greatest improvements would be to keep any and all war profiteers out of any and all dealings with the Middle East.

 

[Underhill]

That is a wonderful opinion. It's too bad that's all it is.

If you want more a discussion forum may not be the place for you...

 

[Sonofason]

If you want more a discussion forum may not be the place for you...

Actually, I had asked for you to show me how you determine whether or not something is evil, but all you have done is apply the term evil to someone who might deliberately cause conflict. I'm simply asking how you know that one who enjoys causing conflict should be considered evil. What exists that you can point to which enables you to make such determinations, and what value can we place on these determinations if indeed they are, as I suspect, purely speculative and subjective opinions. Why should your opinion be valued by anyone with regard to understanding evil, which you have claimed is a most basic and fundamental concept of human beings. Where is your evidence? On what basis do you support such a personal and subjective opinion.

 

[Godobeyer]

The ISIS and Takfiri or Wahabi groups are the enemiesy of all Muslims and all mankind , so we the Muslims are on the ground fighting these idiots .

I know it's just matter of time and we will eliminate them in Syria and Iraq...etc,as we eliminated them in Algeria before .

 

[Sonofason]

The ISIS and Takfiri or Wahabi groups are the enemiesy of all Muslims and all mankind , so we the Muslims are on the ground fighting these idiots .

I know it's just matter of time and we will eliminate them in Syria and Iraq...etc,as we eliminated them in Algeria before .

I hope you do. I hope we do.

 

[Godobeyer]

I hope you do. I hope we do.

I don't know if you realise that , Iraq and Syria is Muslim land , and Muslims are in the ground fighting them. Syrian and Iraqi Armies and Kurds.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

What we must do is cruel yet clear: We must kill, burn and blow them away until not a man is left that will take up the name of Isis. We must wage unceasing warfare until every vestige of their murderous rampage is ended.

But what is the "civilized world" and does it include moderate Muslims who're non-affiliated to ISIS?

Or is your definition of "civilization" specifically in referral to Christian countries in N. America and Europe?

Basically, I don't see how ISIS can be a threat to the latter given its limited military capability; it doesn't have the ability to project its military power to be a threat to N. America and Europe.

So I think you have vastly overrated this so-called "threat to the civilized world" because they're not strong enough to be a threat to any country which is a regional power, e.g. such as Turkey, Iran, and Saudi Arabia etc.

And they're certainly not strong enough to threaten Israel. Do you know how many nuclear warheads the Israelis have got?

Probably more than enough to wipe out the entire region!

ISIS is cruel, evil, and barbaric without any doubt; but are they strong enough to be a threat to Iran, Turkey, Russia, and NATO?

So are they strong enough to threaten the civilized world?

Well, the answer must be a resounding "No!"

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

This does not mean that individuals might not be also motivated, by power, greed, self interest and political interests.

But what do you mean by "power, greed, self interest and political interests"?

For ISIS is just a pathetic third world organization. Can't see who would want to join it.

 

[Sonofason]

I don't know if you realise that , Iraq and Syria is Muslim land , and Muslims are in the ground fighting them. Syrian and Iraqi Armies and Kurds.

I certainly realize people are fighting the scum that are beheading people, but I don't see how Iraq and Syria is Muslim land. Christians, Yazidis, Jews, Mandaeans, Zoroastrians, dwell in those lands, and no one religion has the right to authority over any land. Those lands belong to people, not religion, especially not the Muslim religion.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

I certainly realize people are fighting the scum that are beheading people, but I don't see how Iraq and Syria is Muslim land. Christians, Yazidis, Jews, Mandaeans, Zoroastrians, dwell in those lands, and no one religion has the right to authority over any land. Those lands belong to people, not religion, especially not the Muslim religion.

Listen, I am neither Arab, nor Muslim. But perhaps the Muslims have a point when they claim that it's their territory; as they are indeed the dominant religion in the Middle East?

Do whites not have a rightful claim to N. America by virtue of numerical superiority?

Whites do not claim exclusive right to the Americas, but they certainly claim to be the dominant ethno-religious group in N. America.

By the same token, the Muslims in Iraq and Syria claim to be the dominant ethno-religious population, although they do not claim exclusive rights to this territory.

 

[Frank Bunneh]

Whites do not claim exclusive right to the Americas, but they certainly claim to be the dominant ethno-religious group in N. America.

I'm not sure where anyone made that claim but it would make sense if they did since whites make up 79.96% of the population according to the C.I.A. World Fact Book- interesting site BTW:
Race:
"white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)"
Religions:
"Protestant 51.3%, Roman Catholic 23.9%, Mormon 1.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Jewish 1.7%, Buddhist 0.7%, Muslim 0.6%, other or unspecified 2.5%, unaffiliated 12.1%, none 4% (2007 est.)"
The World Factbook

Iraq:
"Arab 75%-80%, Kurdish 15%-20%, Turkoman, Assyrian, or other 5%"

"Muslim (official) 99% (Shia 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian 0.8%, Hindu <.1, Buddhist <.1, Jewish <.1, folk religion <.1, unafilliated .1, other <.1
note: while there has been voluntary relocation of many Christian families to northern Iraq, recent reporting indicates that the overall Christian population may have dropped by as much as 50 percent since the fall of the Saddam HUSSEIN regime in 2003, with many fleeing to Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon (2010 est.)"

Syria:
"Arab 90.3%, Kurds, Armenians, and other 9.7%"

"Muslim 87% (official; includes Sunni 74% and Alawi, Ismaili, and Shia 13%), Christian (includes Orthodox, Uniate, and Nestorian) 10% (includes Orthodox, Uniate, and Nestorian), Druze 3%, Jewish (few remaining in Damascus and Aleppo)"

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

I'm not sure where anyone made that claim but it would make sense if they did since whites make up 79.96% of the population according to the C.I.A. World Fact Book- interesting site BTW:

But I think most people would make such a claim despite difference in race, creed, and colour.

Because most people aren't stupid to ignore facts which are so overwhelming that you don't require statistics to show it.