Islam and people who wear the hijab

[Sabour]

One-answer, I was once in your place. I was a Sunni Muslim and I was OK with the fact that God hated the polytheists and will roast them in hellfire for eternity, NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY WERE. I used to tell myself, "Well if those polytheists want to save themselves then they can just do that by accepting Islam!" I was a shameless and heartless being then! Then when I read how the Quran commands the male Muslims to have sex with their female slaves without marriage and what the Hadith tells about how the female captives were treated, I cried. I put myself in their place and in the shoes of the polytheists who will burn forever in hell. I imagined their pain. And I was no longer the same.

First you were never in my place.

Second Allah doesn't hate any one.

Third, Allah would judge each one accordingly and not all non muslims would go to hell. There are people who never heard about Islam or Islam reached them in a wrong way just like everyone who thinks Islam is terrorism. These people will have their own test in the final day and won't be judged to Hell because they never heard about Islam or thought Islam was evil.

Fourth, Hadith is completely taken out of context and enemies of Islam are doing a pretty good job at it.

Fifth, Quraan is taken as a whole and you can't take part of it and says so Quraan says this and that. You have to understand the whole picture by reading all the Quraan. You should also refer to hadith when available and understand the context of the verse and refer to explanations when meaning isn't clear.

Sixth, Allah would be just to everyone and no one will ever object to the justice of God in the final day. Every one will be judged according to what he did and every one who would make good even in the size of an atom will find it on the day of judgement.

I wish you go to youtube and wath "authority of hadith" for yusuf estes.

I guess your problems with Islam and doubts over it started with Hadith.

 

[Mycroft]

Totally false, Read both of these links that Ive already posted

I think that even the most casual observer of Muslim culture shows that they are, at the very least, tacitly pro slavery. From their opinions of non-muslims to the treatment of women.

Can you honestly tell these honourable members that, if slavery were legalised, Muslims would reject it?

 

[Sabour]

I think that even the most casual observer of Muslim culture shows that they are, at the very least, tacitly pro slavery. From their opinions of non-muslims to the treatment of women.

Can you honestly tell these honourable members that, if slavery were legalised, Muslims would reject it?

True muslims would reject it.

Slavery was there before Islam and Islam was stopping slavery step by step.

Being already there and dealing with it is one thing while being not there and legalizing it is another.

 

[Looncall]

True muslims would reject it.

Slavery was there before Islam and Islam was stopping slavery step by step.

Being already there and dealing with it is one thing while being not there and legalizing it is another.

Snatching people for slaves from Turkey to Iceland well into the 19th century sure seems a strange way of stopping slavery.

What is in your books counts for less than what people do.

 

[Sabour]

Snatching people for slaves from Turkey to Iceland well into the 19th century sure seems a strange way of stopping slavery.

What is in your books counts for less than what people do.

Talking about such things will be pointless as there are many variables and manipulation in such events

 

[outhouse]

Talking about such things will be pointless as there are many variables and manipulation in such events

Communicating events is how we recognize right and wrong.


To deny or avoid topics, and no intellectual growth happens.

 

[Draupadi]

@One-answer, I thought you were in my place when I wrongly assumed that you had qualms about slavery. But you don't. You support it. And I also don't want to argue with people who says that uncomfortable hadiths are wrong, when it doesn't suit their purpose, even though they are considered sahih. I don't need to list for the readers of this forum the number of GENUINE HADITHS where Muhammad and his followers ill-treated their slaves, especially the women. In one such hadith never condemned a bunch of his followers who were curious whether they should do coitus interruptus, because they knew that pregnant women would bring less money! He neither asked them to free them, stop having intercourse with them, marry them or stop selling them! And some people are delusioned to think that those women volunteered to be the concubines of their prisoners and murderers of their families!
When it comes to adultery or worship of idols the Muslims never took gradual steps to stop it. But when it comes to slavery you go slow. Wow. Surprising because I REPEAT THE ISLAMIC SCRIPTURES NEVER ASKED THE MUSLIMS TO ABOLISH SLAVERY, although it gave rooms to free them but that too for the owner's sawab gaining and it depends on their humanity.

I am just too shocked at your ideals and don't want to argue further.

 

[Draupadi]

And God said that all polytheists will go to hell not only the bad ones. You seem to have no problems about being pro slavery as Islam says so embrace this fact proudly.

 

[outhouse]

And God said that all polytheists will go to hell not only the bad ones. .

Did he?


Or did an unknown/known author write that is where they would go?

 

[Sabour]

@One-answer, I thought you were in my place when I wrongly assumed that you had qualms about slavery. But you don't. You support it. And I also don't want to argue with people who says that uncomfortable hadiths are wrong, when it doesn't suit their purpose, even though they are considered sahih. I don't need to list for the readers of this forum the number of GENUINE HADITHS where Muhammad and his followers ill-treated their slaves, especially the women. In one such hadith never condemned a bunch of his followers who were curious whether they should do coitus interruptus, because they knew that pregnant women would bring less money! He neither asked them to free them, stop having intercourse with them, marry them or stop selling them! And some people are delusioned to think that those women volunteered to be the concubines of their prisoners and murderers of their families!
When it comes to adultery or worship of idols the Muslims never took gradual steps to stop it. But when it comes to slavery you go slow. Wow. Surprising because I REPEAT THE ISLAMIC SCRIPTURES NEVER ASKED THE MUSLIMS TO ABOLISH SLAVERY, although it gave rooms to free them but that too for the owner's sawab gaining and it depends on their humanity.

I am just too shocked at your ideals and don't want to argue further.

Where did I do what you are accusing me of doing?

Check when liclon stopped slavery and see the results. Did this solve the problem ?

 

[Draupadi]

I will do a research on Lincoln and then compare with the articles you have provided. But just because Muslims feel like freeing slaves or your Scriptures recommend it does not mean that God has asked to abolish it. Nowhere the Quran stated to strive to abolish slavery and the hadiths provide examples that back it up. When fundamentalist Muslims kill others you say that it is not Islam. In the same way when you say that Islam wants slavery stopped I say that's not Islam. Sorry to sound rude but Lincoln strove to abolish slavery out of his conscience not because the Bible said. Same way if Muslims today want to abolish slavery it's not because of Islam. Freeing slaves is optional and not mandatory so according to your faith it must exist.

I said you were pro slavery from your previous posts. Even Quatermass noticed it. And as for cherry picking authentic hadith one of your previous posts proved that. I mentioned a sahih hadith in my last post but you couldn't tell me how it was taken out of context by me. Contrary to what you believe you are like me. You think that Islam wants to abolish slavery but it doesn't. Your conscience can't accept this barbaric system so you try to comfort yourself with stuff like the process of eliminating slavery was gradual and the likes. Please I don't want to take this further. If you are OK with it that's fine. I am not and that's dandy too .

Peace.

 

[Sabour]

I will do a research on Lincoln and then compare with the articles you have provided. But just because Muslims feel like freeing slaves or your Scriptures recommend it does not mean that God has asked to abolish it. Nowhere the Quran stated to strive to abolish slavery and the hadiths provide examples that back it up. When fundamentalist Muslims kill others you say that it is not Islam. In the same way when you say that Islam wants slavery stopped I say that's not Islam. Sorry to sound rude but Lincoln strove to abolish slavery out of his conscience not because the Bible said. Same way if Muslims today want to abolish slavery it's not because of Islam. Freeing slaves is optional and not mandatory so according to your faith it must exist.

I said you were pro slavery from your previous posts. Even Quatermass noticed it. And as for cherry picking authentic hadith one of your previous posts proved that. I mentioned a sahih hadith in my last post but you couldn't tell me how it was taken out of context by me. Contrary to what you believe you are like me. You think that Islam wants to abolish slavery but it doesn't. Your conscience can't accept this barbaric system so you try to comfort yourself with stuff like the process of eliminating slavery was gradual and the likes. Please I don't want to take this further. If you are OK with it that's fine. I am not and that's dandy too .

Peace.

I didn't notice that you have posted a hadith.

Can you please send me the source so I can look it up in Arabic.


What I already said regarding the subject is that saying that slaves must be freed and it was a way to paradise in doing so is like saying no to slavery.

What I would like you to search in Lincoln case are the results after he succeeded. Compare it to the brotherhood that was established between the slaves and their people in islam.


And I wanted to thank you for the way you replied. I appreciate it

 

[TashaN]

I will do a research on Lincoln and then compare with the articles you have provided. But just because Muslims feel like freeing slaves or your Scriptures recommend it does not mean that God has asked to abolish it. Nowhere the Quran stated to strive to abolish slavery and the hadiths provide examples that back it up. When fundamentalist Muslims kill others you say that it is not Islam. In the same way when you say that Islam wants slavery stopped I say that's not Islam. Sorry to sound rude but Lincoln strove to abolish slavery out of his conscience not because the Bible said. Same way if Muslims today want to abolish slavery it's not because of Islam. Freeing slaves is optional and not mandatory so according to your faith it must exist.

I said you were pro slavery from your previous posts. Even Quatermass noticed it. And as for cherry picking authentic hadith one of your previous posts proved that. I mentioned a sahih hadith in my last post but you couldn't tell me how it was taken out of context by me. Contrary to what you believe you are like me. You think that Islam wants to abolish slavery but it doesn't. Your conscience can't accept this barbaric system so you try to comfort yourself with stuff like the process of eliminating slavery was gradual and the likes. Please I don't want to take this further. If you are OK with it that's fine. I am not and that's dandy too .

Peace.

If you don't mind me asking, do you realize the difference between something which humanity came to know in the 6th century and something which came to be in the 19th century?

Do you see any difference between slavery as a system and racism?

I hope you have the patience to answer me. Thank you.

 

[Draupadi]

Slavery was both a system and racism irrespective of when it started and who started it.

 

[Draupadi]

Here is one for you One-answer-

Hadith (Muslim): Book 008, Number 3371: Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

Source- Search Quran and Hadith

I have read your articles but it still doesn't show how Islam was more successful in abolishing slavery than the Abraham Lincoln? If a bunch of my innocent enemies come to me for help I will help them by keeping them FREE, not by letting them work under me without wages. And it was I in the first place who took their assets as war booty so what else can they do other than beg for help?

 

[Pegg]

Here is one for you One-answer-

Hadith (Muslim): Book 008, Number 3371: Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

Source- Search Quran and Hadith

Does the quran not have adultery laws?

 

[Draupadi]

Adultery with free women is forbidden. But male Muslims can have sex with female slaves without marrying them.

 

[TashaN]

Slavery was both a system and racism irrespective of when it started and who started it.

Prophet Mohamed succeeded in abolishing racism. Laws can prevent people from having slaves, but will not remove racism from their hearts and minds. That's why America after Lincoln remained struggling with racism, and i believe they still suffer from it till today.

For your information, Lincoln was as racist as any white at that period in American history and he believed that slaves should be free for other reasons other than equality of races.

On the expansion of slavery Lincoln said:
There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas ...

On shipping blacks back to Africa Lincoln said:
In the language of Mr. Jefferson, uttered many years ago, "It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation, and deportation, peaceably, and in such slow degrees, as that the evil will wear off insensibly; and in their places be, pari passu [on an equal basis], filled up by free white laborers."

On outlawing slavery in the south (before the rebellion) Lincoln said:
I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

On equality Lincoln said:
I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.

On inter-racial marriage Lincoln said:
Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed ******** may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man.

That's is why African Americans suffered for decades to come after the famous civil war to free the slaves.

Compare that with the last sermon of Prophet Mohamed:

"O people! Indeed, your Lord is one and your father is one. Indeed, there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab, nor of a non-Arab over an Arab, nor of a white over a black, nor a black over a white, except by taqwa..."

 

[TashaN]

Here is one for you One-answer-

Hadith (Muslim): Book 008, Number 3371: Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

Source- Search Quran and Hadith

I have read your articles but it still doesn't show how Islam was more successful in abolishing slavery than the Abraham Lincoln? If a bunch of my innocent enemies come to me for help I will help them by keeping them FREE, not by letting them work under me without wages. And it was I in the first place who took their assets as war booty so what else can they do other than beg for help?

As i said earlier, Islam was very successful in abolishing racism itself, which was way greater in effect than slavery system which was global in that period till the time came where slavery system was abolished all together in the 19th century.

Islam didn't abolish slavery, that's true, because it was political more than religious act. Almost all matters related to politics were up to the people and time was the only factor which was able to correct it, not laws.

 

[Pegg]

Adultery with free women is forbidden. But male Muslims can have sex with female slaves without marrying them.

so adultery is permitted for men in islam as long as the woman is a slave?

Does it occur to anyone that the women captured during war WERE free before they were made into slaves??

If that is the rules in Islam, then it simply paves the way for groups like the Bokoharem to kidnap school girls, proclaim them slaves and then do what they want with them. Does anyone really believe that God, the creator of all people, would allow his own creation to be treated in that way??

I dont think so.