Islam debate

[FearGod]

It looks like magic only to those ignorant of how it happens.

"There are fewer things in heaven and earth than are dreampt of in your theology."
(to mangle poor old Shakespeare)

You didn't get my point.

The creator who made males able to produce sperms which developed to a human being can bring back them to life again.

If we know the secret behind the sperm and as not to see it as an amazing thing then we have to produce a sperm in the lab and to develop it to a human being or to produce a seed and to develop it to a tree.

Knowing how it works doesn't mean knowing how it was produced to do such a work.


The complexity of human body can't be a work of coincidences and chances that developed through billions of years,you can believe it to be accidental but you can never prove it to be so.


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We believe that the human body exhibits evidence of design, not accident. Here is a list of randomly selected facts that scientists have learned about your body which we believe show design. As you examine this list, ask yourself this question: “Can I rationally believe that the incredible complexity of my body is the result of mindless forces, or does it indicate design?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
You possess 3,000,000,000,000 (three trillion) nerve cells all coordinated by the brain.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You have 30,000,000,000 (thirty billion) working sections in your brain.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You have 131,000,000 photoreceptors in your eyes.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You have 24,000 hair-like cells in your inner ear which react to sound and convert it to nerve impulses.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your small intestine has a surface area of 970,000 square feet.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your heart beats 100,000 times and pumps 2,000 gallons of blood every day.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your liver manufactures more than 1,000 different enzymes, each controlling a different chemical reaction.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You have 60,000 miles of blood vessels in your body.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You breathe 438 cubic feet of air each day.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are 35,000,000 gland cells in your stomach to allow it to break down food without digesting itself.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your kidneys have 40 miles of tubing and clean 500 gallons of your blood every day.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Every cell has 1,000,000,000,000 (one million million) bits of data in it. (That is as much information as 10,000 encyclopedia-sized books.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your body has 639 muscles that must work together.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Our joints must move 25,000,000 times in our lifetime without wearing out.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are 30,000,000,000,000 (thirty million million) cells in our body with 10,000 functions.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Obviously these numbers are averages, but they indicate the incredible complexity of our bodies. Do you believe these factors all came together by accident, or is this another Dandy Design?

Reference : Incredible Human Body
[/FONT]

 

[Yuusif12]

Sees: *i dont understand your question

gilligan8914: muslims only accept quran and anything else that was sent by god. Like the bible, before it was changed

It was translated from arabic dont forget.
And allah created you from nothing so he can*bring you back to life again

 

[YmirGF]

The case of prophet Mohammed and Gabriel isn't compulsion but it is a mission that should be fulfilled.

Well, that certainly is a nuanced approach. So, compulsion isn't compulsion. Got it.

Imagine that you hear a real voice talking to you where there is no one around you,then that voice called you by name and asked you to convey the message from the creator of the universe.

One of 2,if you were brave enough then you'll convey the message otherwise you'll visit a Psychiatrist.

If you are delusional enough, you will believe that you are on a divine mission.

Just re-read what you are saying here.

"Imagine that you hear a real voice talking to you where there is no one around you..." This should be a real clue for the budding delusional. You hear voices when no one is physically present.

"then that voice called you by name..." again, this should be a major warning sign that a person is having a delusional episode. Now the voice is singling you out. How would it know your name? Easy. Because it's all inside you head. In theory, even a delusional will know their name... for the most part, at least.

"and asked you to convey the message from the creator of the universe..." Yeah I can see how that makes sense. In my reality, "god" doesn't need middlemen and I wouldn't be particularly impressed by a being wanting me to spread his message to the world. But, that's just me.

Exit Question: Why would an all power, all knowing entity NEED a human animal to take dictation... to spread said entities word. Perhaps said entity isn't so all knowing and all powerful. Just a thought.

As to the rest of your comments, I have no real interest in perusing that line of thought at this time.

 

[FearGod]

Well, that certainly is a nuanced approach. So, compulsion isn't compulsion. Got it.

I don't think that you are willing to understand.

If you are delusional enough, you will believe that you are on a divine mission.

Just re-read what you are saying here.

"Imagine that you hear a real voice talking to you where there is no one around you..." This should be a real clue for the budding delusional. You hear voices when no one is physically present.

"then that voice called you by name..." again, this should be a major warning sign that a person is having a delusional episode. Now the voice is singling you out. How would it know your name? Easy. Because it's all inside you head. In theory, even a delusional will know their name... for the most part, at least.

"and asked you to convey the message from the creator of the universe..." Yeah I can see how that makes sense. In my reality, "god" doesn't need middlemen and I wouldn't be particularly impressed by a being wanting me to spread his message to the world. But, that's just me.

Exit Question: Why would an all power, all knowing entity NEED a human animal to take dictation... to spread said entities word. Perhaps said entity isn't so all knowing and all powerful. Just a thought.

As to the rest of your comments, I have no real interest in perusing that line of thought at this time.

So the ordinary human animal should having a delusional episode to imagine such unreal things and which indicate a serious case of Schizophrenia,i agree with you and i had expected that your reply will match the view of the ignorant pagans of the 7th century.

But as we are in the 21th century,then lets see the real symptoms of Schizophrenia.

1 - Social withdrawal
2- Hostility or suspiciousness
3- Deterioration of personal hygiene
4- Flat, expressionless gaze
5- Inability to cry or express joy
6- Inappropriate laughter or crying
7- Depression
8- Oversleeping or insomnia
9- Odd or irrational statements
10 - Forgetful; unable to concentrate
11- Extreme reaction to criticism
12- Strange use of words or way of speaking

In this early phase, people with schizophrenia often seem eccentric, unmotivated, emotionless, and reclusive. They isolate themselves, start neglecting their appearance, say peculiar things, and show a general indifference to life. They may abandon hobbies and activities, and their performance at work or school deteriorates.

Reference : Schizophrenia: Signs, Symptoms, Types, Causes, and Effects


[youtube]pN-XeR-dTMo[/youtube]
Prophet Muhammad - The Greatest Man - YouTube

[youtube]_baxu3z60PM[/youtube]
Abdur Raheem Green - Life Of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). - YouTube

[youtube]Z_84NHv839s[/youtube]
Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) the best man ever lived on this earth !! 1/2 - YouTube

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You didn't get my point.

The creator who made males able to produce sperms which developed to a human being can bring back them to life again.

If we know the secret behind the sperm and as not to see it as an amazing thing then we have to produce a sperm in the lab and to develop it to a human being or to produce a seed and to develop it to a tree.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

Sperm are not miniature human beings.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

You didn't get my point.

The creator who made males able to produce sperms which developed to a human being can bring back them to life again.

If we know the secret behind the sperm and as not to see it as an amazing thing then we have to produce a sperm in the lab and to develop it to a human being or to produce a seed and to develop it to a tree.

Knowing how it works doesn't mean knowing how it was produced to do such a work.


The complexity of human body can't be a work of coincidences and chances that developed through billions of years,you can believe it to be accidental but you can never prove it to be so.


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We believe that the human body exhibits evidence of design, not accident. Here is a list of randomly selected facts that scientists have learned about your body which we believe show design. As you examine this list, ask yourself this question: “Can I rationally believe that the incredible complexity of my body is the result of mindless forces, or does it indicate design?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
You possess 3,000,000,000,000 (three trillion) nerve cells all coordinated by the brain.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You have 30,000,000,000 (thirty billion) working sections in your brain.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You have 131,000,000 photoreceptors in your eyes.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You have 24,000 hair-like cells in your inner ear which react to sound and convert it to nerve impulses.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your small intestine has a surface area of 970,000 square feet.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your heart beats 100,000 times and pumps 2,000 gallons of blood every day.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your liver manufactures more than 1,000 different enzymes, each controlling a different chemical reaction.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You have 60,000 miles of blood vessels in your body.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You breathe 438 cubic feet of air each day.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are 35,000,000 gland cells in your stomach to allow it to break down food without digesting itself.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your kidneys have 40 miles of tubing and clean 500 gallons of your blood every day.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Every cell has 1,000,000,000,000 (one million million) bits of data in it. (That is as much information as 10,000 encyclopedia-sized books.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your body has 639 muscles that must work together.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Our joints must move 25,000,000 times in our lifetime without wearing out.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are 30,000,000,000,000 (thirty million million) cells in our body with 10,000 functions.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Obviously these numbers are averages, but they indicate the incredible complexity of our bodies. Do you believe these factors all came together by accident, or is this another Dandy Design?

Reference : Incredible Human Body
[/FONT]

Yes. The human body is amazing. As is all of biology. Evolution is an incredible phenomenon that has been through more than a hundred years of rigorous scrutiny and has only come out stronger because of it.

Nothing about the complexity of the human body or the complexity of any other living thing is evidence against evolution or evidence for a designer.

Many religious individuals seem to think that Evolution was hijacked by some evil Atheists who wanted to take over science and run their atheist agenda to ruin the chances of other people getting into heaven. This is not the case even historically if you look at the trails in which evolution has undergone. Even in today's era Atheists are a minority in science. And a hundred years ago there were even less atheists in science than there are today. But they are scientist and a true scientist yields to the evidence.

The evidence is clear. Brutally so.

 

[FearGod]

Sperm are not miniature human beings.

Who said they are ?

 

[Yuusif12]

Allah doesnt 'NEED a human animal'
And nothing prevented men from believing when the guidance came to them, except that they said: "Has Allah sent a man as (His) Messenger?" Say: "If there were on the earth, angels walking about in peace and security, We should certainly have sent down for them from the heaven an angel as a Messenger." S. 17:94-95


We sent down Iron with its great inherent strength and its many benefits for humankind [57:25]

We made every living thing from water? Will they not believe? [21:30]

We made the sky a protective ceiling. And yet they are turning away from Our signs! [21:32]

We shall send those who reject Our revelations to the (Hell) Fire. When their skins have been burned away, We shall replace them with new ones so that they may continue to feel the pain: God is Almighty, All-Wise. [4:56] people thought it was the brain that felt pain

If the quran wasnt sent by god then how did the prophet muhammad know these things 1400 years ago

 

[FearGod]

Yes. The human body is amazing. As is all of biology. Evolution is an incredible phenomenon that has been through more than a hundred years of rigorous scrutiny and has only come out stronger because of it.

Nothing about the complexity of the human body or the complexity of any other living thing is evidence against evolution or evidence for a designer.

Many religious individuals seem to think that Evolution was hijacked by some evil Atheists who wanted to take over science and run their atheist agenda to ruin the chances of other people getting into heaven. This is not the case even historically if you look at the trails in which evolution has undergone. Even in today's era Atheists are a minority in science. And a hundred years ago there were even less atheists in science than there are today. But they are scientist and a true scientist yields to the evidence.

The evidence is clear. Brutally so.

Our bodies is made in a scientific way and not just an arbitrary steps of unconscious processes of random mutations and chances.

Our bodies is an evidence by itself that we were made in a scientific way.

The unconscious nature can't manage to produce an intelligent human being that can see,speek,listen & think, the natural selection doesn't explain how such an amazing body came to existence but just being selected in natural way because of fitness and the ability to survive.

Do you think that inventions can be achieved without a good plan.

Can we assemble a TV set without a proper plan and a good design,selection can be done after the good work had already done.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Our bodies is made in a scientific way and not just an arbitrary steps of unconscious processes of random mutations and chances.

What is your reasoning for this? Are you invoking the irreducible complexity argument? Because its been blown out of the water by science several times now. There are no examples of irreducible complexity.

Our bodies is an evidence by itself that we were made in a scientific way.

There is no "scientific" way to make something or create something. The scientific way is simply understanding the universe around us. And the evidence points to us being the result of a complicated process over billions of years.

The unconscious nature can't manage to produce an intelligent human being that can see,speek,listen & think, the natural selection doesn't explain how such an amazing body came to existence but just being selected in natural way because of fitness and the ability to survive.

Actually it can. We have evidence it can. Do you have evidence it can't? I'd like to see it if you do. Please no arguments from ignorance or appeal fallacies either.

Do you think that inventions can be achieved without a good plan.

Ironically most scientific achievements happen by accident. But yes I do think that we are the result of a natural process rather than a divine creator.

Can we assemble a TV set without a proper plan and a good design,selection can be done after the good work had already done.

This is an argument from ignorance and false equivalence. In nature we see examples of complex things all the time. However this does not mean it had to have a creator.

Though I challenge you to present evidence that it "had" to have a creator or designer.

 

[FearGod]

What is your reasoning for this? Are you invoking the irreducible complexity argument? Because its been blown out of the water by science several times now. There are no examples of irreducible complexity.

When talking about science then we are talking about reality,things that we can observe,test and measure in other words about facts.

So saying that evolutionists had blown out of the water by science the creationists is really funny and is ultimate ignorance.

There is no "scientific" way to make something or create something. The scientific way is simply understanding the universe around us. And the evidence points to us being the result of a complicated process over billions of years.

No scientific way in our body systems, are you kidding or just an ultimate ignorance !

Now the way your eyes work by receiving the picture which converted to an electrical signal isn't science to you but is arbitrary happening due to random mutations over billions of years.

Actually it can. We have evidence it can. Do you have evidence it can't? I'd like to see it if you do. Please no arguments from ignorance or appeal fallacies either.

What is your evidence that nature can produce a human being without the need for a prior plan.

To have a human being,a man should exist and should be in an adult age to produce sperms and a woman is needed that should also be in an adult age,both should have sexual relationship which isn't planned by the unconscious nature and nor by the human being.

Could you explain how the male is affected by the scene of a woman,in other words why the electric signal of a pretty sexy woman have to attract the male and then have an erection to be ready for the intercourse,was that due to random mutations.

Ironically most scientific achievements happen by accident. But yes I do think that we are the result of a natural process rather than a divine creator.

Scientific achievements by accident and not by observation,knowledge and thinking.
Who knows,maybe one day we can see monkeys going to schools.

This is an argument from ignorance and false equivalence. In nature we see examples of complex things all the time. However this does not mean it had to have a creator.

So if the universe has no creator,then how the universe came to existence from nothingness at first place.

Though I challenge you to present evidence that it "had" to have a creator or designer.

You and me,for the smarts only to understand.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't think that you are willing to understand.



So the ordinary human animal should having a delusional episode to imagine such unreal things and which indicate a serious case of Schizophrenia,i agree with you and i had expected that your reply will match the view of the ignorant pagans of the 7th century.

But as we are in the 21th century,then lets see the real symptoms of Schizophrenia.

1 - Social withdrawal
2- Hostility or suspiciousness
3- Deterioration of personal hygiene
4- Flat, expressionless gaze
5- Inability to cry or express joy
6- Inappropriate laughter or crying
7- Depression
8- Oversleeping or insomnia
9- Odd or irrational statements
10 - Forgetful; unable to concentrate
11- Extreme reaction to criticism
12- Strange use of words or way of speaking

In this early phase, people with schizophrenia often seem eccentric, unmotivated, emotionless, and reclusive. They isolate themselves, start neglecting their appearance, say peculiar things, and show a general indifference to life. They may abandon hobbies and activities, and their performance at work or school deteriorates.

Reference : Schizophrenia: Signs, Symptoms, Types, Causes, and Effects

How fascinating. I don't recall mentioning Schizophrenia. How clever of you to debunk your own strawman. Well done. :clap

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

What is your evidence that nature can produce a human being without the need for a prior plan.

You might want to do some reading in evolutionary science. Try some books by Stephen J. Gould, who wrote for the non-technical reader.

Nature needs no plan. It just favors whatever works. If hands work better than hooves, it lets the hands survive. If upright walking works better than four-legged walking, then the upright walkers tend to survive. If big brains work better....

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Too often we neglect to mention the creatures own participation in it's survival when we speak of natural selection.

 

[FearGod]

How fascinating. I don't recall mentioning Schizophrenia. How clever of you to debunk your own strawman. Well done. :clap

That what you said if you have a weak memory,then here is what you said

" again, this should be a major warning sign that a person is having a delusional episode. Now the voice is singling you out. How would it know your name? Easy. Because it's all inside you head. In theory, even a delusional will know their name... for the most part, at least.

You said hearing things which isn't from reality is delusional episodes.

During an episode of schizophrenia, a person may lose touch with reality, see or hear things that are not there, hold irrational or unfounded beliefs, and appear to act strangely because they are responding to these delusions and hallucinations. An episode of schizophrenia can last for several weeks and can be very frightening.
Reference : Schizophrenia

 

[FearGod]

You might want to do some reading in evolutionary science. Try some books by Stephen J. Gould, who wrote for the non-technical reader.

Nature needs no plan. It just favors whatever works. If hands work better than hooves, it lets the hands survive. If upright walking works better than four-legged walking, then the upright walkers tend to survive. If big brains work better....

What a great point of nonsense.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

What a great point of nonsense.

If you think it's nonsense, you apparently don't know anything at all about evolutionary science.

Stephen J. Gould. Really. Grab one of his books.

 

[suzy smith]

Islam is the religion sent down to us from god onto our messenger Muhammad. It brought light to the people who were living in darkness.
Islam isn't about scuicide bombings and other stuff which you hear in the news.
Anything that is in the Quran then we do it and anything else then it is not from our religion

Please ask any questions you want about islam and I will try to answer them in Shaa' Allah

To say ‘Islam is sent down from God’ is no better than saying the tooth fairy is sent down from god, or the great spaghetti monster, or father Christmas and so on.
So you need to be more convincing Yuusif.
Now if you say its true because it says so in the Quran well I have my copy here in front of me. I also have several interpretations of the Bible in front of me and other religious books. And I can find nothing in any of them other than the kind of writings one would expect from old religious books written by men a long time ago in the so called ‘dark ages’
So to get me to take you seriously you need to take your argument just one step further. Give me proof that your religion is the right one without just quoting scriptures. Don’t just say I am right because it says so here and quote scripture to me. Prove to me that your holy book is right then I will listen to you.
Otherwise your statement ‘Islam is the religion sent down to us from god’ is just a statement, no more.

 

[FearGod]

If you think it's nonsense, you apparently don't know anything at all about evolutionary science.

Stephen J. Gould. Really. Grab one of his books.

No i don't say evolution is nonsense but what i did say is that what you said is a good point of nonsense.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

No i don't say evolution is nonsense but what i did say is that what you said is a good point of nonsense.

I don't even know what a 'good point of nonsense' might be.

If you think something I said was nonsense, can you say which part? And why?