Islam fights free speech

[Rival]

It isn't only Islam this person posting is a bigot. Wouldn't a Cristian be offended by a cartoon making crucification jokes, don't Christians blow things up and shoot people who support lgbt or non segregation or whatever a Christian extremist thinks is offensive? Look at the Jews, obliterating Palestine, and in the middle of the Syrian civil war, extremely quietly stealing land on the wrong side of the sea of Galilee

Seriously? How many people were murdered over the p*ss Christ? How many Christians are bombing each other and forming terrorist groups?

The difference between the two is that Islam is inherently violent, Christianity is not. Muhammad was a warlord; Christ rebuked Peter for using his sword and healed the man wounded.

 

[Rival]

You seem to be implying that somewhere, there is "true Islam". Can you point us to the definition of true Islam? Can you point us to an example - in the real world - of a country that's demonstrating "true Islam" in practice?

Following the Qur'an and Sunnah. Simple.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I thought that Muhammad is supposed to be the model of a perfect person, correct? Well he started many battles, more than 60? Islam is about power.

Nonsense .. accusation only. Islam only allows bloodshed in defence.

Muslims on the other hand never seem to want to be honest about Islam's problems.

I've corrected you before, and I'll do so again. Islam doesn't have any problems .. Muslims do , however.

 

[happyo]

Seriously? How many people were murdered over the p*ss Christ? How many Christians are bombing each other and forming terrorist groups?

The difference between the two is that Islam is inherently violent, Christianity is not. Muhammad was a warlord; Christ rebuked Peter for using his sword and healed the man wounded.

Islam is called the religion of peace for a reason. It is extremists who have splintered off and became jihadists because of governmental conspiracies. There are Christian extremists, it just doesn't receive the same publicity. When Salahadin took Jerusalem way back in the day, he didn't slaughter the Jews and Christians who all wanted to be there also. Do you remember the Crusades? Do you know exactly what Israel is doing in the name of Judaism?

 

[Rival]

Islam is called the religion of peace for a reason. It is extremists who have splintered off and became jihadists because of governmental conspiracies. There are Christian extremists, it just doesn't receive the same publicity. When Salahadin took Jerusalem way back in the day, he didn't slaughter the Jews and Christians who all wanted to be there also. Do you remember the Crusades? Do you know exactly what Israel is doing in the name of Judaism?

You do know the crusades were a RESPONSE to centuries of Islamic violence, right? And no, Islam is not peaceful. It is very violent; all you need do is study its scriptures.

 

[happyo]

You seem to be implying that somewhere, there is "true Islam". Can you point us to the definition of true Islam? Can you point us to an example - in the real world - of a country that's demonstrating "true Islam" in practice?

I looked and didn't find it, which may be the point it has been corrupted. Christianity also, both by seekers of power. There are so many splinters and sects, everyone fighting over whose right and who's going to Hell. How to dress, etc, religion and faith is in your heart, and how you live your life. How can we perfectly follow a perfect religion if we are all imperfect sinners?

 

[Notanumber]

If Islamists did a little bit of research into their religion instead of blindly following what their Imams tell them, it would make a world of difference.

Unfortunately, this will not happen because Islam forbids it!

 

[muhammad_isa]

Unfortunately, this will not happen because Islam forbids it!

How can Islam "forbid" anything? Do you mean that Almighty God says that we should not use our intelligence?
Quite the opposite, I can assure you

 

[icehorse]

How can Islam "forbid" anything? Do you mean that Almighty God says that we should not use our intelligence?
Quite the opposite, I can assure you

It would be great if the apologists here would stop with the word games. You're not convincing anyone of your position when you do this, you just look like you're trying to avoid discussing the actual points.

So in standard language: Islam CAN promote certain idea and forbid others. Christianity CAN do the same. Science CAN promote logic and evidence. Theocracies CAN curtail human rights. Democracy CAN be susceptible to corruption, and so on.

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
So in standard language: Islam CAN promote certain idea and forbid others...

My point is how?
I'm in fact questioning that 'Islam forbids' studying Quran and hadith, for example .. makes no sense to me

 

[Notanumber]

Islam only allows bloodshed in defence.

Are you saying that it is okay to fight the unbelievers who offer resistance to Islamic rule?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Are you saying that it is okay to fight the unbelievers who offer resistance to Islamic rule?

You are asking me if it's ok?
..depends on what you mean .. If an established Islamic nation was attacked by a disbelieving nation, then yes

 

[Notanumber]

You are asking me if it's ok?
..depends on what you mean .. If an established Islamic nation was attacked by a disbelieving nation, then yes

You could answer yes to that, if an established Islamic nation was attacked by another nation with the same Islamic beliefs, couldn’t you?

Would it be okay for a believing nation to attack an unbelieving nation with the intention of imposing Islamic rule?

 

[Notanumber]

Is one god better than another is?

As he says, “Fundamentalism is not a problem if the fundaments of your religion are benign”

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
Would it be okay for a believing nation to attack an unbelieving nation with the intention of imposing Islamic rule?

That would depend .. if the 'unbelieving nation' was not oppressing them, then, no

 

[Notanumber]

This is what the Quran states.

9. Sura At-Taubah (The Repentance)

29. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Same old story..
By quoting a verse, taking it out of its context, we can "prove" whatever we wish to prove.

If you are suggesting that "true Muslims" should kill anybody who doesn't believe,
then most of us are imposters

 

[Notanumber]

Instead of taking it out of context, it should be taken out of the Quran.

Then the fundamentalists would have one less dangerous fundamental to follow.

It is time for a fundamental review of this malevolent document.

 

[psychoslice]

Instead of taking it out of context, it should be taken out of the Quran.

Then the fundamentalists would have one less dangerous fundamental to follow.

It is time for a fundamental review of this malevolent document.

This is true, and should also apply to much of the bible.

 

[muhammad_isa]

...

It is time for a fundamental review of this (censored) document.

A pointless statement .. you know that's impossible! Just because you dislike it, so what?

People will come up with excuses for their behaviour, whatever they believe..
When people are oppressed, you will find that they become unpredictable .. not particularly surprising to me