Islam, how many more will suffer????

[chookyman]

Being a muslim once and realising the true roots of Islam, and seeing the push of Islam onto this world, I feared for the wellbeing of all others who are not Muslim. Islam is a religion of suppression of the human will, Muslims even put god before the love & wellbeing of those close you.

What most people do not realise, is the rebirth of the push to turn this entire world & every civilisation into one big Islamic paradox one way or another. If they cannot kill, they will bread us out through multiple marriages and child births (big muslim families) from those marriages or big famillies, or through marrying non-muslims who have to convert to islam (regardles of the sex). Look at Europe now.

So as you will read from this article (below), you will see why there is an influx in Islamic fundimentlist in the world and why we must wake up now and stop ***** footing around. Islam and Muslims always come to us, with nice intentions, goodwill, etc. But behind those faces is nothing but utter evil and deception, waiting for the right time to move (most times they come on you in such away over time you do not realise it until you up to your neck in it.

If we do not fight back and destroy all that is Islam, in the future that is all there will be, and many peoples lives will suffer. It always amazed me that every one loves muslims and Islam, until something bad happens to them before they wake up, by then it is too late (Bali, Sept 11 for example).

There is little good in Islam for this world, and Islam proves to be the biggest shackels of mankind pulling us back of becoming what we can be. All our policies of human rights, democracy, etc is bull**** to a muslim (see it in Iraq, the religion always comes first and does not fit into the thinking of Islam), means nothing, but does not stop them as using them as tools to convert or destroy us (one way or another).

After you finish reading this article, you will see the true agenda of Islam and of most muslims who fight for it. Yes there are some good muslims who do not care for this, that can read behind the lines, but one must remember a muslim is brainwashed the religion from such a young age, it becaomes them and it is hard to see past it. It is a constant mind fight inside the brain of a muslim. It is a cognitive conditioning. Even our laws mean nothing to a muslim (see Indonesia) Islam rules over the countries own laws when it comes to Muslims. One can not afford to separate on Muslim from another. If they are Muslim, they are Muslim. Muslims are brothers and like family they are blood and are demanded to protect the interest of another (thats why the Turks did not lose their heads in Iraq when captured, but most other non-muslims did).

This is why I am no longer a muslim, I denounce the religion as a religion of evil then of goodness, compassion for humanity, and heart. There is no such thing as peace in Islam until the whole world is Islam and everyone left is a muslim one way or another. Look at most countries which are Islamic? Look around you and wake up before your next, and you country. Fight back on Islam, before you, your family, your country is next and it is too late to be what mankind could have been.

http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=2714&TagID=2

 

[_salam_]

If you are a former Muslim as you say you are I am sorry that who ever taught you about Islam imprinted upon you such lies. However I really wish you could stop posting your lies and extremely biased and missinforming remarks towards Islam.

Now resoponeding to your comments above. I will agree that Islam wishes to set up an Islamic state, however there is nothing in Islam or the article which you posted (which I'm assuming is what you based your comments on) that says that this ideal Islamic state has to completely, ruthlessly, or mercifullessly take over and control the world. There is nothing in Islam that says that this Islamic state can't coincide with the rest of the world and its other countries. I'm sure there are some of these fundalmentalist out there that would like to have Islam rule over the world, but I'm going to go so far as to say that their view of how Islam should be makes them a non-muslim. These people have strayed from the basic teachings of Islam and let personal and political agendas take over they're view of what Islam is. The only other thing I can think of that would make you think that this ideal Islamic state has to rule the world is that, in some of the prophecies about the "end of times" it talks about how there will not be a person on this earth who hasn't heard of Islam. This concept is often misunderstud to mean that every person will be a Muslim, but this is not what it is talking about, and can't be the case because in the prophecies it also tells of the presence of Christians and Jews, and tells that when the earth is distroyed the disbelievers (in God) will be killed in the distruction where as the believers (in God) will have there souls taken away peacefully. If we look at the world today however, in the light of lots of recent events, I would say that just about everybody has heard of Islam. Proving that this prophecy has or is coming true. Again Islam would ideally like to have an Islamic state, but this doesn't mean that this state has to rule over the world.

 

[OfPeace]

I completely agree with you chookyman. The objective of Islam is Arab Earth. It is forbidden for a Muslim to tolerate non-Muslims. If that's the case, then since the Islamic beliefs transcend to the rule of law (to Islam,) Islam's goal is to be the religion of the Earth. The Islamic movement is much like Hitler's movement, but more cunning. It uses religion as a viel to infiltrate free societies. Muslims are basically taught to be criminals of a free society.

Muslims should realize that religion is a choice. You can choose Islam, and live in hate, in paranoia, and for fleshy desires. Or you can be a Christian, and live by one commandment: love your neighbour as you love yourself; and by one saviour: Jesus Christ. Or you can be any other peaceful, less tormenting religion that was produced by more credible sources than Islam.

If you are a Muslim, living in a free society in the West, and want to persist it, then convert to another religion. Otherwise, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Iran, and another Muslim country can accommodate you.

 

[Mister Emu]

Please stop this hate.

The objective of Islam is Arab Earth.

The objective of Christianity is a Christian Earth, and that makes us no more evil, and no less, there are violent fundalmentalists of every religion.

If you are a Muslim, living in a free society in the West, and want to persist it, then convert to another religion. Otherwise, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Iran, and another Muslim country can accommodate you

Good Lord, are you truly a christian, or are you posing as one to try to lower our reputation?

 

[_salam_]

To OfPeace,

Judging by your response I'm going to assume you didn't read my post or the actual article that Chookyman based his post on. Either that or you just weren't able to grasp what was posted. Any how since you seem to be having a little trouble understanding Islam I will try and help you out a little bit.
All of the quotes that I post from here on out are from "The Complete Idiots Guide To Understanding Islam" written by Yahiya Emerick, unless I specify otherwise.

Now to address your first statement. In my response to Chookyman I already explained that Islam has no such plan at world domination, so this is false. Based on what you have stated in this thread and others about Islam, you seem to have this preconcieved notion that Muslims are of Arab decent. You stated "Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Iran, and another Muslim country can accommodate you." However these nor any country on Earth at this time is an Islamic state, if you had read the article that Chookyman had posted you would know that. Yes Muslims do live in these Arab countries but that doesn't mean that all, or even the majority, of Muslims are of Arab decent. Infact the majority of the worldwide Muslim population lives in Indonesia, and only around 18% of the Muslim population is of Arab decent. So making the assumption that all Muslims are Arab is false, I myself am not Arab.

Your statement that "It is forbidden for a Muslim to tolerate non-Muslims." is rediculous. I will now quote some sections from the aforementioned book.
"Islam is a faith whose legitimacy lies in the idea that all true religion is part of a historical cycle. Islam asserts that it is nothing less than a continuation of the message given to previous prophets. All Prophets taught the same core beliefs, declares the Qur'an, and thus the followers of previously revealed religions must be respected on a certain level."
"Given that islam teaches that every nation received a prophet from God, a complimentary component of this ideology is that all people are equal, regardless of race color, and are endowed with a standard foundation of human rights that must be respected."
"The Qur'an is very enthusiastic about interfaith dialogue. Muhammad himseelf often engaged in this practice with Jews, Christians, and idolaters. The Qur'an even encourages Muslims to invite people to such meetings by saying, "Come! Let us gather together our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: then let us earnestly pray and invoke the displeasure of God on those who are deceitful!" (Qur'an 3:61)"
"Muslim civilization from its earliest years has always encouraged the equal participation of non-Muslims in religious debate and inquiry and has never attempted to suppress the religious rights of others. Although one can always find aberrations, Muslims have respected freedom of conscience in others. Succeeding Islamic Empires have even paid for the construction and upkeep of churches and synagogues, considering the maintenance of religion for all citizens in an Islamic state to be a duty of the government!"
"With this diversity of religion in the classical Muslim world, one finds that a great amount of dialoguing went on. Upon closer scrutiny we find that the great Muslim caliph, Harun ar Rashid, for example, who ruled in Baghdad in the late eighth century, kept a staff of scholars representing Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, and Buddhists who routinely held regular debate sessions on each other's religions."
"An Islamic government is charged with supporting all religions equally. It is a twist on the American ideal of separation of church and state, which forbids government from having any role in religion. In contrast, Islam says the state must support all religions! The Islamic government is forbidden to seize the churches, synagogues, or temples of any group, nor can the government meddle in the appointment of religious leaders by each group. The treaty Muhammad made with a local Christian community is very clear: No bishop can be removed from his office and no church can be confiscated."
"From the time of Muhammad through to the last Muslim Empire of the Ottomans, Muslim rulers have been particulary concerned with the welfare of their non-Muslim subjects and their religious needs."
"Many Americans in particular would be surprised to find out that a large portion of the current American constitution is compatible with the Islamic political vision. Concepts such as elected officials, congress, a judiciary, civil and criminal laws, equal political rights for women, and the rights and duties of citizens find their echoes in real-life applications in the history of Muslim civilization. Has Muslim history had its share of despots and kings? Sure it has, but so has the Christian world. What is to be judged are the principles and not how faithfully they are applied."

You also stated that "Muslims should realize that religion is a choice." As Muslims we do realize that religion is a choice, again I will quote from the same book.
"The Qur'an forbids forcing someone to convert to the faith. Despite popular stereotypes of fanatic Muslims with the Qur'an in one hand and a sword in the other, Islam does not teach this type of conversion method; and modern Western writers, who have taken a fresh look at history, now almost unanimously declare that forced conversion was not a method used during the rapid Muslim expansion."
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things. (Qur'an 2:256)

You said "Or you can be any other peaceful, less tormenting religion that was produced by more credible sources than Islam." One of the fundamental beliefs in Islam is the belief in all of God's holy books, these being the Torah, the New Testament, and the Qur'an. So saying that Islam isn't based off of credible sources would be discrediting your own religious text, since we both base our beliefs off of the basic teachings of the Bible.

I hope that this has helped you to get a better more accurate understanding about Islam.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

While these people are spending their time Muslim bashing they forget the bloody history of Christianity. Crusades,conversion by the sword, the Inquisition, innocent people tortured and burnt at the stake...isn't there something in the Bible about the sinless being allowed to throw the first rock? Funny how no-one was in a position to actually start throwing them.
There are more than enough Christian fundamentalists out there whose thinking is skewed in a similar fashion to the Muslim fundies...neither of these groups do their respective religion any justice, nor in reality show any real understanding of the teachings on which they are based.
Fanaticism of any sort is hardly rational behaviour...involving a religious belief doesn't change that.
And Chookyman, surely what you're advocating with your push to 'destroy all that is Islam' is nothing more than your own version of Jihad. You're becoming what you profess to fear and despise.

 

[OfPeace]

The Crusades was wrong, but relative to what Muslims are doing now, and especially, what they did in the past, the Crusades speck of a dust in a ton. I justify what I say by self-defence.

I have read the article choonyman referenced, and quite frankly, it was worrisome. It proves my point that Muslims are infiltrators when they live in non-Muslim countries. Middle Eastern countries and the surrounding countries may not be defined as Islamic states by your standards, but most are governed according to Islam. Okay, the majority of Muslims don't reside in the Middle East, but they do reside in the surrounding regions: North Africa, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, etc. All not so pleasant countries to live in.

You claim that the majority of Muslims where not converted to Islam by force. I disclaim that claim by pointing to the fact of the non-Muslims in Muslim countries were made to pay extra taxes to retain their religion, their children were abducted (Turkey), their churches must rote to the ground because they must receive permission to fix or build new ones from the government (permission rarely given), they display or practice their religion outside their home, they cannot gather, they cannot convert others to their religion, and other nasty oppressions. The hostility that is created by Muslims, based on Islamic beliefs, to me is "force." That is the reason that once a Christian dominated region (the Middle East) now contains very little Christians. "...previously revealed religions must be respected on a certain level." Also, Muslims only treat their male counterparts equally, as it is their requirement. There is no such requirement in Christianity. To claim that Muslim governments must treat all religions equally is misleading and a lie; it proves the underhanded approach Islam guides Muslims to take to make converters.


Muslims seem to have this misconception that the whole world wants (or needs) to live by their rules (protected by Islam.) I have no desire to live under Muslim rule or protection; under followers who believe in a god that I don't believe in. Our views here in the free society is let religion for our moral guidance, and let the rule of law be based on a common, non-biassed platform.

And your last claim that Muslims must accord by the New Testament and the Tora is also misleading. Islam's New Testament and Tora are very different than Christians'. In addition, they practically don't exist since it is purported they have been lost.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

"The Crusades was wrong, but relative to what Muslims are doing now, and especially, what they did in the past, the Crusades speck of a dust in a ton. I justify what I say by self-defence. "


are you kidding me? how close minded can that possibly get? self defence? no. it was corrupt popes manipulated people to go after a whole people by the basis of a few idiots who did killed a few christians in the holy land. thats not jesus, thats stupidity.

you cannot call yourself christian and practice this hate. Jesus forbade you from doing so. hate leads to nowhere but suffering.

muslims are peaceful people. i have no idea where you are getting this idea. are you aware that there billions of muslims in the world who are not terrorists?

sigh. some people will never understand the truth.

 

[painted wolf]

you know... I just have to say that christians who bash Muslims over the crusades need to step back and look at christian actions over the past 400 years.
They purpetrated the bigest attempts at genoside both with Jews and with Native Americans... My people offered the Eurpoean explorers help and frendship and in return we were slaughtered to near extinction. Thankfully Creator was with us and kept us from such a fate.
Now do I blame Christianity for this...NO
I blame stupid, arrogant, bigoted people for this, I do not condem an entire Religion or Race or Nationality for the actions of a few. To do so would be stupid and equilly wrong.
I feel the same way about al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. They are not the entirety of their respective races or religions... (and here I have to say that I agree that they are simply using religion as a smoke screen and tool and are not true believers in Islam)

*sigh* we same to make the same mistakes over and over with no regard to the truth of their painful history.

wa:do

 

[OfPeace]

You misunderstood me. I meant that my views are based on self-defence.

Most of you are ignorant about the extent of the atrocities committed by Muslims. If there were mass murderous Christians back then, nine out of ten the source of their motives would be Islam. The barbarity of Islam, and its inhumane ways caused alarm and drove people into action, however devious those action may be. I urge you to look into the history of Christians in countries in, or near, the Middle East.

You'll understand that we, equalitarians, face a significant threat from Islam. The sinister entity, Islam, is one of the biggest challenges facing the free world today. If you ever watched movies in which robots take over the world, and felt terrified at such prospects, let me tell you that the threat is real and exists today with the name of Islam. There is no freewill in Islam.

In addition, some of you should be careful about what you say, because you are contradicting yourselves. You speak of peace and forgiveness, while at the same defending people whose countries are torture prisons for those who are different from them. It's not right to justify Islam's cruelty, and I assume that you wouldn't want it to come to your home.

 

[OfPeace]

I’ll come back to discuss this further next week.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Ahhhhh, isn't it nice how the muslims quoran allows them to pick and choose which verses they want to follow?

Interesting, as that could be said for more religions than some might care to mention.

Islam is a bloody, evil brainwashing perversion of a religion in which its followers are asked to commit murderous atrocities in the name of their god.

Please don't generalize. Again, the same could be said of almost any horrific event, with the same 'insert religion here' bias.

 

[_salam_]

To OfPeace,

You stated "Middle Eastern countries and the surrounding countries may not be defined as Islamic states by your standards, but most are governed according to Islam." Wrong, most are governed by a small group of corrupt individuals or by dictators, all of whom twist religious laws for their own personal gain. These governments are only interested in themselves and have little if any regard for the people of their country muslims and non-muslims. Also keep in mind that a lot of their laws are based off of cultural and social customs that have been around before Islam and these customs and laws are offten confused with religious laws. None of these countries or any country is governed by Islam, not since the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

You said "Okay, the majority of Muslims don't reside in the Middle East, but they do reside in the surrounding regions: North Africa, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, etc. All not so pleasant countries to live in." Yeah Muslims do live in the surrounding areas as well as almost every other country on the planet. This includes some good and not so good countries. Muslims don't have anything to do with how pleasant the country is.

You also stated that "non-Muslims in Muslim countries were made to pay extra taxes to retain their religion". Your right in an Islamic state non-Muslims do have to pay taxes, but so do the Muslim citizens. In Islam Muslims have to pay a religious tax called zakat, since the non-Muslim citizens don't have the requirement of zakat the government charges them a tax. This tax goes into the national treasury and is then used to keep up churches and other places of worship as well as build new churches. This tax also pays for their protection because if an Islamic state goes to war only the Muslim citizens are required to fight, none of the non-Muslims have to fight if they don't want to.
As for the other horrible acts that you mentioned, none of these happened under an Islamic state but rather under these corrupt governments that I mentioned before. None of these acts are based on Islamic belief, but rather by bad people who just happen to be Muslim. Christianity never dominated the middle east, there have been times where Christianity and Islam have coexisted in that area. Also to claim that there are not very many Christians in that area is rediculous, Lebanon has a huge Christian population.

You stated that "Muslims only treat their male counterparts equally". This is a false statement yet again. I will quote from the same book that I quoted from in my previous post.
"Islam does not teach that women are inferior to men, nor does it call upon its followers to suppress them. What is the evidence to support this counterclaim? The Holy Qur'an lays out the case for women's equality in several ways:
"O people! Revereence your Lord Who created you from a single soul and created of like nature its mate and from those two He scattered countles men and women. Reverence Allah through Whom you demand your mutual [rights] and [reverence] the wombs [of mothers that bore you] for Allah ever watches over you" (Qur'an 4:1)
For centuries, European Christians debated whether or not women had souls or even if they went to heaven. Islam never engaged in such nonsense. The Qur'an, quite contrary to pre-Islamic Arab beliefs, called women the equals of men in all aspects of religion:
"For believing men and women, for devout men and women, for truthful men and women, for patient men and women, for humble men and women, for charitable men and women... for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and a great reward." (Qur'an 33:35)
Muhammad himself established the equal suffrage rights of women by including them in the oath-taking practice, which was the equivalent of voting in Arab society. Islam has never taught that women should be denied a political voice, and in those Muslim countries that are not ruled by kings (which is forbidden in the Qur'an, by the way) one finds that women vote freely. Iran, which is often held up as the epitome of chauvinism, actually has more elected women in government than the United States!"
"Islam does not teach that women are inferior in religion or in political rights. The only caveat, is that men are called upon to be the protectors and primary providers of the family. This doesn't mean that women are weak or incapable of defending themselves, for Islamic history is full of strong and martial women. Rather, it elevates women by freeing them from a lot of drudgery that God has said men are primarily responsible for. According to Islam, women are not even obligated to do the housework! (Any work they do is considered a charity on their part.) The Prophet Muhammad worked around the house as much as any other member of his family. Men are the undeclared servants of women, in an ideal Islamic sense."
"Islam does not encourage the oppresion of women. In fact, the teachings of Muhammad call upon men to respect the rights of women. Islamic Law contains hundreds of laws for the protection of women's rights. Among these are the following:
A woman's property cannot be seized by her husband.
Women cannot be denied the right to an education.
Ruining a woman's reputation is a criminal act.
Forced marriage is prohibited.
Women can file legal suits in court and provide sole testimony.
Women can initiate divorce.
Women get automatic custody of young children after divorce.
Alimony and palimony are mandatory.
Women can enter into contracts without interference.
Spousal abuse is a punishable offense.
Women receive equal pay for equal work.
Women can vote and stand for office.
The list goes on further and covers so many areas that it rivals current Western laws regarding women's status and rights."

As for your response about Muslims following the Bible, you misunderstood what I meant. Your right that Muslims don't beleive the Bible to be in the origanal form, but from the way I understand it neither do Christians and Jews. What I said was that in Islam we believe in the basic teaching of the Bible and we believe it is from or inspired by God. For example we believe in the Ten Commandments just as you do.

 

[_salam_]

Just a little food for thought for all of you out there trying to read this with an open mind. I have provided actual evidence for true Muslim beliefs, whereas others on here would like have you think I'm missleading you. These other people however have provided no actual evidence for Muslim beleifs other than their own oppinion. They like to take a select group of bad people, who happen to be Muslim, and portray them as the whole of Islam. Who is being missleading now?

And to Lady Marva,
Even though your post has been removed, you said "Ahhhhh, isn't it nice how the muslims quoran allows them to pick and choose which verses they want to follow?" I would like to know where I have picked and choosed verses through out the Qur'an. I challenge you to bring forth any verse from the Qur'an, any verse that you want, and I will address that verse for you, because in Islam unlike other religions we are not alloud to pick and choose between verses of our Holy text

 

[Ardhanariswar]

ooo. looks like someone got a beat down with well organized rebuttles. way to go salem.

 

[_salam_]

ooo. looks like someone got a beat down with well organized rebuttles. way to go salem.

I do what I can to battle ignorance.

 

[YawgmothsAvatar]

Interesting, as that could be said for more religions than some might care to mention.

Ba-zing!

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

You misunderstood me. I meant that my views are based on self-defence.

Most of you are ignorant about the extent of the atrocities committed by Muslims. If there were mass murderous Christians back then, nine out of ten the source of their motives would be Islam. The barbarity of Islam, and its inhumane ways caused alarm and drove people into action, however devious those action may be.

Well, by all means, lets just justify our position by saying,'they bought it on themselves.' I'm pretty sure that was the rationale Hitler was using to justify the extermination of the Jew, the Gypsies,people with Downs Syndrome, etc. It's very easy to blame someone elses actions for the wrong you do them when you need a justification.

In addition, some of you should be careful about what you say, because you are contradicting yourselves. You speak of peace and forgiveness, while at the same defending people whose countries are torture prisons for those who are different from them. It's not right to justify Islam's cruelty, and I assume that you wouldn't want it to come to your home.

There's a saying...'the squeeky wheel gets the oil.'

People focus on the wrongs done by people professing to follow the teachings of Islam because it's on the front page, and most of them don't know enough-or care enough to find out-what is fact and what is a bastardisation of Islam, perpetrated by fanatics with their own agendas.
I also think you'll find that there are plenty of 'Christian' people out there causing any amount of grief for the people that are different from them...from internment camps for Japanese Americans during WW2, right down the the people that victimised ANYONE who looked to be of Middle Eastern descent after 9/11.
I'm also pretty sure the KKK thinks of itself as a group of fine, upstanding Christians.Would any person who truly follows Christian values liked to be lumped in with them? I sincerely doubt it.

 

[OfPeace]

I have decided to stop posting inflammatory comments about Islam, because I don’t have the time to produce quotes, figures, and references. (I have decided to do that before I read any of your posts to my last post, and regardless of what any of you have posted to my last post.) I posted some hateful things against my will: the Holy Spirit was directing me to no to go down that path. However, I will not feel guilty, in the future, about stating the truth. Alas, I confess: I am the sinner who is the seed that fell among the thorns:

“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.” Mat. 13:22

Jesus changed my life significantly. I read used to read the New Testament, and His words affected my decision making. I used to strive to be an emperor: dominant, powerful, and all things to everyone. I used to strive to put to shame those who crossed me. But I committed myself to Jesus, and whatever He said I followed. As a result, instead of there being an atmosphere of hostility, pessimism, and anxiety around me, there has been an atmosphere that is calm, peaceful, pleasant, and optimistic. I am forever grateful to Jesus. I am certain that the west would be like the Middle East, today, without Him.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

thats wonderful ofpeace. nice spiritual journey. but you have got to accept that there are other paths to the same spiritual fuzziness you feel through other paths.

obviously someone has been feeding you lies about islam. i pray that you will learn the truth. god bless.