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Islam, how many more will suffer????

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
RearingArabian said:

You mean like Saudi Arabia? You think those countries are ruling by Islamic Law? Only partially, I'm afraid. They've tampered with it. And the Wahabbi Muslim sect is where most of the fundamentalists are coming from, and are the current rulers of Saudi Arabia. So the example of Islam today is not the proper example.
hi dear RearingArabian, The part which you mentioned Saudi Arabia may be wrong or right but i'll never ever allow you to talk about somthing called Wahabbi Muslim because there is no such term in Islam and i don't know how you dare to blame a whole sect according to what a group of people did among them.

I just came from Saudi Arabia because i was visiting somneone there and i saw by my eyes, heard by my ears what is happening there and how the terrorists are fighting even the Saudian government and citizens because they think they concidered as non-Muslims as long as the cooperate with non-Muslims. They are sick and they are fighting thier own country. Do you imagine that? How do they fight thier own country while most of saudian are from that particular sect?
 
as you will notice this person is quoting and making things up... muslims arent suppressed... and nor will we ever be suppressed... it wont happen... and as it was said look at christians... catholics... and the others... should we pull their backgrounds out.. it wouldnt be pretty... we as muslims dont agree with what is going on... it is worng... and the only way to stop it is to take those people that are in those positions of power... bush included and remove them NOW!!! before they blow the whole world up... Arabs want nothing more than america to back off... iraqis too.. oh wait and the rest of the islamic world... because they didnt come to us as they should have and ask us to tell them to back off... they just went in and started shooting then asked questions later... no one is at fault except ALL those in POWER...
 
and truth you are not to say what there is in islam or there isnt.. wahabbi is a sect of islam whether you like it or not as is shiate and sunni and many others... you dont have to like it but as Allah SWT said... there will be 72 sects of islam and only one will enter into heaven so dont say things you know nothing about... because wahabbi is a sect of islam sorry dear but it is... and dont tell another muslim taht he is worng unless you can prove it... because Allah said that there would be these types of things... Muslim on Muslim and so on... before the day of Qiyaam... you should do research before you start telling people things hun
 

croak

Trickster
Sorry, The Truth. I guess I should explain myself more.

The part which you mentioned Saudi Arabia may be wrong or right but i'll never ever allow you to talk about somthing called Wahabbi Muslim because there is no such term in Islam and i don't know how you dare to blame a whole sect according to what a group of people did among them.
No, there is a term. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi ,
Wahhabism (Arabic الوهابية, Wahabism, Wahabbism) is a fundamentalist Islamic movement, named after Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab (1703–1792).
I think we can agree that it does exist. Now, the sect itself is fundamentalist. Let me quote my own post:
And the Wahabbi Muslim sect is where most of the fundamentalists are coming from
I said most. Why? Because it is a fundamentalist sect, and many terrorists, but not all, follow its views. It takes a very strict path, you know.

http://www.hizmetbooks.org/Sunni_Path/suwahhab.htm
The first line on the page above: [font=Verdana,Helvetica,Arial]
Although they say they are Muslims, Wahhabis, also called Najdis, are one of the groups who have departed from the Ahl as-Sunnat.
Now, I believe we are clear on that.

[/font]
How do they fight thier own country while most of saudian are from that particular sect?
I think we all know that Muslims do fight one another. This is not something that should be done, but it happens when someone believes someone else isn't a true believer. And never mind if they are of the same sect; people can have different views within a sect, can't they?

Oh why did I bother to post.......anyways, next person.

What does that mean? You have taken a look at criticism of the Quran, perhaps?
Have you also looked at, say, Christian apologists' justifications of the Bible, or atheists' criticisms of the idea of a deity?
I have seen many people stating there are contradictions in the Qur'an, and I believe I have been able to refute them, yet I may not have actively posted them here. I believe that the Bible is supposed to be one unified book, which it is not, seeing as there are many versions available, some omitting certain parts. The poll on the main page put quite a few of them. And yes, I have looked at the athiest claims of a deity, yet still believe that the world has to have a Creator. I mean, you say the Big Bang created the universe and such, right? But where did the Big Bang come from? How did matter come from nothing? I have yet to hear a reply on that. And mop, you think during all the time I had spent on RF, I hadn't bothered learning from other people?
as you will notice this person is quoting and making things up... muslims arent suppressed... and nor will we ever be suppressed... it wont happen.
Quoting and making things up? One definition of suppression, courtesy of Google:
[size=-1]
forceful prevention; putting down by power or authority; "the suppression of heresy"; "the quelling of the rebellion"; "the stifling of all dissent"
[/size]
Well, Muslim girls in schools in France cannot wear hijab. I believe everyone knows that. Now, the government is forcing them not to wear hijab, right? In other words, forceful prevention of hijab, or suppression. Just one simple example of suppression.

they just went in and started shooting then asked questions later... no one is at fault except ALL those in POWER...
I agree. They shouldn't have done that. But all in power? Well, I believe Kofi Annan is trying to help the world, and he's in a position of power. Should we remove him? And Mehlis (you might not have heard of him) is in a position of power in the U.N. and he's trying to file a report on who killed Rafiq Al-Hariri, which will make most Lebanese happy. Should we remove him? I say remove those in power who are not doing their job properly would be a better phrase.

and truth you are not to say what there is in islam or there isnt.. wahabbi is a sect of islam whether you like it or not as is shiate and sunni and many others... you dont have to like it but as Allah SWT said... there will be 72 sects of islam and only one will enter into heaven so dont say things you know nothing about... because wahabbi is a sect of islam sorry dear but it is... and dont tell another muslim taht he is worng unless you can prove it... because Allah said that there would be these types of things... Muslim on Muslim and so on... before the day of Qiyaam... you should do research before you start telling people things hun
Yes, I know it is a sect. I did say Wahhabi Muslim sect, after all. Lebanon has had the honour to host quite a few Muslim sects in its small area. Anyways, how to prove it. Let me put a link I already put earlier in this post: http://www.hizmetbooks.org/Sunni_Path/suwahhab.htm
A nice, long book of sorts that refutes Wahhabis. So, I've done my research. Now since this sect is deviating from mainstream Islam, it isn't exactly Muslim on Muslim. And Muslims can debate with each other on things, can they not? But if it results in fighting, that is totally unacceptable.

I have a feeling I'm going to be standing in the middle of a stampede of posts soon. Anyways, I say to the author of this thread, once again, to provide proof of his claims.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
IslamicMuslimah said:
and truth you are not to say what there is in islam or there isnt.. wahabbi is a sect of islam whether you like it or not as is shiate and sunni and many others... you dont have to like it but as Allah SWT said... there will be 72 sects of islam and only one will enter into heaven so dont say things you know nothing about... because wahabbi is a sect of islam sorry dear but it is... and dont tell another muslim taht he is worng unless you can prove it... because Allah said that there would be these types of things... Muslim on Muslim and so on... before the day of Qiyaam... you should do research before you start telling people things hun
Did you read the history of the so called Wahibism or you just heard of it within muslims or from some websites like what brother RearingArabian did?

Firstly,You have to know my sister that Mohammed bin abdel wahab came to renew the religion when Arabia went back to worship idols and some were asking foe help from dead people in grave and i challenge you if you proved for me that Mohammed bin abdel wahab he is the person who established this sect.

Secondly, regarding to my few poor information i know that Shiate says that they are Shiate and many other sects too but the "so called" Wahabbe never claim to be sabordinate and releate to a sect called wahabbi.

Thirdly, the "so called" wahabi are just Sunnah.
 

The Black Whirlwind

Well-Known Member
IslamicMuslimah said:
Arabs want nothing more than america to back off... iraqis too.. oh wait and the rest of the islamic world... because they didnt come to us as they should have and ask us to tell them to back off... they just went in and started shooting then asked questions later... no one is at fault except ALL those in POWER...
i guess you are forgetting the kurds that want america in iraq, and the many people who want democracy.
 
Those who commited the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades were so called "Christians" but does that make Christianity wrong, NO! Just because some "Muslims" have commited crimes against humanity doesnt make Islam wrong. Judge the people, not the belief for its how someone interprets a belief that shows their true colors.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Muhhamad Abdul Salam said:
Those who commited the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades were so called "Christians" but does that make Christianity wrong, NO! Just because some "Muslims" have commited crimes against humanity doesnt make Islam wrong. Judge the people, not the belief for its how someone interprets a belief that shows their true colors.

Good point. Frubals on your head...:)

~Victor
 
Fat Kat Matt said:
i guess you are forgetting the kurds that want america in iraq, and the many people who want democracy.
Everyone wants democracy...just not America's democracy. Why? Because it would go in theirs and remain theirs, that it it would remain America's (American controlled I mean).
 
The Truth said:
hi dear RearingArabian, The part which you mentioned Saudi Arabia may be wrong or right but i'll never ever allow you to talk about somthing called Wahabbi Muslim because there is no such term in Islam and i don't know how you dare to blame a whole sect according to what a group of people did among them.

I just came from Saudi Arabia because i was visiting somneone there and i saw by my eyes, heard by my ears what is happening there and how the terrorists are fighting even the Saudian government and citizens because they think they concidered as non-Muslims as long as the cooperate with non-Muslims. They are sick and they are fighting thier own country. Do you imagine that? How do they fight thier own country while most of saudian are from that particular sect?
I second that, Arabia may not be perfect but as long as Mecca, Medina, and the rest of the Holy Lands remain inside Arabian territory I will faithfully stand by and support Saudi Arabia and the Arabian Royal Family.
 

shema

Active Member
Well the title is how many more will suffer. I wasnt there but i can be pretty sure that now one suffered worse than Jesus. and He rose above death. All of our differences causes confusion.
Many Christians believe that Satan is the father of Confusion, and it is not God's will to be confused. If our minds our cluttered with confusion, than how will we ever achieve anything. If we cant achieve anything than why are we here?
This would be a stronghold of someone who is not saved. If we really studied all three books thoroughly, than we could easily see the big pictre. opinions are not as informative as the three books in which we speak of.
whether saved or not, anything said that is not lined up with the word of your god or self, (whichever works for you), is not true.
As for me I have a peace that surpasses all understanding. If someone were a real follower of Christ, it should be self-evident. I love you all and pray that God performs something miraculous in the life of anyone reading this. as a matter of fact my faith is so strong.... THIS WEEK!!!.. IN THE NAME OF JESUS.
 
shema said:
Many Christians believe that Satan is the father of Confusion, and it is not God's will to be confused. If our minds our cluttered with confusion, than how will we ever achieve anything. If we cant achieve anything than why are we here?
The Bible and history thereof is the most confusing conglomeration of texts I've ever read. Would someone please explain the trinity in a straight-forward coherent manner that doesn't require a PhD in Theology to understand?

No, actually, I don't want to hear about the trinity anymore. I'm just trying to show Shema that his/her simple view of the world is easily disputed.
 

shema

Active Member
Ibrahim Al-Amin said:
The Bible and history thereof is the most confusing conglomeration of texts I've ever read. Would someone please explain the trinity in a straight-forward coherent manner that doesn't require a PhD in Theology to understand?

No, actually, I don't want to hear about the trinity anymore. I'm just trying to show Shema that his/her simple view of the world is easily disputed.
I can see that i clearly have ruffled your feathers on some topics. But if I have a simple view of the world, and my views are from the Bible, then how come the bible and history are the most confusing conglomeration of text?

isnt that an oxymoron?
 

Ezzedean

Active Member
Radar said:
You obvious have trouble reading. It would seem that if you were already told in surah 5 not to befriend the Jew and the Christian that you would not need to say it again. So go to surah 60 why would you then be able to befriend them (Jews and Christians). Do you not see the contradiction there? So surah 60 would have to apply to other religions besides Judaism and Christianity. If not, then your quran contradicts itself. But I understand that you are blinded by faith and will try to rationalise the irrational. All faiths do so I know you can't help yourself.
Surah 4:54
Oh ye who believe!
Take not the Jews
And the Christians
For your friends and protectors:
They are but friends and protectors
To each other...

This verse is talking about the Muslim looking to the Christian or Jew for comfort or guidance. It is saying that they are more likely to combine against you than to help you. This happened more than once in the lifetime of Mohammed, and in after-ages again and again.

So it's not saying to not assosciate or be peaceful with them. When it comes to guidance and comfort or help, you get it from the Quran, not from them. Please Christians and Jews dont take this personally, but its written as if the Quran is the word of God, and for the Quran to be the word of God, to go to a Jewish person or Christian for guidance and help, your going the wrong way.

Sura 4:51 explains this before it says what is said in sura 4:54

To thee We sent the Scripture
In truth, confirming
The scripture that came
Before it, and guarding it
In safety: so judge
Between them them by what
God hath revealed,
And follow not their vain
Desires, diverging
From the truth that hath come
To thee. To each among you
Have We prescribed a Law
And an Open Way.
If God had so willed
He would have made you a single People, But (His plan is) to test you in what
He hath given you: so strive
As in a race in all virtues.
The goal of you all is to God;
It is He that will show you
The truth of the matters
In which ye dispute.

I hope this makes it a little bit more clear, and hasn't upset anyone.

Peace and Blessings
 

Smoke

Done here.
shema said:
I can see that i clearly have ruffled your feathers on some topics. But if I have a simple view of the world, and my views are from the Bible, then how come the bible and history are the most confusing conglomeration of text?
It could be that your view of the Bible is overly simplistic, or it could be that your views don't really come from the Bible at all. I've noticed a disturbing tendency among Christians, especially Evangelicals and Charismatics, to say the Bible says this or that when the Bible actually says nothing of the kind.
 

Ezzedean

Active Member
I forgot aswell... it's also not saying Judaism and Christianity were not inspired by God and his prophets, just that it had been altered or changed throughout time...
(I am not saying this is fact and 100 percent true, but it is what the Quran teaches, which I believe is from God, I'm sorry if I offended anyone with those comments.)

Peace and Blessings
 
MidnightBlue said:
It could be that your view of the Bible is overly simplistic, or it could be that your views don't really come from the Bible at all. I've noticed a disturbing tendency among Christians, especially Evangelicals and Charismatics, to say the Bible says this or that when the Bible actually says nothing of the kind.
Thanks, MidnightBlue.

Shema, MidnightBlue is spot-on. The Bible indeed is confusing and illogical, but your views are undeveloped and predictable. Your arguments are thin, and you obviously have done minimal research when you try to prove a point. I respect your views, as I do everyone's here, but if you are going to try covert proselytization, you're going to have to do more research to be believable.
 

shema

Active Member
ok so if this is a discussian forum and everyone says their own opinion about their religion, how is it that I am the only one trying to convert. is it because the impression that my words leave in your heart invade your inner most feelings? (Yes, I do quote straight from the books if you were to veiw my posts)

2.It is not I who states that my views are overly simplistic but those are the words of someone else. However if I am to be viewed that way its only because my research only has 3 sources. The Torah, The NT, and the Quran, I need not read books by other man to get a better understanding when I have the 3 main books in which I get my understanding.

I dont consider my self evangelical, however that may be how others view me. But why. My God is a persistant God but never pushy. I love anyone whom I come into contact as my own brother. I am only stating what I believe.

You may not understand the Bible, however I do, and I also understand the Quran I have a full understanding. of all 3 books. Because I know the only way to find out the truth is to study for yourself.
 
shema said:
ok so if this is a discussian forum and everyone says their own opinion about their religion, how is it that I am the only one trying to convert. is it because the impression that my words leave in your heart invade your inner most feelings? (Yes, I do quote straight from the books if you were to veiw my posts)

2.It is not I who states that my views are overly simplistic but those are the words of someone else. However if I am to be viewed that way its only because my research only has 3 sources. The Torah, The NT, and the Quran, I need not read books by other man to get a better understanding when I have the 3 main books in which I get my understanding.

I dont consider my self evangelical, however that may be how others view me. But why. My God is a persistant God but never pushy. I love anyone whom I come into contact as my own brother. I am only stating what I believe.

You may not understand the Bible, however I do, and I also understand the Quran I have a full understanding. of all 3 books. Because I know the only way to find out the truth is to study for yourself.
I've found in life that those who claim wisdom are usually ill-informed and those who claim piety are often profane. You claim to understand the Bible? And the Torah? And the Quran? Theologians spend decades buried in small rooms under large stacks of books trying to understand the Word of God. Are we that blessed, here at RF, to have someone with such a profound understanding of one of mankinds deepest mysteries? You mean, after spending 16 hours per day dissecting the Sacred Text's internal meanings, you have the time to come here and draft your comments?

The only thing we agree on, Shema, is that the only way to truth is through self-study. The difference between us is that only one of us can honestly claim to seek truth, and I will continue to do so.
 
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