Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[England my lionheart]

musings of an indian apostate this is worth a read,what do you think?

 

[pharon85]

Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Which Islam are we talking about yours or theirs,when i have been told on this forum that Islam is the fastest growing religion and there are 1.6 billion Muslims this cannot be correct because most are following false Hadiths and i am told cannot be true Muslims.
As for killing in the Quran there is plenty,Islam grew from violence and it was'nt a cry for help from the countries that were invaded was it.
I have been reading the Quran and although it is hard going and dose not translate into English very well ther is violence aplenty.

if islam grow by violence, how come that until now people convert to islam ?
also wikipedia is not a holly book for me
any one can write what ever he want on it
and to proof that to you
from your link
A minority of medieval Islamic jurists, such as Hanafi jurist Sarakhsi,[4] Maliki jurist Abu al-Walid al-Baji, and Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyyah,[5] and some contemporary Islamic jurists, such as Shafi`i Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa[6][7] and Shi'a Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri,[8] argued or issued fatwas that either the changing of religion is not punishable or is only punishable under restricted circumstances, but these minority opinions have not found broad acceptance among the majority of Islamic scholars.[9][10][11][12] Some groups within Islam such as the Shi'a Ismaili reject death for apostasy altogether.
they say all of that people say it is not punishable but that is not acceptable for Moslem's
this people are the biggest about 95% of Moslem's follow their opinions
so how come that they say it is not punishable and Moslem's insist that is it is punishable??????
in Egypt there are a famous story about a professor in university who became an atheist
he went to the court which judged only that his wife must be separated from him
because she is still Moslem's and Moslem's don't marry atheists
that is all
no one was killed
you can notice he was in the hand of the court and if Moslem's kill for that
he would be dead by now and that wasn't happen
also suppose you converted to Islam and you are British and live in england which is not Islamic country
then you converted so who will kill you ???
another Moslem's???
they cant because in quran (never kill a spirit unless it is for right) 6:151
so as a Moslem's you cant kill any spirit unless for reason like war
and to proof that Islam don't force any one to be Moslem's when Moslem's entered any country
for example Egypt
Egyptian church is the leader of orthodox eastern churches in the east
and that is from the beginning of Christianity
Islam entered Egypt
if Islam force people to be Moslem's
how come there are a strong church like that in Egypt
are all the Egyptian are Moslem's?
no there are a lot of Christians
how can they still live there and open and build churches
no one kill them
myself i have Christian friends ,no problem for me or for them in that
that is my religion
According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.
who force all that people to be Moslem's
your problem and every one here believe that Islam is evil that you read the suspicions of some writers about islam
and that is suspicions not facts
but you deal with it as facts and don't accept when we as Moslem's say that is wrong
if you really want to know about Islam you first must see what Islam say then look for suspicions
and ask but you come here with suspicions and insists that is the true
some one here called me a liar just because i say that is not islam

 

[pharon85]

musings of an indian apostate this is worth a read,what do you think?

haha
it make me laugh
specially that part
. I recall once I stayed at the home of an aunt and a beggar knocked at the door asking for something to eat.My aunt went to the kitchen, got a piece of bread and some cheese and gave it to him. But before, she rotated the food around my head. I perfectly knew why she was doing it. According to her belief system by rotating the food around someone’s head she was taking away the ill surrounding that person and giving it away to the beggar.
he speaks as he know Islam well
from that paragraph i can see he know no thing about Islam
my advice to you and i hope you accept and not to say i know all about Islam
read first quran then ask about it
not to take every word against Islam and assume it is right and when we say that is wrong you don't believe us

 

[Alla Prima]

he ended slavery 1400 years ago

Muhammad sold children and women into slavery after he killed the men. Read his biographies.

 

[Alla Prima]

look to answer of the one who speak about critique
so there are no thing in my replay right????
if my opinion against yours that will be your answer
first i'am moslem and i think i know enough about my religion
second i don't accept you to call me a lier
you talk about the movie and your opinion that it show the truth of islam
i say that is not islam
get to me from quran some thing proof that the movie is right
about apostasy
no thing in islam order you to kill for that
and what you get from quran it is about wars not about killing
you don't know mush about islam as you think
you just attack and have one opinion that what make you call anew a lier if he argue with you
and that cant be adiscussion

6- the women speaks how he family abuse her, that is some thing any women from any where with any religion can say
now is that movie critiacl for islam???????
it is full of things moslems don't do
that is not critical at all, that lies and abuse for islam

Islam abuses itself.

The following is clearly Islamic misogyny.

"Then I saw the (Hell) Fire, and I have never before, seen such a horrible sight as that, and I saw that the majority of its dwellers were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for that?" He replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was said. "Do they disbelieve in Allah (are they ungrateful to Allah)?" He replied, "They are not thankful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors done to them. Even if you do good to one of them all your life, when she seems some harshness from you, she will say, "I have never seen any good from you.' " Bukhari 7.62.125

 

[Alla Prima]

Islamic misogyny:

004.015 PICKTHAL: As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).

004.034 PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

002.223 PICKTHAL: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).

024.002 PICKTHAL: The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.



Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) or 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." Sahih Bukhari 1. 6. 301

 

[pharon85]

Islam abuses itself.

The following is clearly Islamic misogyny.

"Then I saw the (Hell) Fire, and I have never before, seen such a horrible sight as that, and I saw that the majority of its dwellers were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for that?" He replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was said. "Do they disbelieve in Allah (are they ungrateful to Allah)?" He replied, "They are not thankful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors done to them. Even if you do good to one of them all your life, when she seems some harshness from you, she will say, "I have never seen any good from you.' " Bukhari 7.62.125

i asked you to proof that the movie is talking really about islam
i hope you to proof that from quran
even to proof for all here that i'am a liar as you say
about that hadith it is true
but
i can see a very bad translation
simply it is about women who are ungrateful to their husbands
if he was good with her all his life then he do some thing she didn't like she say i never seen any thing good from you
she will go to hell
so where is the abuse
that is a condition for a specific kind of women which is a bad kind indeed
not as you want us to think that all women will go to hell

 

[Alla Prima]

Anyone wishing to learn more about Islam and slavery can start here:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/015-slavery.htm

 

[Alla Prima]

i asked you to proof that the movie is talking really about islam
i hope you to proof that from quran
even to proof for all here that i'am a liar as you say
about that hadith it is true
but
i can see a very bad translation
simply it is about women who are ungrateful to their husbands
if he was good with her all his life then he do some thing she didn't like she say i never seen any thing good from you
she will go to hell
so where is the abuse
that is a condition for a specific kind of women which is a bad kind indeed
not as you want us to think that all women will go to hell

I never called you a liar and forcing women to cover their bodies is proof enough alone that Islam is a misogynistic ideology. But there is so much more. Islam is rife with misogynistic views.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 31:

Evil omen was mentioned before the Prophet: The Prophet said, "If there is evil omen in anything, it is in the house, the woman and the horse."

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 33:

The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."

 

[pharon85]

Islamic misogyny:

004.015 PICKTHAL: As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).

004.034 PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

002.223 PICKTHAL: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).

024.002 PICKTHAL: The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.



Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) or 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." Sahih Bukhari 1. 6. 301

all of it true hadiths but the translation sucks
if you want to proof some thing proof it right not use this cheap way
playing with translation is some thing very cheap

 

[Alla Prima]

all of it true hadiths but the translation sucks
if you want to proof some thing proof it right not use this cheap way
playing with translation is some thing very cheap

Your criticism has no value. PICKTHAL is one of the the most approved translation by Islamic scholars and Islamic websites around the world.

 

[pharon85]

Anyone wishing to learn more about Islam and slavery can start here:

TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Does Islam Condone Slavery?

very cool a site against islam to learn islam from it
first hear what we say then hear what they say about us
why don't you put .1% that mapy that sites tell lies
why you are 100% sure that it is right
as amoslem what can is see that they talk about some thing not even close to my religion

I never called you a liar and forcing women to cover their bodies is proof enough alone that Islam is a misogynistic ideology. But there is so much more. Islam is rife with misogynistic views.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 31:

Evil omen was mentioned before the Prophet: The Prophet said, "If there is evil omen in anything, it is in the house, the woman and the horse."

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 33:

The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."

Then you know little of Islam. Or you're lying.

so what is that mean if it don't mean i'am liar?
also about covering for women
in islam women can only show her face and hands
you think that is bad?
nuns wear the same is that bad
also i don't understand what is volume ,book,number
is it quran or hadith
or what??

ok

 

[pharon85]

Your criticism has no value. PICKTHAL is one of the the most approved translation by Islamic scholars and Islamic websites around the world.

which sites
sites against islam as the one you get
and who approved it
the translation switch all the meaning and you use it in a bad way

 

[Alla Prima]

so what is that mean if it don't mean i'am liar?
also about covering for women
in islam women can only show her face and hands
you think that is bad?
nuns wear the same is that bad
also i don't understand what is volume ,book,number
is it quran or hadith
or what??

ok

That Islam treats women like chattel cannot be disputed unless one ignores the overwelming evidence that supports this. If you believe the movie is false then I would say you know little of Islam knowing only the positive aspects of Islam told to you by your instructors.

Now if you DO know that women are treated like chattel and refuse to acknowledge this fact here and now then you are lying by saying the movie is false and does not represent Islam. But I don't know which it is so I am not calling you a liar.

Everything I've quoted is from Bukhari or Koran.

 

[Alla Prima]

which sites
sites against islam as the one you get
and who approved it
the translation switch all the meaning and you use it in a bad way

Here are but a few. There are too many to list. I would be here all day. The Muslim world disagrees with your criticism and so do I.

http://www.islam101.com/quran/QTP/index.htm

http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=86&translator=4

http://arthursclassicnovels.com/arthurs/koran/koran-pickthal.html

http://www.itsislam.net/quran/surah.asp?sid=86

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/

 

[pharon85]

That Islam treats women like chattel cannot be disputed unless one ignores the overwelming evidence that supports this. If you believe the movie is false then I would say you know little of Islam knowing only the positive aspects of Islam told to you by your instructors.

Now if you DO know that women are treated like chattel and refuse to acknowledge this fact here and now then you are lying by saying the movie is false and does not represent Islam. But I don't know which it is so I am not calling you a liar.

Everything I've quoted is from Bukhari or Koran.

you insist on things you believe it is facts
and i know that is not true
and there is no thing called evidence i have seen until now
also what kind of sites you get
sites against islam
i cant accept it
first do you know what is bukhari is?
he was some one who lived 100 years after prophet mohamed death and tried to collect what he says which mean in arabic hadith which equal to talks in english
he collect most of what he heared but that don't mean his book is holly or can't be criticized, because a lot of Islam enemys lied and put fake hadiths
there are levels for hadiths
strong,weak,fake
what you get is just weak or fake mapy it is in bukhari but that don't mean it is true
easily i can proof that because there are many other hadiths books who will proof that it is fake
quran is holly book for me and i accept every letter on it
did you used it?
once and you used it to talk about apostates while that part was talking about atheists and war with them
you can't force me on using things i 'am sure it is fake
you talk about women in islam
so do you know women what is women rights in islam?
for sure you will say no thing
and that will proof for me that you know no thing
if women have no rights in islam why the percentage of women converting to islam is more than men
this topic name is islam ,how mush do you really know about it
but i can see for you it is islam how mush don't you really know about it

 

[pharon85]

Here are but a few. There are too many to list. I would be here all day. The Muslim world disagrees with your criticism and so do I.

The Quran Translation by M. Pickthall

Read Quran Koran Qura'n القران الكريم in English by Pickthal

The Meaning Of The Glorious Quran translation by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall : Arthur's Classic Novels

itsIslam - Quran - Surah At-Tariq (the morning star, the nightcomer)

CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

please respect us
you got here a mix of islamic and non islamic sites
some things here true and other are wrong
when want to know about islam search about islam
not what people think

 

[.lava]

Your criticism has no value. PICKTHAL is one of the the most approved translation by Islamic scholars and Islamic websites around the world.

it is crystal clear you do not know single Arabic. so stop acting like you have knowledge over language please. i know those translations and i sometimes even use them but i know for sure there are weak tranlations in verses. you do not know whic verse translated correctly which one lost the meaning because of weak translation of one word...etc. on one hand you insult entire Islamic world on the other hand you trust some Muslims because they feed your mind in the way you like=to hate Islam.

be honest, at least.

.

 

[Breathe]

Lava, pharon, what Qur'an translation in English would you suggest?

 

[Alla Prima]

you insist on things you believe it is facts

I believe what I see with my own eyes.

and i know that is not true
and there is no thing called evidence i have seen until now
also what kind of sites you get
sites against islam
i cant accept it

You reveal yourself in this comment. You can only see sites which criticize Islam as 'against Islam'. These sites aren't against Islam. They are looking for truth about Islam. We know Muslims do not tell us the truth about the teachings of Islam so we must go looking for the truth. Because you see this search for truth regarding Islam as 'against Islam' tells me you wish to promote a false picture of Islam.

You say the movie does not represent Islam. The right response from you should have been something like - "I don't see any misogyny within Islam myself but if there is misogyny then yes we must look for it and get rid of it". Instead you stick your head in the sand and say no no no.

how mush do you really know about it
but i can see for you it is islam how mush don't you really know about it

I'm sure you would have me adopt your version of Islam. No thank you.