Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[Alla Prima]

i naturally ask you to prove your point. am i more clear now?

I got an idea. Let's talk about apostasy. What's your understanding of apostasy?

 

[England my lionheart]

Nobody will talk about Apostacy,i tried to use the film to get some response but you know the rest

 

[Alla Prima]

Nobody will talk about Apostacy,i tried to use the film to get some response but you know the rest

I'm not suprised but I think people need to understand how Islam treats it's members who choose to leave Islam. Something we here in the West consider our birthright - to choose freely what religion we wish to be part of.

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:


Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 37:

I said, "By Allah, Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271:

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:

There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed.

 

[England my lionheart]

I'm not suprised but I think people need to understand how Islam treats it's members who choose to leave Islam. Something we here in the West consider our birthright - to choose freely what religion we wish to be part of.

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:


Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 37:

I said, "By Allah, Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271:

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:

There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed.

I am not surprised they will not answer questions about Apostacy ,such a peaceful religion.

 

[England my lionheart]

I'm not suprised but I think people need to understand how Islam treats it's members who choose to leave Islam. Something we here in the West consider our birthright - to choose freely what religion we wish to be part of.

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:


Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 37:

I said, "By Allah, Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271:

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:

There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed.

I have heard of a Charity that helps Apostates start again

 

[.lava]

is apostacy another movie?

there are thousands of fake hadiths. we do not follow hadiths that do not match with Qur'an.

.

 

[.lava]

I'm not suprised but I think people need to understand how Islam treats it's members who choose to leave Islam. Something we here in the West consider our birthright - to choose freely what religion we wish to be part of.

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:


Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 37:

I said, "By Allah, Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271:

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:

There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed.

from Qur'an;

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion

.

 

[England my lionheart]

So are they false Hadiths?

 

[.lava]

So are they false Hadiths?

God did not give permission to anyone to kill people who converts other religion. that is a personal choice and it is between person and God, no third party has a place there.

.

 

[England my lionheart]

God did not give permission to anyone to kill people who converts other religion. that is a personal choice and it is between person and God, no third party has a place there.

.

But what of the Hadiths

 

[.lava]

'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

yes, this is a lie. this is a threat and an invitation to people to be liars. sincerety is very important in religion. if one does not want to be a Muslim, that is his business to know, not ours. but if he had fear of getting killed then he would pretend to be Muslim. this is one of the worst things one could do.

.

 

[Alla Prima]

from Qur'an;

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion

.

Islam has two faces. One is the more peaceful Meccan period and the other is the more violent political Medinan period. The above verse is often tossed out to show how tolerant Islam is. This is the peaceful face of Islam but it is a lie. The later more intolerant verses were to be considered "better" and some abrogated earlier verses.

9.29
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Islam's stated goal is to dominate all religions.


61.9
He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.

9.33
He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.

48.28
He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions; and Allah is enough for a witness.

 

[Alla Prima]

God did not give permission to anyone to kill people who converts other religion. that is a personal choice and it is between person and God, no third party has a place there.

.

This is nonsense. It is an attempt to dodge what's clearly written in the most respected Hadith.

 

[Alla Prima]

'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

yes, this is a lie. this is a threat and an invitation to people to be liars. sincerety is very important in religion. if one does not want to be a Muslim, that is his business to know, not ours. but if he had fear of getting killed then he would pretend to be Muslim. this is one of the worst things one could do.

.

To simply say this is a lie will not do. These are words from Muhammad so you must believe he is a lier. There are many important Muslims throughout history who have murdered apostates because they believed quite firmly that Apostates are to be killed. Currently there are many muslims leaving Islam who fear for their lives. If it was all a lie then they would have nothing to fear.

All four major schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence state that the apostate is to be put to death.

The Caliphs of Islam, the great scholars of Islam and the records of Hadith all support death for the Apostate.

 

[.lava]

Islam has two faces. One is the more peaceful Meccan period and the other is the more violent political Medinan period. The above verse is often tossed out to show how tolerant Islam is. This is the peaceful face of Islam but it is a lie. The later more intolerant verses were to be considered "better" and some abrogated earlier verses.

believe as you wish. Islam remains as it is.

Islam's stated goal is to dominate all religions.


61.9
He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.

9.33
He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.

48.28
He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions; and Allah is enough for a witness.

61:9 Huvellezî ersele resûlehu bil hudâ ve dînil hakkı li yuzhirehu aled dîni kullihî ve lev kerihel muşrikû(muşrikûne).

9:33 Huvellezî ersele resûlehu bil hudâ ve dînil hakkı li yuzhirehu aled dîni kullihî ve lev kerihel muşrikûn(muşrikûne).

48:28 Huvellezî ersele resûlehu bil hudâ ve dînil hakkı li yuzhirehu aled dîni kullih(kullihî), ve kefâ billâhi şehîdâ(şehîden).

LI YUZHIRE-HU: to make it 'zahir': to show, to reveal, to display, to manifest.

zahir (on its own);

zahir
1. clear, evident.
2. outer appearance.
3. apparently, it seems that ...: Yanılmışım zahir. Apparently I´m mistaken.
4. certainly, of course.

according to your false translation it appears to be 'prevail' or 'over come'.

.

 

[.lava]

This is nonsense. It is an attempt to dodge what's clearly written in the most respected Hadith.

Qur'an is the one what's the most respected. if a hadith is Kudsi -truly words of Mohammad(PBUH)- then we practice them, if not they are only words of evil people. that, we do not respect.

.

 

[Alla Prima]

believe as you wish. Islam remains as it is.

Has nothing to do with what I believe but historical facts.

61:9 Huvellezî ersele resûlehu bil hudâ ve dînil hakk? li yuzhirehu aled dîni kullihî ve lev kerihel mu?rikû(mu?rikûne).

9:33 Huvellezî ersele resûlehu bil hudâ ve dînil hakk? li yuzhirehu aled dîni kullihî ve lev kerihel mu?rikûn(mu?rikûne).

48:28 Huvellezî ersele resûlehu bil hudâ ve dînil hakk? li yuzhirehu aled dîni kullih(kullihî), ve kefâ billâhi ?ehîdâ(?ehîden).

LI YUZHIRE-HU: to make it 'zahir': to show, to reveal, to display, to manifest.

zahir (on its own);

zahir
1. clear, evident.
2. outer appearance.
3. apparently, it seems that ...: Yan?lm???m zahir. Apparently I´m mistaken.
4. certainly, of course.

according to your false translation it appears to be 'prevail' or 'over come'.

.

Here are all the translations accepted by english speaking Muslims. And please do not think that the Koran is the only place where comments like these are made.

061.009
YUSUFALI: It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
PICKTHAL: He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse.
SHAKIR: He it is Who sent His Messenger with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.


009.033
YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
PICKTHAL: He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse.
SHAKIR: He it is Who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.

048.028
YUSUFALI:[/b] It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion: and enough is Allah for a Witness.
PICKTHAL: He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion. And Allah sufficeth as a Witness.
SHAKIR: He it is Who sent His Messenger with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions; and Allah is enough for a witness.

 

[.lava]

To simply say this is a lie will not do.

i did not simply say it is a lie. Qur'an says there is no compulsion in religion.

also, Qur'an tells about those who pretend to be Muslims. they are named Munafiqoon. there is a entire surah and dozens of verses about them.

63:1 When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Messenger; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Messenger, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.

63:6 It is alike to them whether you beg forgiveness for them or do not beg forgiveness for them; Allah will never forgive them..

he never ordered them to be killed. on the contrary he was begging God for their forgiveness.

4:140 And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse.

despite killing them, Muslims sit with them and talk to them. Muslims leave their side when they mock Allah.

These are words from Muhammad so you must believe he is a lier.

he was never a liar. read the verses above. that hadith is fake one.

There are many important Muslims throughout history who have murdered apostates because they believed quite firmly that Apostates are to be killed.

and there still are people like that, people like you actually. they believe everything they read. they do not even bother do some investigation. they do not try to read original text of Qur'an so they depend on some translaters they do not even know who they are. they think what they were taught is Islam. how pity.

Currently there are many muslims leaving Islam who fear for their lives. If it was all a lie then they would have nothing to fear.

if they were threatened then there is something they would fear, but it is not Islam, it is ignorance of men.

All four major schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence state that the apostate is to be put to death.

Sunni Islam or Shee Islam does not exist in Qur'an. matter of fact Qur'an calls them Mushrik.

30:31 Turning to Him, and be careful of (your duty to) Him and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists,

30:32 Of those who divided their religion and became seas every sect rejoicing in what they had with them

.

 

[Alla Prima]

Qur'an is the one what's the most respected. if a hadith is Kudsi -truly words of Mohammad(PBUH)- then we practice them, if not they are only words of evil people. that, we do not respect.

.

This is the presuppostional defense I mentioned eariler.

Summary: Sometimes a Presuppositional Defense is used to defend Muhammad's actions and sayings.
1. A Muslim presuppositionalist assumes that all of the sayings and actions of Muhammad must be good.
2. Thus, any unfavorable historical record about Muhammad is automatically rejected as a false report, because the initial assumptions do not allow for any negative historical evidence.

It's a convenient tactic and will no doubt fool lesser minds. But it won't fool me.

 

[.lava]

Has nothing to do with what I believe but historical facts.
Here are all the translations accepted by english speaking Muslims. And please do not think that the Koran is the only place where comments like these are made.

061.009
YUSUFALI: It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
PICKTHAL: He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse.
SHAKIR: He it is Who sent His Messenger with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.


009.033
YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
PICKTHAL: He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse.
SHAKIR: He it is Who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.

048.028
YUSUFALI:[/b] It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion: and enough is Allah for a Witness.
PICKTHAL: He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion. And Allah sufficeth as a Witness.
SHAKIR: He it is Who sent His Messenger with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions; and Allah is enough for a witness.

and i am sorry you depend on them.

.