Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[Alla Prima]

that hadith is fake one.

Well that is curious because it is widely considered that the two most highly respected collections of hadith are the collections the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

I find that when faced with hard evidence Muslims generally resort to the tactics you're using here.

 

[Alla Prima]

and i am sorry you depend on them.

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Don't be. They make clear the true goals of Islam.

 

[.lava]

This is the presuppostional defense I mentioned eariler.

Summary: Sometimes a Presuppositional Defense is used to defend Muhammad's actions and sayings.
1. A Muslim presuppositionalist assumes that all of the sayings and actions of Muhammad must be good.
2. Thus, any unfavorable historical record about Muhammad is automatically rejected as a false report, because the initial assumptions do not allow for any negative historical evidence.

It's a convenient tactic and will no doubt fool lesser minds. But it won't fool me.

you do not need me to be fooled. you do it to yourself. you google Qur'an and read poor translations then make yourself sure you know what Qur'an says. besides i never fool people. i say what i know and leave it to you. one way or another you would follow your desire anyway.

Mohammad (PBUH) once said that someday his hadiths would be discussed and we should compare hadiths with Qur'an because he never left Qur'an. his sayings would never contradict with verses of Qur'an. therefor Qur'an comes first. if a hadith contradicts with its verses, we do not accept it.

what else contradict with Qur'an?

stoning people, killing gay people, forcing women to marriage, women having no rights to divorce....etc etc etc

.

 

[.lava]

Don't be. They make clear the true goals of Islam.

this is what you choose to believe and this is what i meant by 'following your own desire'

i am fine with it.

life is yours, choice is yours.

 

[Alla Prima]

his sayings would never contradict with verses of Qur'an. therefor Qur'an comes first. if a hadith contradicts with its verses, we do not accept it.

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There are verses in the koran which support what the respected Sahih Bukhari Hadith says about apostasy.

 

[.lava]

Well that is curious because it is widely considered that the two most highly respected collections of hadith are the collections the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

I find that when faced with hard evidence Muslims generally resort to the tactics you're using here.

this is not a tactic as i do not mind what you believe in. we know that there are nearly 400.000 fake hadiths. there've been Imams who admitted they added hadiths to hadith books.

above all, book of Islam is Qur'an, not Bukhari.

.

 

[.lava]

There are verses in the koran which support what the respected Sahih Bukhari Hadith says about apostasy.

show me.

.

 

[Alla Prima]

this is what you choose to believe and this is what i meant by 'following your own desire'

i am fine with it.

life is yours, choice is yours.

Like many others I once thought Islam was simply a peaceful religion much like what Christianity has become in modern times. I felt nothing about it other than the mosque architecture was unusual. After 9/11 I wondered about this Jihad business because I was told by Muslims that Jihad was an inner struggle. Now I know they lied to me. So I wondered what else was a lie. The more I looked into the ideology of Islam the more lies I found including the one about Islam being the religion of peace. Well it is in fact the religion of peace but only when all other religions are subjugated to Islam. When all the world is Dar-el-Islam there will be peace.

 

[Alla Prima]

show me.

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Ok but let's wrap up the Hadith first.

I showed you proof from the most repected Hadith that apostates are to be killed.

Your defense of this was to say the hadith is a fake.

This tells me you're in denial.

 

[Alla Prima]

this is not a tactic as i do not mind what you believe in. we know that there are nearly 400.000 fake hadiths. there've been Imams who admitted they added hadiths to hadith books.

above all, book of Islam is Qur'an, not Bukhari.

.

Again it isn't what I believe. It's what Islam teaches. Now you can call the most respected teachings other than the Koran a fake all you want but the Islamic world at large will disagree with you. Your defense is phony and I reject it outright as such.

 

[challupa]

Like many others I once thought Islam was simply a peaceful religion much like what Christianity has become in modern times. I felt nothing about it other than the mosque architecture was unusual. After 9/11 I wondered about this Jihad business because I was told by Muslims that Jihad was an inner struggle. Now I know they lied to me. So I wondered what else was a lie. The more I looked into the ideology of Islam the more lies I found including the one about Islam being the religion of peace. Well it is in fact the religion of peace but only when all other religions are subjugated to Islam. When all the world is Dar-el-Islam there will be peace.

It's not so much the main stream religions that are the problem but the fundamentalists in each group of people and that can include the secular world too. There are Christians that are just as fundamentalist as there are in Islam or Judaism or atheism. Watch the movie "The Jesus Camp" and you will see what I mean. There are many evangelical christians that are in full support of the war between Israel and Palestine and it's not without an agenda. So I think the problem is when people use religion for an agenda instead of love and compassion for their god and fellow man. Lumping everyone into a stereotype is not likely accurate.

 

[.lava]

Like many others I once thought Islam was simply a peaceful religion much like what Christianity has become in modern times. I felt nothing about it other than the mosque architecture was unusual. After 9/11 I wondered about this Jihad business because I was told by Muslims that Jihad was an inner struggle. Now I know they lied to me. So I wondered what else was a lie. The more I looked into the ideology of Islam the more lies I found including the one about Islam being the religion of peace. Well it is in fact the religion of peace but only when all other religions are subjugated to Islam. When all the world is Dar-el-Islam there will be peace.

inner struggle is not a lie. there are two Jihads. small Jihad is war, big Jihad is inner struggle/purifying ego.

all world would never be all Muslims. opposites make each other real.

6:108 Revile not those unto whom they pray beside Allah...

5:48 ...Had Allah willed He could have made you one community...

16:61 If Allah were to punish men for their wrong-doing, He would not leave, on the (earth), a single living creature...

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[Alla Prima]

It's not so much the main stream religions that are the problem but the fundamentalists in each group of people and that can include the secular world too. There are Christians that are just as fundamentalist as there are in Islam or Judaism or atheism. Watch the movie "The Jesus Camp" and you will see what I mean. There are many evangelical christians that are in full support of the war between Israel and Palestine and it's not without an agenda. So I think the problem is when people use religion for an agenda instead of love and compassion for their god and fellow man. Lumping everyone into a stereotype is not likely accurate.

But I don't believe extremists are using Islam for their own ends. the concept of "extremism' doesn't even exist within Islam. What we have are Muslims following the teachings of Muhammad purely. Killing, robbing, enslaving, assassination, torture, deceiving and violent jihad were all acts that were performed by Mohammed.

 

[challupa]

But I don't believe extremists are using Islam for their own ends. the concept of "extremism' doesn't even exist within Islam. What we have are Muslims following the teachings of Muhammad purely. Killing, robbing, enslaving, assassination, torture, deceiving and violent jihad were all acts that were performed by Mohammed.

That may be true, I don't know so I cannot say he did or not. But I do know that there are many beautiful people that are Islamic that are trying like everyone else to do their best in life. Many Muslim people has spoken out against the terrorist activities that are happening, they don't all agree. It sounds like you don't believe their could be good Muslims and I don't think that is true.

 

[.lava]

Ok but let's wrap up the Hadith first.

I showed you proof from the most repected Hadith that apostates are to be killed.

Your defense of this was to say the hadith is a fake.

This tells me you're in denial.

oh no, you started a monolog again.

book of Islam is Qur'an. i follow Qur'an therefor i am a Muslim. as long as a hadith contradicts with Qur'an, i would have to reject it. because it is Qur'an what God revealed not hadith books.

proofs i can show is from Qur'an. naturally. verses of Qur'an shows those hadiths are false. but if you wanna believe them then OK. there are bigot Muslims who believe them too. funny that you and they have things in common. this happens to everyone. we judge then we become what we judged. yea you become what you disdain.

love

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[.lava]

Killing, robbing, enslaving, assassination, torture, deceiving and violent jihad were all acts that were performed by Mohammed.

he ended slavery 1400 years ago, what are you talking about? killing in war does exist, yes. torture definetely has no place. it is against war rules of Islam.

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[pharon85]

Havent you been following the news? why arent you saying anything about Israel evacuating Israeli citizens from the places they lived for decades in order to promote some kind of peace process, while the Hamas response is to fire more rockets.



Hey buddy, you can wait for a whole day, I got a life, and its not on an internet argument.


I hope your joking, are you going to tell me whats wrong and whats right now? you have your own issues in the Islamic world to solve before worrying about Jews designing their own way of life. with the amounts of problems in Muslim lands, one would think that Israel would be the least of your concerns.

you are so violent even when i try to joke any any one can understand that you attack
also you didn't answer my question about the law?

 

[pharon85]

Then you know little of Islam. Or you're lying.

look to answer of the one who speak about critique
so there are no thing in my replay right????
if my opinion against yours that will be your answer
first i'am moslem and i think i know enough about my religion
second i don't accept you to call me a lier
you talk about the movie and your opinion that it show the truth of islam
i say that is not islam
get to me from quran some thing proof that the movie is right
about apostasy
no thing in islam order you to kill for that
and what you get from quran it is about wars not about killing
you don't know mush about islam as you think
you just attack and have one opinion that what make you call anew a lier if he argue with you
and that cant be adiscussion

 

[England my lionheart]

look to answer of the one who speak about critique
so there are no thing in my replay right????
if my opinion against yours that will be your answer
first i'am moslem and i think i know enough about my religion
second i don't accept you to call me a lier
you talk about the movie and your opinion that it show the truth of islam
i say that is not islam
get to me from quran some thing proof that the movie is right
about apostasy
no thing in islam order you to kill for that
and what you get from quran it is about wars not about killing
you don't know mush about islam as you think
you just attack and have one opinion that what make you call anew a lier if he argue with you
and that cant be adiscussion

Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Which Islam are we talking about yours or theirs,when i have been told on this forum that Islam is the fastest growing religion and there are 1.6 billion Muslims this cannot be correct because most are following false Hadiths and i am told cannot be true Muslims.
As for killing in the Quran there is plenty,Islam grew from violence and it was'nt a cry for help from the countries that were invaded was it.
I have been reading the Quran and although it is hard going and dose not translate into English very well ther is violence aplenty.

 

[England my lionheart]

Apostacy | International Humanist and Ethical Union I guess Apostacy isn't popular