Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[Luminous]

if what you are saying is truth
why not all the people who lived in that countries converted to Islam
and how there are people with other religions live in Islamic countries

They weren't killed. Muslims fanaticals were few back then. non-muslims did pay hier taxes.

 

[Alla Prima]

really i don't know what do you mean with that
i hope you explain

Here is the verse. How is it possible that I have spiritual good without Allah? How is it possible that I can reject Allah and not be a loser?

003.085
YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
PICKTHAL: And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

 

[Alla Prima]

of course everyone has to pay tax.

Dhimmi's were not treated as equals - they did not have full rights of Muslims. The tax was symbolic of subjection as were diminished legal rights. Dhimmis had inferior status under Islamic rule. All this was to aid in the elimination of all other religions.

the other two is false, against Islam to force people to convert.

Not according to the teachings of Islam, biographies and history books. You're in denial.

 

[Alla Prima]

if what you are saying is truth
why not all the people who lived in that countries converted to Islam
and how there are people with other religions live in Islamic countries

Many did convert to Islam. This is how Islam built it's empires. Islam didn't merely want to conquer nations and leave cultures intact and the religions to the conquered people. They wanted to convert all to Islam. Dar-el-Islam. Houes of Islam = peace according to Islam.

 

[Alla Prima]

I believe he means that he has spiritual worth even though he is not of the islamic religion (if I'm wrong please correct me Alla Prima). In my belief system we believe that all people no matter what religion have God's love and have "soul" worth. I think that is what he means.

Yes you're right. Thank you.

 

[.lava]

Here is the verse. How is it possible that I have spiritual good without Allah? How is it possible that I can reject Allah and not be a loser?

003.085
YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
PICKTHAL: And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

oh i got it. whoever seeks for religion other than Islam (submission to God) would be HASIRIN. Hasirin comes from Hüsran...i can say it is deep sadness. yes, this is what Qur'an says. but Islam is submission to God, it is not submission to tyranny of other people. only to God. so in after life, if one did not wish to reach God while he was alive, he would reach God with sadness. he would stand before God even though he did not submitted to God while on earth. Alla Prima, you might not believe in God. but i do. this verse does not contradict with my faith. i expect to reach God.

.

 

[.lava]

Dhimmi's were not treated as equals - they did not have full rights of Muslims. The tax was symbolic of subjection as were diminished legal rights. Dhimmis had inferior status under Islamic rule. All this was to aid in the elimination of all other religions.



Not according to the teachings of Islam, biographies and history books. You're in denial.

i do not know what Dhimmis. i'd check it out if i had time.

yea those teachings of Islam again! Islam the religion does not give any person to be among rest of humanity. men made religion male centred. in original it is God centred. distinguish please.

.

 

[YmirGF]

if you are here just to say things mean nothing with no proofs
that is not the place for that

I am sensing a double standard here. Why is it then that .lava can babble on about 2 billion Muslims on the planet and offer no shred of proof to support that unsupportable claim. Anyone with any kind of memory will remember that only last year the highly touted number was 1.2 (and eventually 1.3) billion Muslims. It defies logic that Islam has grown THAT rapidly. We are talking about a 55% (give or take) increase (700 billion people) in adherents and that is not reasonable. There are simply no en masse conversions happening on the planet to account for such a radical rise in the numbers. While traditionally high birth rates in Muslim families will swell the ranks, even that does not account for this "wildest dreams" concoction.

My point is, if .lava feels a need to embelish this point, what else does she feel a need to embelish? Can we believe her other claims?

You have the floor, .lava.

 

[.lava]

I am sensing a double standard here. Why is it then that .lava can babble on about 2 billion Muslims on the planet and offer no shred of proof to support that unsupportable claim. Anyone with any kind of memory will remember that only last year the highly touted number was 1.2 (and eventually 1.3) billion Muslims. It defies logic that Islam has grown THAT rapidly. We are talking about a 55% (give or take) increase (700 billion people) in adherents and that is not reasonable. There are simply no en masse conversions happening on the planet to account for such a radical rise in the numbers. While traditionally high birth rates in Muslim families will swell the ranks, even that does not account for this "wildest dreams" concoction.

My point is, if .lava feels a need to embelish this point, what else does she feel a need to embelish? Can we believe she claims?

You have the floor, .lava.

i have the floor? to be honest i really did not care for it. from now on i would say 1 billion people. cos i still do not care as i do not see how it is related my entire post and the rest of the things i say remains the same. you should not be judgemental about 1 billion people. there are many different kinds among us like any other billions. noone can bring peace to this world in case they look down on 1 billion people. that was my point. i was not trying to inform people about how Islam grows or how many Muslims out there. i know it grows but i can not give the exact number of Muslims. imo nobody can. if 2 billion offended you, i am surprise because i was not trying to highlight the number. i apologize for that.


.

 

[Alla Prima]

oh i got it. whoever seeks for religion other than Islam (submission to God) would be HASIRIN. Hasirin comes from Hüsran...i can say it is deep sadness. yes, this is what Qur'an says. but Islam is submission to God, it is not submission to tyranny of other people. only to God. so in after life, if one did not wish to reach God while he was alive, he would reach God with sadness. he would stand before God even though he did not submitted to God while on earth. Alla Prima, you might not believe in God. but i do. this verse does not contradict with my faith. i expect to reach God.

.

What it is saying is if one does not submit to Allah then he will lose all spiritual good for afterlife. I'm understanding this to mean he'll be in Hell.

So the message is Allah or Hell. All who reject Allah will have no happiness in afterlife. Allah hates other religions and denigrates those who reject Islam as 'unclean'. So I am unclean because I am an 'unbeliever' according to Islam. And note that all who reject Islam are labeled 'Unbelievers' or worse 'Kafirs'. Not Hindus or Shinto or Buddhists or Jains or Sikhs but 'Unbelievers'. You're either with us or you're against us. Believers or Unbelievers. Has it occurred to Muslims that Hindus are believers? That Buddhists are believers? No you only see others from your Islamocentric ideology.

 

[Alla Prima]

i do not know what Dhimmis. i'd check it out if i had time.

You'd do well as a Muslims to make time to understand the term Dhimmi.

 

[.lava]

What it is saying is if one does not submit to Allah then he will lose all spiritual good for afterlife. I'm understanding this to mean he'll be in Hell.

So the message is Allah or Hell. All who reject Allah will have no happiness in afterlife. Allah hates other religions and denigrates those who reject Islam as 'unclean'. So I am unclean because I am an 'unbeliever' according to Islam. And note that all who reject Islam are labeled 'Unbelievers' or worse 'Kafirs'. Not Hindus or Shinto or Buddhists or Jains or Sikhs but 'Unbelievers'. You're either with us or you're against us. Believers or Unbelievers. Has it occurred to Muslims that Hindus are believers? That Buddhists are believers? No you only see others from your Islamocentric ideology.

let me try to explain;

in every religious group, in every nation there are people who follow the right path. also in every religious group (Muslims as well) there are people who's kafir. if you convert to Islam right now, that would mean you are a Muslim but that does not mean you are not kafir.

Qur'an gives description of people. people who believes in God and people who does not believe in God, people who do good deeds and people who do evil stuff, imams that invite hell and imams that invite heaven....etc. till now i did not see any verse that divides people in three, it is always 2. it gives opposites. but there is only one main seperation. there is only one thing that makes people earn hell or heaven. that main parting is wishing to reach God. entire Qur'an divides people as people who wish to reach God or not, in other words people who turn to God or not. this word you used, 'kafir', is just one of the specialities of those who do not wish to reach God. it is a result. one might spend his entire life time as a kafir but one minute before he dies he wishes to reach God and he earns heaven. we know that that happens. as there are Muslims who don't wish to reach God, there are also non-Muslims who wish to reach God. God knows who is who.

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[Alla Prima]

let me try to explain;

in every religious group, in every nation there are people who follow the right path. also in every religious group (Muslims as well) there are people who's kafir. if you convert to Islam right now, that would mean you are a Muslim but that does not mean you are not kafir.

Qur'an gives description of people. people who believes in God and people who does not believe in God, people who do good deeds and people who do evil stuff, imams that invite hell and imams that invite heaven....etc. till now i did not see any verse that divides people in three, it is always 2. it gives opposites. but there is only one main seperation. there is only one thing that makes people earn hell or heaven. that main parting is wishing to reach God. entire Qur'an divides people as people who wish to reach God or not, in other words people who turn to God or not. this word you used, 'kafir', is just one of the specialities of those who do not wish to reach God. it is a result. one might spend his entire life time as a kafir but one minute before he dies he wishes to reach God and he earns heaven. we know that that happens. as there are Muslims who don't wish to reach God, there are also non-Muslims who wish to reach God. God knows who is who.

.

Why denigrate and insult those who do not wish to reach your Allah? Below are two of but many examples.

008.055
YUSUFALI: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.
PICKTHAL: Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.
SHAKIR: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.

Kafir (Arabic: ???? k?fir; plural ????? kuff?r) is an Arabic word meaning "rejecter" or "ingrate". In the Islamic doctrinal sense, the term refers to a person who does not recognize God (Allah) or the prophethood of Muhammad (i.e., any non-Muslim) or who hides, denies, or covers the "truth". In cultural terms, it is seen as a derogatory term[1] used to describe an unbeliever, non-Muslims, apostate from Islam and even between Muslims of different sects. It is usually translated into English as "infidel" or "unbeliever". Kafir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[.lava]

Why denigrate and insult those who do not wish to reach your Allah? Below are two of but many examples.

008.055
YUSUFALI: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.
PICKTHAL: Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.
SHAKIR: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.

there you go into inner meanings. you need a high level of saint as a teacher to know which people this verse talks about. you know why? there are people with good intentions but they do not wish to reach God, even some of them who behaive humanely to others are pagans and atheists. they are good people. but on the other hand there are certain people who do not wish to reach God and they are truly mean. they are inhumane. they do not mind kill and make people kill each other just to make more money. these two examples are not equal. even though both appears to be kafirs, they are definetely at different spots.

.

 

[pharon85]

Many did convert to Islam. This is how Islam built it's empires. Islam didn't merely want to conquer nations and leave cultures intact and the religions to the conquered people. They wanted to convert all to Islam. Dar-el-Islam. Houes of Islam = peace according to Islam.

if what are you saying is right i will give you some questions
if many converted to Islam ,why did they?
islam don't force one to be amoslem, so they won't be killed
you will say they pay the tax so they still on their religion
most of that nations were under the control of the Persian or roman empire
which forced this nations to pay a heavy taxes
when moslems take the control they canceled all that taxes for all people
also is that tax payed by all non moslems??
no, it is just payed by youth who are able to work and work so if he cant pay he won't pay
so no women or children or old people or even monks or handicapped pay it
how mush was it?
1 dinar in the year
why was it ?
was it just because you are not moslem
no it was for youth instead of serving at the army and to be under the protection of the islamic army
so that tax helped to the fast spread of islam,because every nation waited for moslems to come
for example after 5 years of moslems entering to Egypt,the Romans back and invade egypt and control on the capital alexanderia
even non moslems sent to khalifa asking him for help and pleasing him to sent an army as fast as he can
also that tax wasn't an islamic invention
for example jesues in the bible say give what for ceasr to ceasr and what for god to god
you can find western books speak about that like
adam metz in his book islamic civilization
will diorant in his book story of civilization

 

[pharon85]

You'd do well as a Muslims to make time to understand the term Dhimmi.

it take from me a lot of search to understand what is the meaning of dhimmi
man it is a very bad spelling
we spell it as ahl elzema
when you read my previous post you will know about their rights

 

[England my lionheart]

if what are you saying is right i will give you some questions
if many converted to Islam ,why did they?
islam don't force one to be amoslem, so they won't be killed
you will say they pay the tax so they still on their religion
most of that nations were under the control of the Persian or roman empire
which forced this nations to pay a heavy taxes
when moslems take the control they canceled all that taxes for all people
also is that tax payed by all non moslems??
no, it is just payed by youth who are able to work and work so if he cant pay he won't pay
so no women or children or old people or even monks or handicapped pay it
how mush was it?
1 dinar in the year
why was it ?
was it just because you are not moslem
no it was for youth instead of serving at the army and to be under the protection of the islamic army
so that tax helped to the fast spread of islam,because every nation waited for moslems to come
for example after 5 years of moslems entering to Egypt,the Romans back and invade egypt and control on the capital alexanderia
even non moslems sent to khalifa asking him for help and pleasing him to sent an army as fast as he can
also that tax wasn't an islamic invention
for example jesues in the bible say give what for ceasr to ceasr and what for god to god
you can find western books speak about that like
adam metz in his book islamic civilization
will diorant in his book story of civilization

The Jizyah tax was a tax that some Islamic states collected from non Muslims,Christians collected a simmilar tax from Muslims during the Crusades.

 

[pharon85]

The Jizyah tax was a tax that some Islamic states collected from non Muslims,Christians collected a simmilar tax from Muslims during the Crusades.

the reason is one which is paying to be be under the protection of the state
but how mush is it and and who pay it is different
Christians during the crusades take it from every one who is not one of them even they take it from Arab Christians
but moslems as i say before take it just from non moslem young people who are able to pay
if they are not able to pay ,it is ok
and moslems didn't take it from women ,children, old people, monks,handicapped
and it was 1 dinar in he year which is very cheap

 

[Alla Prima]

there you go into inner meanings. you need a high level of saint as a teacher to know which people this verse talks about. you know why? there are people with good intentions but they do not wish to reach God, even some of them who behaive humanely to others are pagans and atheists. they are good people. but on the other hand there are certain people who do not wish to reach God and they are truly mean. they are inhumane. they do not mind kill and make people kill each other just to make more money. these two examples are not equal. even though both appears to be kafirs, they are definetely at different spots.

.

The verse says the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve. It does not differenciate. Show me where it makes the distinction you've indicated here?

 

[Alla Prima]

the reason is one which is paying to be be under the protection of the state
but how mush is it and and who pay it is different
Christians during the crusades take it from every one who is not one of them even they take it from Arab Christians
but moslems as i say before take it just from non moslem young people who are able to pay
if they are not able to pay ,it is ok
and moslems didn't take it from women ,children, old people, monks,handicapped
and it was 1 dinar in he year which is very cheap

There are many scholars and historians who disagree with your interpretation. Are you a scholar or historian?