Islam is a false religion per Quran itself.

[KWED]

common islamaphobe tactic. we were discussing bible v quran. thats apples to apples

Wrong again.
We were discussing the validity of Islam. Is it true? Was the Quran authored by a omni-everything, infallible god? Are the teachings of Islam morally acceptable?
It is only you who has this weird obsession with making every response an attack on Christianity. It's almost as if you are completely unable to defend Islam.

bible does say ' go buy swords kill my deniers'

This must be about the tenth time you have made this claim. And every time I ask you to cite the verse. And every time you refuse.
And we both know this is because there is no such verse.

 

[stanberger]

So you believe that the existence of a god can be determined by the behaviour of a small number of its followers. Interesting.

Presumably you therefore disbelieve in Allah because of ISIS?

So you believe that the existence of a god can be determined by the behaviour of a small number of its followers. Interesting.

Presumably you therefore disbelieve in Allah because of ISIS?

small my foot ...every nite on the news its another church clergyman caught red handed enuff already let these guys marry a wife

 

[metis]

so you are catholic ....I knew it ....I left church well before the documented cases of church pedophilia came out but I can tell you I would have left it earlier had I known these things earlier without a second to spare how do you look at yourself in the mirror. oy vey

I did not grow up Catholic but first converted when I was 30, only to leave the Church for a bit over 20 years whereas I joined a Reform synagogue. However, something rather "strange" happened to me starting about 5 years ago that led me back to the Church.

I do not defend the disgusting pedophile actions of some of the priests, but we have to remember that they are a small fraction of priests here in the States. But what was and is unforgivable, imo, is the mishandling at the highest levels of those who were involved.

But to blame the entire Church for this is illogical, much like if one were to say "Muslims are terrorists, so why would anyone even think about converting to Islam?" I certainly don't believe that but using your "logic" one could say that.

 

[stanberger]

I did not grow up Catholic but first converted when I was 30, only to leave the Church for a bit over 20 years whereas I joined a Reform synagogue. However, something rather "strange" happened to me starting about 5 years ago that led me back to the Church.

I do not defend the disgusting pedophile actions of some of the priests, but we have to remember that they are a small fraction of priests here in the States. But what was and is unforgivable, imo, is the mishandling at the highest levels of those who were involved.

But to blame the entire Church for this is illogical, much like if one were to say "Muslims are terrorists, so why would anyone even think about converting to Islam?" I certainly don't believe that but using your "logic" one could say that.

your hypothesis is flawed the church pedophilia is not small its entrenched in the church and has been going on for centuries. the media broke open the case only in the last 25 years starting with the Boston globe

 

[metis]

your hypothesis is flawed the church pedophilia is not small its entrenched in the church and has been going on for centuries. the media broke open the case only in the last 25 years starting with the Boston globe

That is stereotyping the Church, and the use of stereotyping is a form of lying, which you are repeatedly doing here.

IOW, "Physician, heal thyself". Disgusting.

 

[stanberger]

That is stereotyping the Church, and the use of stereotyping is a form of lying, which you are repeatedly doing here.

IOW, "Physician, heal thyself". Disgusting.

my friend get your head out of the sand and be a part of the solution ...these altar boys and their families deserve better

 

[KWED]

small my foot ...every nite on the news its another church clergyman caught red handed

It is estimated that there have been around 250,000 cases over the last 70 years. Given the sample size of several billion, it is relatively small.

enuff already let these guys marry a wife

Men with a predilection for child abuse join the church because of the opportunities for abuse it presented. Non-abusive clergy don't start abusing children because they aren't married.
Protestant clergy can marry but child abuse is still rife in the protestant church.
Child sex abuse is also common in mosques and madrassas.
It is to do with predatory men abusing systems of responsibility and trust with children. It has nothing to do with any one particular faith.
I see this is yet another area where you don't understand what is going on.

 

[stanberger]

It is estimated that there have been around 250,000 cases over the last 70 years. Given the sample size of several billion, it is relatively small.

Men with a predilection for child abuse join the church because of the opportunities for abuse it presented. Non-abusive clergy don't start abusing children because they aren't married.
Protestant clergy can marry but child abuse is still rife in the protestant church.
Child sex abuse is also common in mosques and madrassas.
It is to do with predatory men abusing systems of responsibility and trust with children. It has nothing to do with any one particular faith.
I see this is yet another area where you don't understand what is going on.

never seen one case on the news against other religions. its common in the church. even pastor John hagee brother jack was recently arrested for raping a 5 yr old girl for years [san antonio express news]

 

[KWED]

my friend get your head out of the sand and be a part of the solution ...these altar boys and their families deserve better

Do you accept that Islam is defined by the actions of the tens of thousands of devout Muslims who joined ISIS to fight for the caliphate, even though most of their actions are prescribed or condoned in the Quran or sunnah?

What's that? You don't?
So you therefore accept that the Church is not defined by the tens of thousands of abusive clergy - especially as their actions are in no way promoted in the Bible.
Glad to have been able to help.

 

[KWED]

never seen one case on the news against other religions.

That's called "confirmation bias". You ignore the results that do not support your preconceptions.

its common in the church. even pastor John hagee brother jack was recently arrested for raping a 5 yr old girl for years [san antonio express news]

It is actually a problem in any organisation where men (and women) are given unsupervised positions of responsibility, trust and power over children.

Every day is a school day for you here.

 

[stanberger]

Do you accept that Islam is defined by the actions of the tens of thousands of devout Muslims who joined ISIS to fight for the caliphate, even though most of their actions are prescribed or condoned in the Quran or sunnah?

What's that? You don't?
So you therefore accept that the Church is not defined by the tens of thousands of abusive clergy - especially as their actions are in no way promoted in the Bible.
Glad to have been able to help.

look I get the fact you're trying to make yourself feel better but trying to say all religions do the same is without merit ....youre grasping at straws. you claim not to be catholic but seems to be stringent in your support for their illegal actions so that raises doubts about you ...isis is to islam what the kkk. poor boys. nazis. skinheads militias are to christianity. nothing nada

 

[KWED]

look I get the fact you're trying to make yourself feel better but trying to say all religions do the same is without merit ....youre grasping at straws.

Oh, the irony.
I am merely trying to educate you in the facts of the matter. It is you who is desperate to construct a fantasy to support your shaky grasp on the issues.

you claim not to be catholic but seems to be stringent in your support for their illegal actions so that raises doubts about you

And there we go.
I explain that child abuse is a problem in other religions and organisations and is not caused by their religious beliefs but by their pre-existing predilections which are facilitated by the system they exploit, so you accuse me of supporting child abuse by Catholic priests. It's almost like you are deliberately trying to parody a parody of the unhinged conspiracy theorist.

...isis is to islam what the kkk. poor boys. nazis. skinheads militias are to christianity. nothing nada

But ISIS justify most of what it does with direct quotes from the Quran and sunnah. Their explicit aim is to establish Islamic rule exactly as expressed in the Quran and sunnah. The KKK were a white supremacist political organisation formed to retain power amongst planation owners after the Civil War (I understand that as an American you have literally no idea about history, even your own, so you are excused this one).

But anyway, as you accept that an ideology is not defined by the actions of a small number of followers going against its principles, you presumably accept that the actions of abusive priests does not mean that the Christianity is wrong. (There are many reasons why it is wrong, but abusive priests is not one of them).
Or do you claim that the actions of ISIS mean people should leave Islam? Your arguments are so incoherent that it is difficult to know what your point is at any moment.

 

[stanberger]

Oh, the irony.
I am merely trying to educate you in the facts of the matter. It is you who is desperate to construct a fantasy to support your shaky grasp on the issues.

And there we go.
I explain that child abuse is a problem in other religions and organisations and is not caused by their religious beliefs but by their pre-existing predilections which are facilitated by the system they exploit, so you accuse me of supporting child abuse by Catholic priests. It's almost like you are deliberately trying to parody a parody of the unhinged conspiracy theorist.

But ISIS justify most of what it does with direct quotes from the Quran and sunnah. Their explicit aim is to establish Islamic rule exactly as expressed in the Quran and sunnah. The KKK were a white supremacist political organisation formed to retain power amongst planation owners after the Civil War (I understand that as an American you have literally no idea about history, even your own, so you are excused this one).

But anyway, as you accept that an ideology is not defined by the actions of a small number of followers going against its principles, you presumably accept that the actions of abusive priests does not mean that the Christianity is wrong. (There are many reasons why it is wrong, but abusive priests is not one of them).
Or do you claim that the actions of ISIS mean people should leave Islam? Your arguments are so incoherent that it is difficult to know what your point is at any moment.

Oh, the irony.
I am merely trying to educate you in the facts of the matter. It is you who is desperate to construct a fantasy to support your shaky grasp on the issues.

And there we go.
I explain that child abuse is a problem in other religions and organisations and is not caused by their religious beliefs but by their pre-existing predilections which are facilitated by the system they exploit, so you accuse me of supporting child abuse by Catholic priests. It's almost like you are deliberately trying to parody a parody of the unhinged conspiracy theorist.

But ISIS justify most of what it does with direct quotes from the Quran and sunnah. Their explicit aim is to establish Islamic rule exactly as expressed in the Quran and sunnah. The KKK were a white supremacist political organisation formed to retain power amongst planation owners after the Civil War (I understand that as an American you have literally no idea about history, even your own, so you are excused this one).

But anyway, as you accept that an ideology is not defined by the actions of a small number of followers going against its principles, you presumably accept that the actions of abusive priests does not mean that the Christianity is wrong. (There are many reasons why it is wrong, but abusive priests is not one of them).
Or do you claim that the actions of ISIS mean people should leave Islam? Your arguments are so incoherent that it is difficult to know what your point is at any moment.

you are digging yourself deeper in the hole. quit while your behind. I said I left the church before the pedophilia abuse came out publicly ....the terms 'trinity. sun day worship. church. christianity easter'. were never uttered once from the mouth of jesus not once. thats the reason I left

 

[KWED]

you are digging yourself deeper in the hole. quit while your behind.

Careful with that irony. It burns.

I said I left the church before the pedophilia abuse came out publicly

No idea what point you are referring to here, but as you said you left the church in 2002 but the child abuse in the Catholic Church was public knowledge before then, you are wrong anyway. Again. Or you were making stuff up. Again.

....the terms 'trinity. sun day worship. church. christianity easter'. were never uttered once from the mouth of jesus not once. thats the reason I left

Once again, you show your lack of knowledge of Christianity, as well as Islam. Not unusual though. Religionists are often ill-informed about the faith they follow, let alone those they don't. "Christianity" did not exist when Jesus was alive. It is a term for people who followed the teachings of "Christ" after his death. This is pretty simple stuff, even for a pastor's son from Texas.
"Easter" is an English word, originally from Dutch, so hardly surprising Jesus never used it as I don't believe he spoke Dutch, or even English.
Really not sure why Jesus not speaking English is a reason to doubt Christianity. There are plenty of much better reasons.

And once again you fail to provide any cogent argument why you chose to convert to Islam. All the initial reasons you gave have been soundly disproved, so what do you have left? Nothing, it could appear, other than a bizarre dislike of Christianity.

 

[stanberger]

Careful with that irony. It burns.

No idea what point you are referring to here, but as you said you left the church in 2002 but the child abuse in the Catholic Church was public knowledge before then, you are wrong anyway. Again. Or you were making stuff up. Again.

Once again, you show your lack of knowledge of Christianity, as well as Islam. Not unusual though. Religionists are often ill-informed about the faith they follow, let alone those they don't. "Christianity" did not exist when Jesus was alive. It is a term for people who followed the teachings of "Christ" after his death. This is pretty simple stuff, even for a pastor's son from Texas.
"Easter" is an English word, originally from Dutch, so hardly surprising Jesus never used it as I don't believe he spoke Dutch, or even English.
Really not sure why Jesus not speaking English is a reason to doubt Christianity. There are plenty of much better reasons.

And once again you fail to provide any cogent argument why you chose to convert to Islam. All the initial reasons you gave have been soundly disproved, so what do you have left? Nothing, it could appear, other than a bizarre dislike of Christianity.

Careful with that irony. It burns.

No idea what point you are referring to here, but as you said you left the church in 2002 but the child abuse in the Catholic Church was public knowledge before then, you are wrong anyway. Again. Or you were making stuff up. Again.

Once again, you show your lack of knowledge of Christianity, as well as Islam. Not unusual though. Religionists are often ill-informed about the faith they follow, let alone those they don't. "Christianity" did not exist when Jesus was alive. It is a term for people who followed the teachings of "Christ" after his death. This is pretty simple stuff, even for a pastor's son from Texas.
"Easter" is an English word, originally from Dutch, so hardly surprising Jesus never used it as I don't believe he spoke Dutch, or even English.
Really not sure why Jesus not speaking English is a reason to doubt Christianity. There are plenty of much better reasons.

And once again you fail to provide any cogent argument why you chose to convert to Islam. All the initial reasons you gave have been soundly disproved, so what do you have left? Nothing, it could appear, other than a bizarre dislike of Christianity.

if all else fails with these disbelievers remember folks. 'seasons may change. but god;s word is eternal ' o t. god is one ' n t god is 3 trinity. trigod'. quran god is one ' quran had to come

 

[KWED]

if all else fails with these disbelievers remember folks. 'seasons may change. but god;s word is eternal ' o t. god is one ' n t god is 3 trinity. trigod'. quran god is one ' quran had to come

Are you ok?

 

[stanberger]

Are you ok?

Are you ok?

just fine. you ?

 

[KWED]

Sure it is pretty distasteful, that is if you don’t understand the context of that hadith. Did you pick that up from some anti-Islam sites??

Hi there.
You seem to have forgotten to reply to my question on this...

OK. What is the "context" that makes acceptable those hadith about the rocks and trees encouraging Muslims to kill Jews?

Given that it is so distastefully anti-semitic as to almost certainly qualify as illegal hate-speech if someone said it as part of a political broadcast, etc, I am genuinely interested in your response.

 

[JerryMyers]

OK. What is the "context" that makes acceptable those hadith about the rocks and trees encouraging Muslims to kill Jews?

Sorry about the late response – you are right - I have totally forgotten that I have some postings in this thread!

The hadith is referring to a battle that will occur at end of time when Dajjal the anti-Christ, emerges and the Messiah descends to fight him. The Jews who never accepted Jesus as the Messiah will join Dajjal the anti-Christ while the Muslims will fight alongside the Messiah against the anti-Christ and his followers. And it’s in this context that the hadith was based, “The Hour will not begin until the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them until a Jew hides behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will say: O Muslim, O slave of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him..”. The Jews in this hadith are referring to those Jews who joined Dajjal the anti-Christ at end of time.

This accusation always makes me laugh.
Why on earth would you think that a hadith or Quran verse originated on some "hate site"? They come from the sunnah and the Quran, obvs. Do you really think an anti-semitic call to murder can be excused by shooting the messenger?

This response always makes me laugh.

It’s NOT the hadiths or passages from Quran as quoted by non-Muslims that originated from some “hate site”, it’s the negative interpretations and comments of those hadiths and passages by the non-Muslims that, more often than not, originated from “hate sites”.

Well, it clearly isn't "very similar" in content or context, but yes, I agree that the Bible can be just as violently intolerant as the Quran and sunnah.

Sure, if you don’t understand the context or the circumstances of the time. For example, Americans expressing their outrage towards the Japanese in 1941 may seem unacceptable to the uninformed, that is until one realized that the Japanese had just attacked Pearl Harbor and that makes their outrage and calling out for the Japanese blood understandable.

 

[JerryMyers]

Quite simple.
1. There is no evidence for the supernatural.
2. There is no need for the supernatural.
While I cannot be certain that there isn't some kind of supernatural force at work in the universe, everything we know makes it highly unlikely.
However, due to the nature of the claims made by some religions, I am certain their specific gods do not exist.
Now it's your turn.
1. What are your reasons for believing in gods?
2. What are your reasons for believing that it is the particular god you happen to worship (probably by the accident of birth)?

I don’t believe in gods, I believe in One Universal God. It’s the different understandings of who this one God is that led to different beliefs and religions.

And who says that there must be any evidence of supernatural for one to believe in the existence of God??

You only need a logical and rational mind to know the existence of God. Even Science begins to realize that there must be a Supreme Creator/God.

Unfortunately, you just refused to open your eyes and use your brain which God gave you – that’s sad.