Islam is a false religion per Quran itself.

[stanberger]

What did I get wrong? Specifically.

1. Tent pegs ARE foreign material such as wood or metal. That's just a simple fact.

2. Mountains ARE previously flat layers that have been thrusted up by plate tectonics. That's just a simple fact. That means if you follow the layers back to there origins, they do indeed "go down into the surface". That was MY point.

3. (Bonus point). Mountains are NOT "firm". It took plate movement to create them, and those plates are still moving.

lol. go read a 6th grade science book mate it will explain mountains and the role they play in keeping the earth surface stable. but then again bible followers are referred to as 'flat earthers' so I understand your confusion

 

[KWED]

don't worry about me. worry about yourself son. trinity was voted on at nicea 325ad. its foreign to Jesus who said ' greatest command is to worship our lord the one god only ' today only muslims obey Jesus greatest command

Once again I have to ask you why your every response to a question or point about Islam is some garbled reference to Christianity?

You suggested that the sahih hadith collections of people like Imam Bukhari are "Islamophobic" fabrications. No Muslim would even claim that.
So, are you actually a Muslim or just pretending to be a strange parody of one in order to portray Islam and Muslims in an unfavourable light?

 

[KWED]

lol. go read a 6th grade science book mate it will explain mountains and the role they play in keeping the earth surface stable. but then again bible followers are referred to as 'flat earthers' so I understand your confusion

Oh dear.
Take a look at these maps. The top one shows the earthquake-prone regions of the world. The bottom one shown the mountainous regions.
Spot a connection? Correct.
Mountains = Earthquakes.
Therefore Quran is wrong.

 

[stanberger]

Once again I have to ask you why your every response to a question or point about Islam is some garbled reference to Christianity?

You suggested that the sahih hadith collections of people like Imam Bukhari are "Islamophobic" fabrications. No Muslim would even claim that.
So, are you actually a Muslim or just pretending to be a strange parody of one in order to portray Islam and Muslims in an unfavourable light?

Once again I have to ask you why your every response to a question or point about Islam is some garbled reference to Christianity?

You suggested that the sahih hadith collections of people like Imam Bukhari are "Islamophobic" fabrications. No Muslim would even claim that.
So, are you actually a Muslim or just pretending to be a strange parody of one in order to portray Islam and Muslims in an unfavourable light?

today hadiths unnecessary as families teach their kids the physical rituals of islam. prayer. fasting. haj ....why your harping on man made sayings when quran ultimate authority in islam ? do you have a hidden agenda?

 

[KWED]

today hadiths unnecessary as families teach their kids the physical rituals of islam. prayer. fasting. haj ....why your harping on man made sayings when quran ultimate authority in islam ? do you have a hidden agenda?

You don't know what's in the Quran and you think the sunnah is unnecessary. You really have no idea about Islam, do you?

 

[stanberger]

You don't know what's in the Quran and you think the sunnah is unnecessary. You really have no idea about Islam, do you?

I left church for islam in 2002. the quran is recited every yr in ramadan month from start to finish. only scripture archived in this unique fashion. if you were to lock up all the scriptures [bibles hindu. buddhist. mormon. quran ]. in a vault the next day you would have a complete quran in your hands that matches the ones in the vault. only the quran would be restored. think about it

 

[KWED]

I left church for islam in 2002.

Yes, I know. You keep repeating this. And yet when I ask you what was it about the Quran that convinced you it was written by an omni-everything god rather than by 7th century Arabs, all you can do is comment about Christianity, or make claims about thoroughly disproved "scientific miracles".

So again, what convinces you now that the Quran was written by an omniscient, omnipotent, most beneficent, most just, etc etc god as his final and perfect guide for all humanity, for all places and all times - and not by some 7th century Arabs with an agenda?

the quran is recited every yr in ramadan month from start to finish. only scripture archived in this unique fashion. if you were to lock up all the scriptures [bibles hindu. buddhist. mormon. quran ]. in a vault the next day you would have a complete quran in your hands that matches the ones in the vault. only the quran would be restored. think about it

Every day, people around the world recite entire literary works from memory.
Not only that, but they also follow complex stage directions or play complex musical pieces (also from memory). Why do you claim such an everyday accomplishment is "miraculous"?
Think about it. And I mean really think about it rather than just uncritically accepting propaganda.

 

[stanberger]

Yes, I know. You keep repeating this. And yet when I ask you what was it about the Quran that convinced you it was written by an omni-everything god rather than by 7th century Arabs, all you can do is comment about Christianity, or make claims about thoroughly disproved "scientific miracles".

So again, what convinces you now that the Quran was written by an omniscient, omnipotent, most beneficent, most just, etc etc god as his final and perfect guide for all humanity, for all places and all times - and not by some 7th century Arabs with an agenda?

Every day, people around the world recite entire literary works from memory.
Not only that, but they also follow complex stage directions or play complex musical pieces (also from memory). Why do you claim such an everyday accomplishment is "miraculous"?
Think about it. And I mean really think about it rather than just uncritically accepting propaganda.

we are not talking about a song or a play but scripture said to be from god. surely you see the difference ...my main reason for leaving my dad's church in Dallas after reading quran was its mention of evolution. Big Bang of creation. universe expanding. blastocyst [a clinging/hanging thing]. that a illiterate man from desert could not possibly have known about and the reason he was chosen as final messenger

 

[KWED]

we are not talking about a song or a play but scripture said to be from god. surely you see the difference ...

Classic question begging. You are citing people memorising the Quran as somehow a sign of its divine origin - but if people can memorise even more complex works, then it is not a sign of anything special.

my main reason for leaving my dad's church in Dallas after reading quran was its mention of evolution. Big Bang of creation. universe expanding. blastocyst [a clinging/hanging thing]. that a illiterate man from desert could not possibly have known about and the reason he was chosen as final messenger

You see, this shows you have been watching propaganda videos on YouTube rather than actually reading the Quran, because it doesn't mention any of those things. Those are highly flawed, post hoc rationalisations that have been developed in recent years and spread by dishonest apologists on the internet.

This is clearly demonstrated by your refusal to cite the specific verses that mention these things, and your inability to respond to the refutations of your claims.

The whole thing has fallen into disrepute amongst reputable, honest scholars. "The scientific miracles narrative has become an intellectual embarrassment for Muslim apologists, including myself" (Hamza Tsortzis, Islamic Education and Research Academy).

You have been sold a pup.
So, was there any other reason for converting to Islam, or was it just to annoy your dad?

 

[stanberger]

Classic question begging. You are citing people memorising the Quran as somehow a sign of its divine origin - but if people can memorise even more complex works, then it is not a sign of anything special.

You see, this shows you have been watching propaganda videos on YouTube rather than actually reading the Quran, because it doesn't mention any of those things. Those are highly flawed, post hoc rationalisations that have been developed in recent years and spread by dishonest apologists on the internet.

This is clearly demonstrated by your refusal to cite the specific verses that mention these things, and your inability to respond to the refutations of your claims.

The whole thing has fallen into disrepute amongst reputable, honest scholars. "The scientific miracles narrative has become an intellectual embarrassment for Muslim apologists, including myself" (Hamza Tsortzis, Islamic Education and Research Academy).

You have been sold a pup.
So, was there any other reason for converting to Islam, or was it just to annoy your dad?

sorry mate gotta go with the doctors and scientists who verified these verses in quran. dr Keith Moore. dr Jeffrey lang. dr Gary miller. dr Lawrence brown. dr Maurice bucaille. etc. you wouldn't have a hidden agenda would you sport ? but all the same I will defer to these scientists over some random youtube poster .....for those interested start here in comparing science in scriptures. quran ' earth spherical moves in orbit. noah floods regional ' v bible ' earth a flat circle does not move noah floods worldwide due to nephilim [those pesky fallen rapist angels] ' lol. my my the xxx rated imaginations of the biblical scribes science confirms quran. scoffs at bible

 

[KWED]

sorry mate gotta go with the doctors and scientists who verified these verses in quran. dr Keith Moore. dr Jeffrey lang. dr Gary miller. dr Lawrence brown. dr Maurice bucaille.

This has already been explained to you. None of those people claim there is any scientific evidence for the Quran containing unexplained scientific knowledge, and some have since withdrawn their comments claiming they were misled or misrepresented. Som elf those you mention make no scientific claims at all and merely claim a spiritual connection
Also, if you are so insistent on accepting the statements of scientists, why do you reject so many scientists statements when they point out errors in the Quran?

etc. you wouldn't have a hidden agenda would you sport ?

lol! Obviously not. My agenda of challenging the extraordinary claims of religious apologists is hardly "hidden".

but all the same I will defer to these scientists over some random youtube poster

Ironically, it is you who is deferring to internet propaganda and ignoring established science. But then, you are a religionist. That is what you do.

.for those interested start here in comparing science in scriptures

This should be good, given that you haven't read the Quran...

quran ' earth spherical

WRONG! The only time the Quran refers to the shape of the earth is to say it was "spread out like a carpet". (Is a carpet flat or round when it is spread out? Correct. It is flat.)

moves in orbit.

WRONG! The only time the Quran mentions celestial bodies moving in an orbit is the sun and moon, "following each other" - clearly implying the sun orbiting the earth.

noah floods regional

WRONG! The Quran never says that the flood was regional. However, the descriptions (people on top of mountains being drowned and the ark coming to rest on a mountain several thousand feet hight) show the flood must have been global.

And as usual, you will not respond to these points. You will just dishonestly repeat the same disproved nonsense. Is getting back at your father really worth demeaning yourself in public like this?

 

[stanberger]

This has already been explained to you. None of those people claim there is any scientific evidence for the Quran containing unexplained scientific knowledge, and some have since withdrawn their comments claiming they were misled or misrepresented. Som elf those you mention make no scientific claims at all and merely claim a spiritual connection
Also, if you are so insistent on accepting the statements of scientists, why do you reject so many scientists statements when they point out errors in the Quran?

lol! Obviously not. My agenda of challenging the extraordinary claims of religious apologists is hardly "hidden".

Ironically, it is you who is deferring to internet propaganda and ignoring established science. But then, you are a religionist. That is what you do.

This should be good, given that you haven't read the Quran...

WRONG! The only time the Quran refers to the shape of the earth is to say it was "spread out like a carpet". (Is a carpet flat or round when it is spread out? Correct. It is flat.)

WRONG! The only time the Quran mentions celestial bodies moving in an orbit is the sun and moon, "following each other" - clearly implying the sun orbiting the earth.

WRONG! The Quran never says that the flood was regional. However, the descriptions (people on top of mountains being drowned and the ark coming to rest on a mountain several thousand feet hight) show the flood must have been global.

And as usual, you will not respond to these points. You will just dishonestly repeat the same disproved nonsense. Is getting back at your father really worth demeaning yourself in public like this?

a

This has already been explained to you. None of those people claim there is any scientific evidence for the Quran containing unexplained scientific knowledge, and some have since withdrawn their comments claiming they were misled or misrepresented. Som elf those you mention make no scientific claims at all and merely claim a spiritual connection
Also, if you are so insistent on accepting the statements of scientists, why do you reject so many scientists statements when they point out errors in the Quran?

lol! Obviously not. My agenda of challenging the extraordinary claims of religious apologists is hardly "hidden".

Ironically, it is you who is deferring to internet propaganda and ignoring established science. But then, you are a religionist. That is what you do.

This should be good, given that you haven't read the Quran...

WRONG! The only time the Quran refers to the shape of the earth is to say it was "spread out like a carpet". (Is a carpet flat or round when it is spread out? Correct. It is flat.)

WRONG! The only time the Quran mentions celestial bodies moving in an orbit is the sun and moon, "following each other" - clearly implying the sun orbiting the earth.

WRONG! The Quran never says that the flood was regional. However, the descriptions (people on top of mountains being drowned and the ark coming to rest on a mountain several thousand feet hight) show the flood must have been global.

And as usual, you will not respond to these points. You will just dishonestly repeat the same disproved nonsense. Is getting back at your father really worth demeaning yourself in public like this?

aren't islamaphobes amusing ? I put them in the same category as the antisemites. they have gone astray and wish to lead others down that dark hole they find themselves in relying on alcohol/xanax to ease their pain .... quran ' this book contains allegories/parables [ sun appeared to set in muddy pond. talking ants. etc] as well as facts [earth spherical. moves in orbit earth rotation. universe expanding. blastocyst in embryology Big Bang of creation. noah flood regional etc]. the disbelievers take the parables as facts and the facts as parables ' god hit this guys disbelief right on the head. raising my belief in him even more

 

[metis]

aren't islamaphobes amusing ?

Oh, you mean like anti-Catholic bigots?

 

[KWED]

aren't islamaphobes amusing ? I put them in the same category as the antisemites.

It's pretty sad that you have been reduced to slinging ridiculous insults rather than address serious points or answer genuine questions.
But talking of anti-semitic rhetoric, how about your prophet Muhammad saying...

"The last hour will not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him" - Sahih Muslim

Pretty distasteful, eh?

they have gone astray and wish to lead others down that dark hole they find themselves in relying on alcohol/xanax to ease their pain

You sound like you have had your own experiences with substance abuse. You have my sympathy. Apparently it can be pretty difficult.

quran ' this book contains facts [earth spherical. moves in orbit earth rotation. universe expanding. blastocyst in embryology Big Bang of creation. noah flood regional etc].

You have been shown repeatedly how the Quran does not say any of the things. You obviously know this to be true because you still haven't quoted the actual passages. You simply rely on Islamist propaganda from websites and YouTube.
And you are still unable to respond to any of my posts except with this childish and dishonest nonsense. It must be awful for you.

 

[stanberger]

Oh, you mean like anti-Catholic bigots?

so you are catholic ....I knew it ....I left church well before the documented cases of church pedophilia came out but I can tell you I would have left it earlier had I known these things earlier without a second to spare how do you look at yourself in the mirror. oy vey

 

[JerryMyers]

It's pretty sad that you have been reduced to slinging ridiculous insults rather than address serious points or answer genuine questions.
But talking of anti-semitic rhetoric, how about your prophet Muhammad saying...

"The last hour will not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him" - Sahih Muslim
Pretty distasteful, eh?

Sure it is pretty distasteful, that is if you don’t understand the context of that hadith. Did you pick that up from some anti-Islam sites??

This saying of the Prophet in that hadith is very similar to the saying of Jesus in Matthew 10:34 - “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword”. Distasteful thing to say too if you ask me, especially from someone who is known as Prince of Peace... that is if you don’t understand the context of Matthew 10:34.

BTW, you don’t believe in a God, right?? So, what are your reasons for not believing in a God?? Let’s see whether your rationale and logic make any sense.

 

[stanberger]

Sure it is pretty distasteful, that is if you don’t understand the context of that hadith. Did you pick that up from some anti-Islam sites??

This saying of the Prophet in that hadith is very similar to the saying of Jesus in Matthew 10:34 - “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword”. Distasteful thing to say too if you ask me, especially from someone who is known as Prince of Peace... that is if you don’t understand the context of Matthew 10:34.

BTW, you don’t believe in a God, right?? So, what are your reasons for not believing in a God?? Let’s see whether your rationale and logic make any sense.

common islamaphobe tactic. we were discussing bible v quran. thats apples to apples no such verse is in quran. but Jesus in bible does say ' go buy swords kill my deniers'

 

[KWED]

so you are catholic ....I knew it ....I left church well before the documented cases of church pedophilia came out but I can tell you I would have left it earlier had I known these things earlier without a second to spare how do you look at yourself in the mirror.

So you believe that the existence of a god can be determined by the behaviour of a small number of its followers. Interesting.

Presumably you therefore disbelieve in Allah because of ISIS?

 

[KWED]

Sure it is pretty distasteful, that is if you don’t understand the context of that hadith.

OK. What is the "context" that makes acceptable those hadith about the rocks and trees encouraging Muslims to kill Jews?

Did you pick that up from some anti-Islam sites??

This accusation always makes me laugh.
Why on earth would you think that a hadith or Quran verse originated on some "hate site"? They come from the sunnah and the Quran, obvs.
Do you really think an anti-semitic call to murder can be excused by shooting the messenger?

This saying of the Prophet in that hadith is very similar to the saying of Jesus in Matthew 10:34 - “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword”. Distasteful thing to say too if you ask me, especially from someone who is known as Prince of Peace... that is if you don’t understand the context of Matthew 10:34.

Well, it clearly isn't "very similar" in content or context, but yes, I agree that the Bible can be just as violently intolerant as the Quran and sunnah.

 

[KWED]

BTW, you don’t believe in a God, right?? So, what are your reasons for not believing in a God?? Let’s see whether your rationale and logic make any sense.

Quite simple.
1. There is no evidence for the supernatural.
2. There is no need for the supernatural.

While I cannot be certain that there isn't some kind of supernatural force at work in the universe, everything we know makes it highly unlikely.
However, due to the nature of the claims made by some religions, I am certain their specific gods do not exist.

Now it's your turn.
1. What are your reasons for believing in gods?
2. What are your reasons for believing that it is the particular god you happen to worship (probably by the accident of birth)?