Islam is unable to relate to the diverse contemporary cultures

[oldbadger]

No.

Yes
Bahais are instructed to obey the laws of the lands which they live in.

You still have secular governments and laws until an entire nation is Baha'i.

At which point non-Bahais will be subjected to Bahai laws.

Non-Baha'is will never be obligated to follow Baha'i laws. There are no laws that proscribe penalties of sexual relationships outside marriage other than the loose of administrative rights of voting, which applies to Baha'is only. There are no corporal nor penal penalties proscribed.

Here on RF I have read that LSAs (Local Houses of Justice by then) will have the power to fine couples who have sex outside of wedlock, and adultery will be a criminal offence, the penalties to be decided by the UHJ.

And 'no', I'm not going back to search through the threads for that. It's for you to investigate ....

As the future governments evolve the civil laws themselves will not likely change. The evolved court system will likely still apply in a court system independent of the Baha'i administrative order.

And so in a Bahai country the Bahai inheritance, laws, treasure trove laws, ALL the Bahai civil laws will remain locked up in a cupboard?

It is believed that the Baha'i principles will be the foundation of the future governments, and evolved over time, and much of what you propose is extremely hypothetical of what the future brings hundreds of years in the future.

So you're saying that the Bahai international police force, Bahai criminal laws and punishments, Bahai government, Bashai World Order........ this will never ever be put in place, even if a majority of people in a country are Bahais?


Hmmm....... I don't believe your suggestions, here, I'm afraid.

EDIT!:-
Oh alright..... I'll save you from your own search. I enquired of tghe WWW and many sites offered the same info.... I just snatched the first one for your further information about Bahai:-

Adultery and sexual intercourse between unmarried couples: Sexual intercourse between unmarried couples is punishable by a fine paid to the Local Spiritual Assembly; the penalty for adultery is left to the Universal House of Justice. Arson: The punishment for arson is either the death penalty or life imprisonment.
Bahá'í laws - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahá%27í_laws


It's going to be a very unfree world, a Bahai World, I'm afraid.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes
Bahais are instructed to obey the laws of the lands which they live in.

That is NOT what I referred to as NO,

At which point non-Bahais will be subjected to Bahai laws.

Never.

And so in a Bahai country the Bahai inheritance, laws, treasure trove laws, ALL the Bahai civil laws will remain locked up in a cupboard?

No, apply to Baha'is only.

So you're saying that the Bahai international police force, Bahai criminal laws and punishments, Bahai government, Bashai World Order........ this will never ever be put in place, even if a majority of people in a country are Bahais?

Put in place, yes, but as I said your going in to a lot of conjecture as what the Baha'i Administration will be hundreds of years in the future. One thing is absolutely specific Baha'i religious laws apply to Baha'is ONLY.

Hmmm....... I don't believe your suggestions, here, I'm afraid.

Classic hostile modus operendi.

EDIT!:-
Oh alright..... I'll save you from your own search. I enquired of tghe WWW and many sites offered the same info.... I just snatched the first one for your further information about Bahai:-

Adultery and sexual intercourse between unmarried couples: Sexual intercourse between unmarried couples is punishable by a fine paid to the Local Spiritual Assembly; the penalty for adultery is left to the Universal House of Justice. Arson: The punishment for arson is either the death penalty or life imprisonment.
Bahá'í laws - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahá%27í_laws


It's going to be a very unfree world, a Bahai World, I'm afraid.

One thing is absolutely specific Baha'i religious laws apply to Baha'is ONLY. The Baha'i Administrative order is elected, and subject being governed by consent, as in modern democracies.

 

[Shad]

That is contradictory to the history books.

Wrong as no history book claims a religious specific dress code was a benefit to all of humanity. You can not even cite what book you are talking about. More babble. You might as well say "Google it". Try again

I am not bound by philosophical concepts.

Hence why your claims have no credibility as you can not support any with evidence let alone a citation. Try again

It isn't about quantity but quality.

I have found nothing quality to speak of. Just sophistry designed to fool the gullible. So cite something that is considered "quality" in your view

 

[Shad]

snip (reply issue)

I never denied humanism evolved. I clearly pointed this out as per it's abandonment of Christianity. However this does not mean it's evolution has any ground to stand now once divorced from Christianity. Your own source supports my view

 

[Muffled]

Some say that parts of it were written suiting that time and society so that the people could understand it, but the Quran is for all people.

I'm not sure though that theft was a "cultural problem", per ce, especially if compared to other cultures of that time. We have hardly any way to argue so with the little historical facts we have to go by.

Muhammad raided a caravan because raiding caravans was an acceptable form of behavior for the desert tribesmen.

I wouldn't say that it is totally unhelpful but there are laws specific to Arabs that are not needed elsewhere.

 

[shunyadragon]

I never denied humanism evolved. I clearly pointed this out as per it's abandonment of Christianity. However this does not mean it's evolution has any ground to stand now once divorced from Christianity. Your own source supports my view

No it does not. Secular Humanism is not the same as Christian Humanism.

 

[Remté]

Muhammad raided a caravan because raiding caravans was an acceptable form of behavior for the desert tribesmen.

I wouldn't say that it is totally unhelpful but there are laws specific to Arabs that are not needed elsewhere.

What kind?

 

[oldbadger]

That is NOT what I referred to as NO,

Oh.... really? Let's have a look back....

Oldbadger:-↑
Bahais must follow the laws of the lands which they live in. In Islamic countries they follow Islamic law.

But in a Bahai World Order Bahais would make everybody follow Bahai Law.

Your reply:-
No.

That's sorted, then.

Never.
No, apply to Baha'is only.
Put in place, yes, but as I said your going in to a lot of conjecture as what the Baha'i Administration will be hundreds of years in the future. One thing is absolutely specific Baha'i religious laws apply to Baha'is ONLY.

In a Bahai World Order, Bahai Civil and Criminal Law would apply to all persons.... or maybe you think that any minority of non-Bahais could have a separate legislation? What a laugh.

One thing is absolutely specific Baha'i religious laws apply to Baha'is ONLY. The Baha'i Administrative order is elected, and subject being governed by consent, as in modern democracies.

Bahai religious laws?
That tells the readers just how clear it is that Bahai is a theocracy, I think.

But in a Bahai Majority, Bahai would rule all, yes? Or do you think that those folks who voted against governments don't have to obey elected governments?

All very strange.

Well, you've walked in to that one..... your thread title proposed ......:
Islam is unable to relate to the diverse contemporary cultures

... but it begins to look as if Bahai will not be able to relate to diverse contemporary cultures, because it seems to me that you've been telling me how Bahai in a Bahai World will exclude diverse contemporary cultures itself.

Strange.

 

[shunyadragon]

... but it begins to look as if Bahai will not be able to relate to diverse contemporary cultures, because it seems to me that you've been telling me how Bahai in a Bahai World will exclude diverse contemporary cultures itself.

I have not been telling you that.

 

[paarsurrey]

I believe that at one time Islam was a light to the world and the spiritual renewal of civilization, but no more. As time passed Islam remained cloaked in ancient tribal culture, outdated Shiria Law, failure to separate religion from the secular state, violently divided and failure to acknowledge a diverse evolving world.

It is a wrong notion,please.
Regards

 

[shunyadragon]

It is a wrong notion,please.
Regards

It is a wrong notion, please?!?!!?

All our beliefs are wrong notions of fallible human beings.

One liners do not get you the brass ring.

 

[Remté]

All our beliefs are wrong notions of fallible human beings.

How do you know? If you really thought this way you surely wouldn't have made this thread?

 

[shunyadragon]

It is a wrong notion,please?!?!!?

All our beliefs are wrong notions of fallible human beings.

One liners do not get you the brass ring.

My response is sarcasm for meaningless one liners, but of course you missed it, but nonetheless the evidence is clear the bottom line of the diversity of variable conflicting religious beliefs concerning the nature of religion and God(s), including the 'my way is the only way,' in human history is dominated by the perspective of the fallible human egocentric view of God.

My view of the problems with Islam are based on the matter of fact view of Islam in history in the relationship to other belief systems exemplified in spades by the view the the Baha'i Faith is 'evil' and does 'evil things.'

 

[shunyadragon]

I never denied humanism evolved. I clearly pointed this out as per it's abandonment of Christianity. However this does not mean it's evolution has any ground to stand now once divorced from Christianity. Your own source supports my view

Unclear and vague.

 

[paarsurrey]

Nonetheless Islam has a distinctive cultural orientation separate from the rest of the cultures of the world. The Islamic culture with language, dress, food, and a ritual life style that is required,and various forms of Shiria Law. Journey to predominant Islamic and you will find that even non-Muslims are required to comply to Shiria Law and the culture.

Yes,Islam in the golden age made contributions to civilization, including the origination of the scientific method.

"Islam in the golden age made contributions to civilization, including the origination of the scientific method."

It shows that there is nothing wrong with the religion Islam/Quran, only the people have failed/degraded.

Religion

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't think it's fair to make sweeping generalisations about a billion people.

I agree with one.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

1- It's Sharia law NOT shiria law.
2- Got to any Muslim majority country and you'll see they have their own distinct cultures alongside their religious beliefs. I live in Iran and have been to Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, and Indonesia. All I can say is that there cultures are very very different from each other, yet they have managed to keep their cultures without going against the norms of Sharia law (which is simply law based on Islamic teachings). They have their own languages yet the more religious ones also learn Arabic to understand their scripture more deeply, they have their own special dresses and life-styles. And yes when the law of the country is bases on Islamic law you must comply in the same manner that you have to comply with any law in any country regardless of what it is based on.

Your claims don't hold water when one goes to any of these countries.

Exactly.

Regards

 

[Vinayaka]

I agree with one.

Regards

Do you really? If it's about Islam, it's a sweeping generalisation? Yet what if it is about atheism? Do you still think it's an unfair sweeping generalisation if you say, 'atheists _______.'

 

[shunyadragon]

"Islam in the golden age made contributions to civilization, including the origination of the scientific method."

It shows that there is nothing wrong with the religion Islam/Quran, only the people have failed/degraded.

Religion

Failure is a fallible human quality regardless of which religion you choose or whether you choose any religion at all, but nonetheless the revealed ancient Abrahamic religions make extraordinary claims of providing exclusive guidance, morals, and ethics, and yes performance on the human stage. In fact in the western world the performance of secular humanists of the UU, has a better track record than Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Islam fails to provide the consistent guidance for the contemporary world, notwithstanding human weaknesses. The consistent guidance is simply not there to deal with others who believe differently, the role of women in society, rape, and waging war in the cause of their religion to name a few of the major issues.

 

[Remté]

Failure is a fallible human quality regardless of which religion you choose or whether you choose any religion at all, but nonetheless the revealed ancient Abrahamic religions make extraordinary claims of providing exclusive guidance, morals, and ethics, and yes performance on the human stage. In fact in the western world the performance of secular humanists of the UU, has a better track record than Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Islam fails to provide the consistent guidance for the contemporary world, notwithstanding human weaknesses. The consistent guidance is simply not there to deal with others who believe differently, the role of women in society, rape, and waging war in the cause of their religion to name a few of the major issues.

It's only you who fails to find the consistent guidance in it.