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Islam is unable to relate to the diverse contemporary cultures

paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
shunyadragon said:
I believe that at one time Islam was a light to the world and the spiritual renewal of civilization, but no more. As time passed Islam remained cloaked in ancient tribal culture, outdated Shiria Law, failure to separate religion from the secular state, violently divided and failure to acknowledge a diverse evolving world.
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Please quote from the Quran the verse/verses where "Sharia Law" has been defined.

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
shunyadragon said:
Islam is the only religion trying to actively stamp out other religions today like the Baha'i Faith.

In Saudi Arabia it is illegal to practice any other religion than Islam.
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Saudi Arabia does not represent Islam/Quran/Muhammad. Right, please?
They are just a monarchy.
Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
shunyadragon said:
Islam is the only religion trying to actively stamp out other religions today like the Baha'i Faith.

In Saudi Arabia it is illegal to practice any other religion than Islam.
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Islam is one of the fastest spreading religion in the world. It is spreading for its inner merits. Right, please?

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Firemorphic said:
Exactly. I know a heap of left-wing (politically) Muslims, I've also met right-wing ones. There is no definitive standard, even if one wants to pigeonhole billions of people. I'm center-left myself but it's hardly relevant.
There is no "Islam", from it's very foundation, it is an individualistic religion. Sadly, there are institutions and governments that (especially in recent centuries following the ottomans) have established their own national laws, using Islam as their scapegoat, but they are not representative of the individual in any such manner.
Whilst I would love to live in a Muslim-majority country myself, I can't say I'm overly impressed any of these so-called "Islamic governments" have gone or are run in regards to certain aspects of religious harmony - but they aren't representative of the Islamic religions or Islamic spirituality to begin with. Like to Baha'i's, the vague idea of "Islam" as an object is these countries whipping-boy. "you say jump, how high?"
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"Whilst I would love to live in a Muslim-majority country myself, I can't say I'm overly impressed any of these so-called "Islamic governments" have gone or are run in regards to certain aspects of religious harmony - but they aren't representative of the Islamic religions or Islamic spirituality to begin with."

This is the focal point, to me.
Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
shunyadragon said:
The thread does not address Buddhist countries in terms of State religions. Christianity, another subject, has been moderated for many years by secular humanism,and the separation of church and state, and also subject to another thread. When nations separate church and state things improve,but this is not the case in most of the Islamic world, According to the Quran Islam is the state religion, and the LAW.

No the larger the majority the more radicalized the nations are, but the topic is the nature of Islam in the contemporary world.
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"According to the Quran Islam is the state religion, and the LAW."

Please quote the verse of Quran where it is claimed.
Regards
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
"According to the Quran Islam is the state religion, and the LAW."

Please quote the verse of Quran where it is claimed.
Regards
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I go by the matter of fact Islamic world and how they interpret the Quran and relate to the contemporary world. This where the rubber meets the road of reality. In the history Islam the culture has been dominated by Theocracy or Theodecy where the Quran is the highest form of jurisprudence.

Nonetheless . . .

From: Islam and Democracy

Quran (33:36) - "It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision."

Quran (18:26) - "Allah... makes none to share in His Decision and His Rule"

Quran (45:21) - "What! Do those who seek after evil ways think that We shall hold them equal with those who believe and do righteous deeds,- that equal will be their life and their death? Ill is the judgment that they make." Unbelievers are not equal to Muslims. This is dutifully reflected in Islamic law.

Quran (5:44) - "Whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed is among the disbelievers." A government run by "true" Muslims is a theocracy. Anything less, including democracy or secularism, is a sign of apostasy. This is why terrorists feel justified in their fight for an Islamic state.

Quran (39:9) - "Are those who know equal to those who know not?"

Quran (4:141) - "...And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumphs) over the believers." This is at odds with democracy, which allows anyone to serve in a position of power over others regardless of religious belief.

Quran (63:8) - "...might (power) belongs to Allah and to His messenger and to the believers;" ie. not to anyone else.

Quran (5:49) - "So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires, but beware of them lest they seduce thee from some part of that which Allah hath revealed unto thee" Allah's Quran takes priority over the desires of the people. A democratic nation is by nature one that is not governed by Islamic law, meaning that a Muslim citizen would have divided loyalty. It's clear from this verse which side he must choose.

Quran (12:40) - "...Allah hath sent down no authority: the command is for none but Allah..." Sometimes translated as "None have the right to legislate except Allah."

Quran (4:123) - "Not your desires, nor those of the People of the Book (can prevail): whoever works evil, will be requited accordingly. Nor will he find, besides Allah, any protector or helper."

Quran (4:59) - "O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you..."Obedience is strictly limited to a government drawn from believers, not from the broader community. This verse has also been used to justify submission to autocratic rule, however oppressive it may by. As an Arab tradition put is: "tyranny is better than anarchy."

Quran (9:3) - "...Allah and his messenger are free from obligation to the unbelievers..."Muhammad used this "revelation" to dissolve a standing treaty and chase non-Muslims from their homes if they wouldn't accept Islam. This practice would be incompatible with democratic rule, in which everyone is considered equal.
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Muffled said:
I believe the law of taking care of the poor. It is something that should proceed from a loving heart. Unfortunately Arabs tend to be greedy and not so charitable so they need a law.
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I believe compassion for humanity is universal and so is unfortunately greed, and historically all peoples and cultures shared both qualities including Christianity.
 
aMirage

aMirage

Look outside, seek and observe.
shunyadragon said:
In Saudi Arabia it is illegal to practice any other religion than Islam.
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In Israel it's illegal to practice any other religion than Judaism
In China it's illegal to practice any religion, as atheism is forced
In Burma you're very lucky if you can get away with practicing anything but Buddhism
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
aMirage said:
In Israel it's illegal to practice any other religion than Judaism.
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Not true it is not illegal to practice other religions in Israel, and I have been there several times.

In China it's illegal to practice any religion, as atheism is forced
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I lived in China for nine years. Not true, it is not illegal to practice other religions in China, but recently Muslims are being persecuted. There are state only recognized religion houses of worship, and state controlled organized institutions, so it is not totally free in China. I was a Baha'i in China and had no problems.


In Burma you're very lucky if you can get away with practicing anything but Buddhism
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Yes, persecution of Muslims exists in Myanmar (Burma?)

At one time or another all ancient religions persecuted other religions, and often brutally. What is your point here?

Humanity is capable of both love and compassion, and also the dark side.
 
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