Islam or Judaism

[FearGod]

Because Muhammad had forbidden his wives to remarry after his death.

First why you think he cares about what will happen to these women after his death,
then why these women have to listen to him, at least why they follow the way he taught
them about religion, I think such women will be the first to reject Islam if they found out
that the prophet wasn't telling the truth, can't you realize what kind of person your
husband is and if he asked you not to marry after leaving then will you do if you
think he was a bad man?

 

[FearGod]

Not the middle east, that's for sure.

Not bashing the middle east, I'm just dispelling a possible assumption without too much disclosing.

But from where then?

 

[FearGod]

Didn't it also say somewhere that Muhammad would fondle Aisha

I think you have already made your decision of not accepting Islam and you're even
doing the same job of those who make a lot of propaganda against Islam,
then I'm wondering what your purpose of making such a thread?

 

[Rival]

First why you think he cares about what will happen to these women after his death,
then why these women have to listen to him, at least why they follow the way he taught
them about religion, I think such women will be the first to reject Islam if they found out
that the prophet wasn't telling the truth, can't you realize what kind of person your
husband is and if he asked you not to marry after leaving then will you do if you
think he was a bad man?

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here.

 

[FearGod]

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here.

Using logical thinking.

 

[illykitty]

Research, stay true to what you think and feel. Don't try to force yourself into something and don't rush. I'm sorry if this doesn't sound like that much help but only you will know what the answer will be. I've been there myself, and to some extent I'm still a bit searching, so this is the best I can say from experience. Nobody can tell you what to believe.

There's also often liberal groups online, people who are religious but hold values that are more progressive. It's good to be aware that's an option too but I understand some people need more of an in-person community.

I hope then you'll be able to find something for yourself that will feel fulfilling and make you happy!

 

[Rival]

Using logical thinking.

The Qur'an is the bit that prohibits the wives from remarrying. They could have well thought that Muhammad was a liar without discarding the Qur'an.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Back in the day it was common practice among British people like you. The chances are your grand grand grand......probably did the same thing.

British people like my ancestors didn't have the luxury of a Messenger from the supreme source of morality in all creation to warn them of the physical, mental & emotional harm having sex with children could do. What excuse did Muhammad or the Muslims have?

If you're referring to ancestors older than grandparents the correct convention is to use 'great'. So my grandparents' parents are my great grandparents. And my grandparents' grandparents are my great great grandparents and so on.

We Britons don't hold our ancestors up as moral exemplars for all of humankind to emulate unlike Muslims with Muhammad. Oh and you don't get to excuse Muhammad's immorality by comparing him with the immoral heathen. Doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. You've put Muhammad up on a pedestal so stop trying to use the actions of everyone who, according to Islam, is morally beneath him to justify his failings.

Who is actually emulating him marrying to 13 year girls? What are the chances of that? The chances are next to 0.

You're kind of missing the point here but before I correct you I'll address this question. This guy, this guy, multiple people in Iran, multiple people in Pakistan & Saudi Arabia. I could go on but I think the point has been made. These are merely the newsworthy items but they're not exactly isolated cases either; they're also national legal systems determining the matter according to Islamic law.

And the point I was making was that if you're going to throw accusations of sexual misconduct like 'sodomy' around, you'd better make sure your own religious tradition is squeaky clean; especially when your faith's most revered figure had sex with a child.

 

[FearGod]

The Qur'an is the bit that prohibits the wives from remarrying. They could have well thought that Muhammad was a liar without discarding the Qur'an.

How they believed the quran if they thought that the prophet was a liar or a bad man?
Do you think this is a logical thinking?

 

[Rival]

How they believed the quran if they thought that the prophet was a liar or a bad man?
Do you think this is a logical thinking?

Look, we are derailing this girl's thread and as usual we will agree on nothing. I'm not gonna argue anymore. We've done this enough.

 

[SearchingForGod]

I think you have already made your decision of not accepting Islam and you're even
doing the same job of those who make a lot of propaganda against Islam,
then I'm wondering what your purpose of making such a thread?

I'm actually not trying to spread bad propaganda. I'm only writing about things I have read. The want to return is still there (although I'm starting to remember why I left) but if people are going to make points that aren't factual or that I've read to the contrary, I feel a need to correct.

 

[FearGod]

I'm actually not trying to spread bad propaganda. I'm only writing about things I have read. The want to return is still there (although I'm starting to remember why I left) but if people are going to make points that aren't factual or that I've read to the contrary, I feel a need to correct.

No one will help you than yourself, you have a good knowledge and if you have
realized that Islam isn't for you then no one on earth will change your mind except
if God wanted to guide you otherwise.

That being said, my opinion that Islam isn't for you and you have to find out what problem
you have with Judaism and you can have a lot of information by creating threads in
the Judaism dir since you have some interest on it and I guess they'll help you a lot.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

How do you know that he did

Islamic orthodoxy accepts that Aisha was below what civilised peoples now consider the age of majority i.e 16-21. Sahih al-Bukhari states Aisha was 6 years old when Muhammad married her and she was 9 years old when the marriage was consummated.

But I'll just sit back & watch as you dismiss a sahih hadith as untrustworthy once again like you do every time you're losing an argument.

and why Aisha didn't marry after him but instead
she spent all her remaining years on teaching Islam.

I'm not sure. It could have been out of genuine love. It could have been because Sunni historians have revised history to make Aisha seem more religious than she was. I'll admit I don't know.

 

[FearGod]

Islamic orthodoxy accepts that Aisha was below what civilised peoples now consider the age of majority i.e 16-21. Sahih al-Bukhari states Aisha was 6 years old when Muhammad married her and she was 9 years old when the marriage was consummated.

But I'll just sit back & watch as you dismiss a sahih hadith as untrustworthy once again like you do every time you're losing an argument.

Why you believe one story and not the others? do you believe the stories which say
that the prophet were able to feed a huge number of people with a quantity of food
that is enough for one.The Miracles Concerning the Increase in Food and Drink | Questions on Islam

I'm not sure. It could have been out of genuine love. It could have been because Sunni historians have revised history to make Aisha seem more religious than she was. I'll admit I don't know.

And some other historians could make Aisha be 5 years old.

 

[Rival]

Why you believe one story and not the others? do you believe the stories which say
that the prophet were able to feed a huge number of people with a quantity of food
that is enough for one.The Miracles Concerning the Increase in Food and Drink | Questions on Islam

This is blatantly taken from the miracles in the New Testament, like the fish and the loaves and the wedding at Cana. So even I don't believe them.

 

[MD]

I'm not a Muslim nor a Jew, I'm a Zoroastrian in fact. Magian as mentioned in the Quran (Majoos as mentioned by the fighters waging global jihad ) I'll spare you the details of my life and my biases and simply tell you what I would do.

Look at the unique qualities of the Yahweh described by the Jews and the qualities of Allah described by the Muslims.

I know the Christian God is different from the Judaic God as the Christian God is supposed to be omnibenevolent. So I will assume Allah is unique in his own way from Yahweh, and you have to find in which way. You have to also consider the paradoxes that arise such as the Problem of Evil and the problem of reconciling predestination with free will.

Once you have learned enough on with what Jewish and Muslim scholars seem to say about these paradoxes and once you are comfortable with which sort of God better suits your soul, you'll know the answer. You'll be surprised at how much your own inner voice can guide you towards things and you don't need to ask others for guidance as much as you think you do.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Why you believe one story and not the others? do you believe the stories which say
that the prophet were able to feed a huge number of people with a quantity of food
that is enough for one.The Miracles Concerning the Increase in Food and Drink | Questions on Islam

Because one story is grounded in contemporary social reality and the other is not. Remember, Muslims often try to excuse Muhammad's marriage to & engaging in sex with a child as not being immoral because it was normal for human societies at the time. They're right that it was normal for the time but not that this normalcy makes Muhammad's marriage to Asiha moral.

The story of Muhammad feeding a large crowd with normally insufficient amounts of food & drink sounds like a rather obvious plagiarism of the parable of Jesus feeding the five thousand - and I don't believe that really happened either.

And some other historians could make Aisha be 5 years old.

I suppose they could - either way it puts Aisha at being a young child when she was married off and when Muhammad consummated the marriage.

 

[FearGod]

This is blatantly taken from the miracles in the New Testament, like the fish and the loaves and the wedding at Cana. So even I don't believe them.

And these stories are in the hadith, why to believe and think that one story to be real
while the other is made up? it's cherry picking at best.

 

[FearGod]

Because one story is grounded in contemporary social reality and the other is not. Remember, Muslims often try to excuse Muhammad's marriage to & engaging in sex with a child as not being immoral because it was normal for human societies at the time. They're right that it was normal for the time but not that this normalcy makes Muhammad's marriage to Asiha moral.

The story of Muhammad feeding a large crowd with normally insufficient amounts of food & drink sounds like a rather obvious plagiarism of the parable of Jesus feeding the five thousand - and I don't believe that really happened either.


I suppose they could - either way it puts Aisha at being a young child when she was married off and when Muhammad consummated the marriage.

The quran doesn't inform us to marry underage girls, so I have to believe the holy book
and not the stories.

 

[Rival]

And these stories are in the hadith, why to believe and think that one story to be real
while the other is made up? it's cherry picking at best.

This what you Muslims do with the ahadith all the time.

So you agree that A'isha was 9 when Muhammad had sex with her and that he had poets killed for mocking him?

If you don't agree then you are cherry picking ahadith to suit your social context of 21st century life.