Islam or Judaism

[FearGod]

What people believe and what the Torah says are two different things, aren't they?

What Muslims believe and what the quran says are two different things,
What Christians believe and what the bible says are two different things.

 

[Kenny]

What Muslims believe and what the quran says are two different things,
What Christians believe and what the bible says are two different things.

True... but what the Quran says is violent... hopefully what they do is different

 

[ADigitalArtist]

True... but what the Quran says is violent... hopefully what they do is different

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." - Luke 19:27
The bible has plenty of violent passages in it, too. How violent Chrisitans decide to become varies.

 

[Kenny]

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." - Luke 19:27
The bible has plenty of violent passages in it, too. How violent Chrisitans decide to become varies.

One would assume that after that passage Jesus applied it by slewing a bunch of people to show it application. Or was it mercy and love that he showed?

However, we find the application of the Quran as shown by Mohammad.

Or, as some would say... "don't tell me your faith, show it".

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes... if you want to stretch that passage and omit what was before and after.

One would assume that after that Jesus applied it by slewing a bunch of people. Or was it mercy and love that he showed?

However, we find the application of the Quran as shown by Mohammad.

Or, as some would say... "don't tell me your faith, show it".

And plenty of Muslims will tell you that context before and after quote mined phrases of the Koran is just as important as it is here. And the vast majority of Muslims world wide are peaceful. So maybe don't try and tell them what the Koran should mean to them, just like you don't like atheists telling you what the bible should mean to you.

 

[Rival]

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." - Luke 19:27
The bible has plenty of violent passages in it, too. How violent Chrisitans decide to become varies.

I'm not a Christian but I believe that this is part of a parable.

 

[Kenny]

And plenty of Muslims will tell you that context before and after quote mined phrases of the Koran is just as important as it is here. And the vast majority of Muslims world wide are peaceful. So maybe don't try and tell them what the Koran should mean to them, just like you don't like atheists telling you what the bible should mean to you.

I don't think that addressed its application by lifestyle. Did Jesus go about killing people? Did Mohammad? I think that the lifestyle gives body to what was written.

And I don't recall telling any Muslim what the Quran should mean to them.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm not a Christian but I believe that this is part of a parable.

Oh it is, part of the noble man and the minas which are delegated to servants. Though my overall point is that violent passages of the Koran are also surrounded by parable, symbology, or conditions for which it applies which are rarely quoted in full. Even if I don't agree with all their implications as I see them, it would be dishonest of me to say that my interpretation represents the Muslim interpretation, or the 'real truth' of the Koran. Same with the bible.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I don't think that addressed its application by lifestyle. Did Jesus go about killing people? Did Mohammad? I think that the lifestyle gives body to what was written.

And I don't recall telling any Muslim what the Quran should mean to them.

Jesus wasn't a leader of a nation, he was a commoner building a new religion under another rule with no war conditions. You could more compare Mohammed to King David (who definitely did kill people). However, Jesus also promised a global war where everyone who doesn't bend the knee to him will be destroyed, and, according to some interpretations, be tortured in eternal suffering. Anyone who thinks Jesus is ultimately more peaceful than Mohammed perhaps needs to re-read Revelations.

 

[Kenny]

Jesus wasn't a leader of a nation, he was a commoner building a new religion under another rule with no war conditions. You could more compare Mohammed to King David (who definitely did kill people). However, Jesus also promised a global war where everyone who doesn't bend the knee to him will be destroyed, and, according to some interpretations, be tortured in eternal suffering. Anyone who thinks Jesus is ultimately more peaceful than Mohammed perhaps needs to re-read Revelations.

If that is your view... it is in your right to view it that way.

I still view things through the lifestyle of while they walked on this earth. It gives the life and body of what is read. Jesus didn't go around killing people and Mohammad did. Jesus didn't force anyone to believe, Mohammad did. I noticed you bypassed that point.

 

[sovietchild]

Last time I checked Mexico wasn't in South America.

Latin America.

 

[FearGod]

If that is your view... it is in your right to view it that way.

I still view things through the lifestyle of while they walked on this earth. It gives the life and body of what is read. Jesus didn't go around killing people and Mohammad did. Jesus didn't force anyone to believe, Mohammad did. I noticed you bypassed that point.

I think you need to relax.

 

[arthra]

This is my problem. I joined this forum first saying that I wished to join either Christianity or Judaism. After doing much thought, I've decided that Christianity probably is not for me, but now my birth religion, Islam, has come into the picture to argue its case. Judaism and Islam are very much alike. Both believe in one god with no human incarnations, both have modesty and dietary laws, and both allow for divorce and the like. Why, then, am I fighting with myself over which one I ought to follow?

In a sense I resolved the issue of "which one to follow" by becoming a Baha'i. So I at least nominally accept Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah... that's how it worked for me.. by recognizing that the major world religions had a common Divine Source and that the Prophets and Messengers over time revealed laws and institutions suited to Their times and according to the capacity of humans to accept the various laws in the context of each Revelation.

 

[Pastek]

If that is your view... it is in your right to view it that way.

I still view things through the lifestyle of while they walked on this earth. It gives the life and body of what is read. Jesus didn't go around killing people and Mohammad did. Jesus didn't force anyone to believe, Mohammad did. I noticed you bypassed that point.

So what the purpose of "Revelation" ?
Is that for you only parables ?

1.1The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.

I noticed that some christians tend to be amnesiac about the OT and Revelation.

 

[Kenny]

So what the purpose of "Revelation" ?
Is that for you only parables ?

1.1The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.

I noticed that some christians tend to be amnesiac about the OT and Revelation.

I haven't forgotten at all. We are in a period of grace where God is wooing mankind to be made one with Him. This is the time where the peace than mankind yearns for can be received. This is the epoch where the goodness of God, along with His mercy, is shown to all. This is the time where Jesus, as an analogy, is still walking this earth "doing good and healing all who are oppressed of the devil for God is wth him" Acts 10:38. He is raining goodness and mercy to the just and the unjust, the famous and the faceless.

The evil we see right now is all man created.

 

[Tumah]

Both believe in one god with no human incarnations, both have modesty and dietary laws, and both allow for divorce and the like. Why, then, am I fighting with myself over which one I ought to follow?

Judaism, in all of its beliefs, are what I like. I love how you don't have to be a Jew to get to Heaven. I love how the concept of reincarnation and no Hell exist. And I love how being gay is okay in Judaism, as well as all the other liberal stances on contemporary issues.

I have to ask you what it is you read that informed you about the Jewish stance on monotheism, modesty, dietary laws and divorce but misinformed you anout the Jewish view on hell and homosexuality.

Also if you understand that you don't need to be Jewish to be righteous in Judaism, why not just stay as you are?

 

[Rival]

I have to ask you what it is you read that informed you about the Jewish stance on monotheism, modesty, dietary laws and divorce but misinformed you anout the Jewish view on hell and homosexuality.

Also if you understand that you don't need to be Jewish to be righteous in Judaism, why not just stay as you are?

I believe this member has expressed an interest specifically in Reform Judaism. Not sure if that would make a difference.

 

[Tarheeler]

...And I love how being gay is okay in Judaism, as well as all the other liberal stances on contemporary issues. These beliefs made me feel as though Judaism was perfect for me at first... but I met with a rabbi to start studying and now my Islamic side feels very very sad about this.

Keep in mind that while this is true on the liberal side, it is not held universally. Many Jews are quite conservative on political and social issues.


All in all, I wish you luck. I went through a similar situation when I realized that the Christianity I was born into didn't make sense to me anymore, and it didn't describe the God I knew.
It took several years of studying and personal contemplation before I could make the decision to leave it behind and adopt Judaism as my path in life. And then came the formal conversion process.

Take your time, and remember that this is something that no one else can decide for you; its a decision that only you can make and you need to be comfortable with it.

 

[columbus]

I'm just going through a lot right now and needed a place to speak and process what's going on in this scrambled head of mine. It's painful, as I keep saying.

I can sympathize. I was born and raised Roman Catholic, in a big Catholic community. When I was your age, I had come to the realization that I just could not believe what Christians believe.

Over the course of the four decades since, I came to some other realizations. One important one was that the community is often more important than the theology. Maybe what's calling you back is the community and so you just need to find one that suits you instead of trying to make yourself believe things to fit them.

If there is a Bahai community near you I would check it out. It's rather like Islam, but reformed with "Enlightenment" values. I see Bahai as "reformed Islam" myself. It might be the best fit for you at this time.

But don't forget this. You are young and have much to learn, especially about yourself. Don't try to make yourself believe things because the people around you expect you to believe them.
Good Luck!
Tom

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

This is my problem. I joined this forum first saying that I wished to join either Christianity or Judaism. After doing much thought, I've decided that Christianity probably is not for me, but now my birth religion, Islam, has come into the picture to argue its case. Judaism and Islam are very much alike. Both believe in one god with no human incarnations, both have modesty and dietary laws, and both allow for divorce and the like. Why, then, am I fighting with myself over which one I ought to follow?

Judaism, in all of its beliefs, are what I like. I love how you don't have to be a Jew to get to Heaven. I love how the concept of reincarnation and no Hell exist. And I love how being gay is okay in Judaism, as well as all the other liberal stances on contemporary issues. These beliefs made me feel as though Judaism was perfect for me at first... but I met with a rabbi to start studying and now my Islamic side feels very very sad about this. Like, mournfully sad. I was born and raised as a muslim, with all of the culture and such, and going to Judaism makes me feel as though I'd be throwing away all of my culture and beliefs for something foreign. I've been trying to find a middle ground with this side of myself with all the comparisons I can make between Judaism and Islam, but it doesn't make a difference. It all still hurts.

I think what I miss the most is the big muslim community I was once a part of. Sure, we disagreed when it came to contemporary issues, but it was still home to me. I still had others I could relate to and could notice on the street. I could wave at the other sisters wearing hijabs and they'd wave back with a smile... but if I do that now, I just get strange looks. In essence, I'm out of the club now, and that's painful.

Judaism is cool in theory, but part of me really wants to go home to its roots. I've prayed to God a lot to help show me the way, and I think he appreciates all the effort I'm putting into my search... but I have to imagine that he just wants me to choose what makes me the happiest, and that's the toughest thing to decide.

Thank you, to anyone who has read my rant. I'm just going through a lot right now and needed a place to speak and process what's going on in this scrambled head of mine. It's painful, as I keep saying.

Do you mind answering how and why you ruled out Christianity?

And have you considered non-Abrahamic faiths or none at all?

Is zen Buddhism a religion or a secular philosophy? I think it's the latter. Taoism and Confucianism seem superficially appealing as well, but I believe that they're both godless philosophies as well.

I know many, many Jews, mostly Canadian and American, and they're almost all atheists. But they have a strong sense of community and connection with one another, and a lot of tradition and culture. If social support is what you seek rather than religion, Judaism gets my vote. You'll love the bagels with shmear. Oy gevalt.

Jews pretty much have the market cornered on humor and Nobel prizes, so there's that to recommend Jewish culture.

I hope you don't mind me bringing a little humor into this matter. It doesn't mean that I don't take you or your issues seriously.

Are you a Seinfeld fan? Whatley the dentist, a former Catholic, became a Jew, but Jerry suspected he converted just to be able to tell Jewish jokes. For a good laugh, watch Jerry, a Jew, in the confessional speaking with a priest.

[2:33]

Anyway, good luck with your journey. Seeking truth and wisdom is a lifetime pursuit. You seem like a sincere pilgrim.

Here's gift from a pretty renowned convert to Islam, a song you might identify with: