Islam or Judaism

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The quran doesn't inform us to marry underage girls, so I have to believe the holy book
and not the stories.

Does the Quran also tell you what posture to assume when praying? Does it tell you what direction to face? It seems that it doesn't and such minutiae is left to the ahadith. Do you ignore the description of prayer the ahadith give and pray in your own manner? If not then you are once again cherrypicking the usefulness of the ahadith to suit your arguments like always - and thus you are being hypocritical. If you do ignore these verses then you are praying in a way that is not accepted in Islam, and you are potentially engaging in bid'ah.

 

[FearGod]

This what you Muslims do with the ahadith all the time.

So you agree that A'isha was 9 when Muhammad had sex with her and that he had poets killed for mocking him?

If you don't agree then you are cherry picking ahadith to suit your social context of 21st century life.

I believe the quran, if the stories in the hadith match what in the quran then I believe it,
the quran is my standard, so it's you who are cherry picking because you believe
just the stories that goes against Islam.

 

[FearGod]

Does the Quran also tell you what posture to assume when praying? Does it tell you what direction to face? It seems that it doesn't and such minutiae is left to the ahadith. Do you ignore the description of prayer the ahadith give and pray in your own manner? If not then you are once again cherrypicking the usefulness of the ahadith to suit your arguments like always - and thus you are being hypocritical. If you do ignore these verses then you are praying in a way that is not accepted in Islam, and you are potentially engaging in bid'ah.

I don't believe that I have to approach God by a fixed posture, I approach God all the times
regardless of position, so no I don't need to.

 

[Rival]

I believe the quran, if the stories in the hadith match what in the quran then I believe it,
the quran is my standard, so it's you who are cherry picking because you believe
just the stories that goes against Islam.

I believe the stories that Muslim seem to act upon and take as sahih. There is a reason why Islamic countries have marriages of young girls and other things mentioned in ahadith. The Qur'an tells one to follow Muhammad, so Muhammad's actions are written about in ahadith to be followed - how does one then figure out which are true? Both your guess and mine, FearGod, are as good as each other's.

 

[FearGod]

I believe the stories that Muslim seem to act upon and take as sahih. There is a reason why Islamic countries have marriages of young girls and other things mentioned in ahadith. The Qur'an tells one to follow Muhammad, so Muhammad's actions are written about in ahadith to be followed - how does one then figure out which are true? Both your guess and mine, FearGod, are as good as each other's.

And who told you that Muslims marry their girls at the age of 6 other than few cases in Yemen
and not even 6.

But look to the reality of child abuse in the other parts of the world where millions
of children are abused, not because of religion but due to human savagery.
Child Prostitution - Brazil

 

[Rival]

And who told you that Muslims marry their girls at the age of 6 other than few cases in Yemen
and not even 6.

But look to the reality of child abuse in the other parts of the world where millions
of children are abused, not because of religion but due to human savagery.
Child Prostitution - Brazil

Yes but they are not doing that in Brazil because their Scripture tells them to.

There are many cases of child marriages in Islamic countries; as @A Greased Scotsman noted, they even have laws to deal with such things. KSA, Somalia, South Sudan and Yemen haven't even a minimum age for marriage at all. And, despite being against the law, it is common in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

 

[Flankerl]

Just do what feels right to you.

If you still can't figure anything out buy some ice cream.

 

[Rival]

Just do what feels right to you.

If you still can't figure anything out buy some ice cream.

But then it's deciding on a flavour.

 

[FearGod]

Yes but they are not doing that in Brazil because their Scripture tells them to.

There are many cases of child marriages in Islamic countries; as @A Greased Scotsman noted, they even have laws to deal with such things. KSA, Somalia, South Sudan and Yemen haven't even a minimum age for marriage at all. And, despite being against the law, it is common in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And these countries are the Muslim world !!, how many underages are married in the Muslim
world, do you have a legit statistic.

 

[FearGod]

But then it's deciding on a flavour.

The white and salty should be excluded.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

And who told you that Muslims marry their girls at the age of 6 other than few cases in Yemen
and not even 6.

Oddly specific. The case of Iran is far more revealing - as the NGO Justice for Iran illustrates, child marriage and other flagrant human rights abuses are far from rare there. Early marriages (the term 'child marriage' isn't used because Iran's government kept trying to narrow down the definition to one which wouldn't cover child marriages happening within its borders) totalled 6,448 in a period dating 2006 - 2011. That works out at a child being married roughly every three and a half days (you got to take into account leap years). That's rather a lot for something that isn't Islamic. The marriageable age in Iran is 13 for girls, 15 for boys. But it is possible for children to be married off younger at the discretion of their parents and a court judge.

But look to the reality of child abuse in the other parts of the world where millions
of children are abused, not because of religion but due to human savagery.
Child Prostitution - Brazil

Yet another example of Muslim apologetics: 'non-Muslims are doing it too so that makes it okay!'

No, it doesn't. The biggest difference here is that child abuse in Brazil is illegal. It's a criminal offence. It is also illegal in pretty much every civilised country. Child abuse is not protected by law in Brazil as it is in multiple Muslim countries. It's not something enforced by religious scholars, it's not something enforced by tradition or by the example of someone who, if he existed, is bone dust now.

Stop trying to justify Muslim atrocities by pointing to non-Muslim ones. That has never been a good argument and it won't be so long as Muslims continue to claim access to superior moral authority.

 

[sovietchild]

Oddly specific. The case of Iran is far more revealing - as the NGO Justice for Iran illustrates, child marriage and other flagrant human rights abuses are far from rare there. Early marriages (the term 'child marriage' isn't used because Iran's government kept trying to narrow down the definition to one which wouldn't cover child marriages happening within its borders) totalled 6,448 in a period dating 2006 - 2011. That works out at a child being married roughly every three and a half days (you got to take into account leap years). That's rather a lot for something that isn't Islamic. The marriageable age in Iran is 13 for girls, 15 for boys. But it is possible for children to be married off younger at the discretion of their parents and a court judge.



Yet another example of Muslim apologetics: 'non-Muslims are doing it too so that makes it okay!'

No, it doesn't. The biggest difference here is that child abuse in Brazil is illegal. It's a criminal offence. It is also illegal in pretty much every civilised country. Child abuse is not protected by law in Brazil as it is in multiple Muslim countries. It's not something enforced by religious scholars, it's not something enforced by tradition or by the example of someone who, if he existed, is bone dust now.

Stop trying to justify Muslim atrocities by pointing to non-Muslim ones. That has never been a good argument and it won't be so long as Muslims continue to claim access to superior moral authority.

Talking about South America and criminality. What do you know about child prostitution in Mexico?

 

[Flankerl]

Last time I checked Mexico wasn't in South America.

 

[Jedster]

Last time I checked Mexico wasn't in South America.

But it is south of the United States.

 

[Flankerl]

But it is south of the United States.

Australia confirmed to be in South America.

 

[FearGod]

Oddly specific. The case of Iran is far more revealing - as the NGO Justice for Iran illustrates, child marriage and other flagrant human rights abuses are far from rare there. Early marriages (the term 'child marriage' isn't used because Iran's government kept trying to narrow down the definition to one which wouldn't cover child marriages happening within its borders) totalled 6,448 in a period dating 2006 - 2011. That works out at a child being married roughly every three and a half days (you got to take into account leap years). That's rather a lot for something that isn't Islamic. The marriageable age in Iran is 13 for girls, 15 for boys. But it is possible for children to be married off younger at the discretion of their parents and a court judge.

What are your references for this crap?

Yet another example of Muslim apologetics: 'non-Muslims are doing it too so that makes it okay!'

No, it doesn't. The biggest difference here is that child abuse in Brazil is illegal. It's a criminal offence. It is also illegal in pretty much every civilised country. Child abuse is not protected by law in Brazil as it is in multiple Muslim countries. It's not something enforced by religious scholars, it's not something enforced by tradition or by the example of someone who, if he existed, is bone dust now.

Stop trying to justify Muslim atrocities by pointing to non-Muslim ones. That has never been a good argument and it won't be so long as Muslims continue to claim access to superior moral authority.

Regardless of legal or illegal, it shows how bad are people in the other parts of the world,
do you think that people should become good because of the laws and then I wonder
that you have issues with religion and the freedom to behave.

 

[Kenny]

This is my problem. I joined this forum first saying that I wished to join either Christianity or Judaism. After doing much thought, I've decided that Christianity probably is not for me, but now my birth religion, Islam, has come into the picture to argue its case. Judaism and Islam are very much alike. Both believe in one god with no human incarnations, both have modesty and dietary laws, and both allow for divorce and the like. Why, then, am I fighting with myself over which one I ought to follow?

Judaism, in all of its beliefs, are what I like. I love how you don't have to be a Jew to get to Heaven. I love how the concept of reincarnation and no Hell exist. And I love how being gay is okay in Judaism, as well as all the other liberal stances on contemporary issues. These beliefs made me feel as though Judaism was perfect for me at first... but I met with a rabbi to start studying and now my Islamic side feels very very sad about this. Like, mournfully sad. I was born and raised as a muslim, with all of the culture and such, and going to Judaism makes me feel as though I'd be throwing away all of my culture and beliefs for something foreign. I've been trying to find a middle ground with this side of myself with all the comparisons I can make between Judaism and Islam, but it doesn't make a difference. It all still hurts.

I think what I miss the most is the big muslim community I was once a part of. Sure, we disagreed when it came to contemporary issues, but it was still home to me. I still had others I could relate to and could notice on the street. I could wave at the other sisters wearing hijabs and they'd wave back with a smile... but if I do that now, I just get strange looks. In essence, I'm out of the club now, and that's painful.

Judaism is cool in theory, but part of me really wants to go home to its roots. I've prayed to God a lot to help show me the way, and I think he appreciates all the effort I'm putting into my search... but I have to imagine that he just wants me to choose what makes me the happiest, and that's the toughest thing to decide.

Thank you, to anyone who has read my rant. I'm just going through a lot right now and needed a place to speak and process what's going on in this scrambled head of mine. It's painful, as I keep saying.

I'm a Christian but if your position is between Judaism and Islam, I would go with Judaism hands down.

Judaism has more love based principles IMO

 

[FearGod]

I'm a Christian but if your position is between Judaism and Islam, I would go with Judaism hands down.

Judaism has more love based principles IMO

And moreover they believe that Jesus was a son of a whore, so lovely indeed.

 

[Flankerl]

 

[Kenny]

And moreover they believe that Jesus was a son of a whore, so lovely indeed.

What people believe and what the Torah says are two different things, aren't they?