Islam vs western values

[Pro Gamer]

Except, historically speaking it has changed a.d has not had a uniform or universal approach over the years.
In 1,000 organized religion, which includes Islam, will probably be gone. Afterall, it took a violent revolution to change Iran from what it was just a few decades ago into the extremely repressive state it is today.
And there's also the reality how Western colonization influenced Islam into something that doesn't match what the Ottoman's practiced. And it's a tragedy that many Muslims, especially those of Muslim countries, have turned their noses to education like the Muslims of the past simply did not.

Then those views deserve to go extinct. Slavery is terrible, and anyone who says it's good cannot rightfully call themselves a good person.
Amd fortunately most of the world has abolished it.

if a religion has not even changed in slightest in 1450 years then how can it go extinct in 1000 years? western have changed country laws of middle east but not islam. islamic views won't go extinct but you and your western understanding of "good" would go extinct soon

 

[danieldemol]

it's not blindly following any forefather. we don't care about forefathers. we follow the same quran that people in 7th century followed

The contradiction in what you are saying appears to be lost on you in my opinion.

 

[danieldemol]

you can't determine good or evil based on the consequences because then you will have to determine whether the consequence is good or evil which is literally going circular

One can determine whether the consequence is *demonstrably* harmful without going circular in my opinion.

 

[1213]

...Islamic values will remain in next thousand years as well because Islam never changes

What are Islamic values?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

if a religion has not even changed in slightest in 1450 years then how can it go extinct in 1000 years?

It has changed. What the Ottomans practiced and believed, they'd call many modern Muslims heretics, just as modern Muslims in places like Afghanistan or Tunesia would consider the old Caliphate heretical.

western have changed country laws of middle east but not islam. islamic views won't go extinct but you and your western understanding of "good" would go extinct soon

No, our vision of good is here to stay for the long run. After all, ancient Greece laid the bedrock foundations of Western society, making it significantly older than Islam. It's rare for cultures to regress amd slidebackwards in such ways, and when it happens it's usually because they're forced to.

western have changed country laws of middle east but not islam. islamic views won't go extinct but you and your western understanding of "good" would go extinct soon

No. It changed Islam. Such as, in times past male homosexuality wasn't so frowned upon. Afterall, Mehmed II/the Conquerer was probably bi, if not gay, and was known for having very close relationships with some men (he seemed especially fond of the brotherof Vald Dracul III, Radu the Handsome).

 

[Valjean]

what facts? murders are facts as well but accepting them as moral is what i am talking about here. islamic beliefs and shariah were the same in the golden age as it is now. show me what islamic values changed. you can't determine good or evil based on the consequences because then you will have to determine whether the consequence is good or evil which is literally going circular

Did Allah create the murderers, or was it personal choice?

Some men are born with the neural architecture, pathways, and gating of a female, and vice versa. This can be visualized on various types of X-rays and brain scans.They did not choose their wiring or anatomy. God made them that way.
So why did God make individuals He would condemn?

Islam and Islamic values do change. Compare pre and post Al Ghazali; pre and post Abdul Wahab. Compare Kabul or Bhagdad in the '70s and today. Very different.

As for good and evil, most people today would find the values and actions of many of the ancients extremely unjust and cruel.

 

[Mock Turtle]

There were many cultural values and systems in past that were lost in time but Islam always stood. all the western morality you are claiming right now might be seen as immoral in future because cultural values change over time and western values will fade away as well but Islam will always stand. in next hundred years you might not see western liberalism or feminism or whatever but i can gurantee you that Islamic values will remain in next thousand years as well because Islam never changes

Well, to start with - Islam had a beginning, like so many other religions, so never 'always stood'. Many religions are older than Islam, and it has diverged perhaps as much as so many other religions - Sunni and Shia being notable splits (and still causing friction), and such occurring right at the beginning of its own forming.

How Muslims behave is not uniform across cultures and countries either, given that dress codes are optional for many Muslims living in the more progressive nations but where we have countries like Iran or even Afghanistan where the strictest dress codes are imposed on the female population - and varying implementation of such dress codes in between. We also have many Muslims apparently living in countries where homosexuality and other such are accepted and tolerated but where in other (predominantly authoritarian religious) countries such is illegal or where many could face criminal charges - even as to the death penalty.

So Islam is not some uniform and exceptional religion as you would like to depict it to be - and this is not even going into the history of Islam being just as violent and involved in wars as so many other religions have been. So why would anyone who wasn't wielding an axe for Islam not see Islam as just another religious belief - even if it had as much truth or usefulness as many others might?

At 18, if this is your age, you just come across as an indoctrinated and less knowledgeable person, and perhaps one who hasn't lived amongst those enjoying considerable more freedoms, tolerance, and/or benefits than one might have in many Muslim countries. Like to answer why the movement of Muslims is more to these more free countries than in the reverse direction?

 

[RestlessSoul]

There were many cultural values and systems in past that were lost in time but Islam always stood. all the western morality you are claiming right now might be seen as immoral in future because cultural values change over time and western values will fade away as well but Islam will always stand. in next hundred years you might not see western liberalism or feminism or whatever but i can gurantee you that Islamic values will remain in next thousand years as well because Islam never changes

Everything changes. You think Islamic culture, thought and practice in Al-Andalus was identical to that of the Ottoman Calipha, or the Arabian Peninsula?

 

[sayak83]

it has never changed so why would it change in future. even western bombs and missiles coming towards middle east could not shake their iman or change their religion

It has not changed has it? You think the splitting of Islam into Shia, Sunni, Ahmadi etc is not change? Do you think the abolition of the post of the Caliph is not change? You think the abolition of slavery, accepted in the Quran and the Hadiths is not change? The contours of the religion has changed immensely from its beginnings in the tribal communities of Arabia and it will continue to do so for whatever time it continues to be a live faith tradition among the people. And how long that will be is something that no one, not even you, can know.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

i don't need to be alive to know that something that stood for 1450 years despite all the oppositons will stand another thousand or million years in future. i live my life islamically

So, living by 7th century primitive culture and morality, and proud of it I guess.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

yeah corona vaccine was made by a muslim

It was made by a medical professional.

That he was (or wasn't) a muslim has literally nothing to do with that.
The formula wasn't found in the quran.
It wasn't revealed by allah.
His muslim-ness had no impact at all on that work.

If it even was a muslim to begin with, off course.
Also: there are multiple corona vaccines made, not just one. So the bare statement alone that "the" vaccine was made by "a" muslim, already is problematic in terms of intellectual honesty.

And to end with: that invalid one-liner served only as a major dodge of the point that was actually made, which you didn't address.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

ask any muslim on street of the non western world and they would say that lgbtq are not acceptable and slavery is good

...and anyone that doesn't agree is not a "True Muslim (tm)" I bet?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

"red is red" that would not change over time and islam would not change over time because truth doesn't change but everything about the west will change. we have seen in history that those values don't last long

Humanism is very recent and has no history to show that it "doesn't last long".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

if a religion has not even changed in slightest in 1450 years then how can it go extinct in 1000 years? western have changed country laws of middle east but not islam. islamic views won't go extinct but you and your western understanding of "good" would go extinct soon

Why does this sound like a threat?

 

[Kenny]

christianity that augustus and many others believed is not the same as what christians are believing right now

It isn't what what people believe in any epoch. It is what the word says. Understanding words from God's Holy Spirit is a bottomless pit that has no end. I would hope that our understanding isn't the same as when they were killing people "in the name of Christ". I wouldn't want to go back to the "Crusades" thinking. So... yes, I am thankful that we don't believe the same as before and have gone back to what Jesus and the Apostles said and wrote.

I also would hope that Muslims are changing their thinking and not blowing each other up with bombs strapped to their bodies.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There were many cultural values and systems in past that were lost in time but Islam always stood. all the western morality you are claiming right now might be seen as immoral in future because cultural values change over time and western values will fade away as well but Islam will always stand. in next hundred years you might not see western liberalism or feminism or whatever but i can gurantee you that Islamic values will remain in next thousand years as well because Islam never changes

Salaam/Shalom and welcome.

May I ask your opinion of the Ismaili sect and the substantive differences between it and Sunni Islam?

 

[ChristineM]

There were many cultural values and systems in past that were lost in time but Islam always stood. all the western morality you are claiming right now might be seen as immoral in future because cultural values change over time and western values will fade away as well but Islam will always stand. in next hundred years you might not see western liberalism or feminism or whatever but i can gurantee you that Islamic values will remain in next thousand years as well because Islam never changes

Change happens, it may be fast or slow but it is impossible to guarantee.

Anyway welcome to RF. I hope you enjoy it here

 

[ppp]

"red is red" that would not change over time and islam would not change over time because truth doesn't change but everything about the west will change. we have seen in history that those values don't last long

There is nothing about saying ,"red is red" that demonstrates that Islam is good or true or worthwhile. Islam could last for the rest of the existence of the universe and that would still not demonstrate that it was good or true or worthwhile.

 

[Quintessence]

i don't need to be alive to know that something that stood for 1450 years despite all the oppositons will stand another thousand or million years in future. i live my life islamically

May your faith bring you and your peace within your lifetimes.

 

[LuisDantas]

There were many cultural values and systems in past that were lost in time but Islam always stood. all the western morality you are claiming right now might be seen as immoral in future because cultural values change over time and western values will fade away as well but Islam will always stand. in next hundred years you might not see western liberalism or feminism or whatever but i can gurantee you that Islamic values will remain in next thousand years as well because Islam never changes

Oh, let's just say that I don't think that this makes any sense whatsoever.