Islam: What the West needs to know

[RitalinO.D.]

i basically did not want this to be an Islam bashing thread thats why I pointed out that there are flaws everywhere except perhaps Buddhism which has to be closest to the truth and it can be closest to the one Universal religion.

Islam, IMO has to reform itself, it has to throw out all the meaningless passages of hate, voilence, hell etc and then it will be ok.

It most certainly was not created as a bashing Islam thread. There are others threads out there if that is what people want to do. Not what I am interested in.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Do you believe christianity is the truth then?. I can point out the same number of flaws in Christianity, Judaism or anything else. Almost all major religions of the world but with the exception of the religion of Buddha have major flaws.
To just pick and choose Islam based on a supposed superiority of another flawed religion is hypocracy.

Isn't that exactly what you did?

 

[bhasinusc]

Isn't that exactly what you did?

Well for starters, I looked at the first 15-20 min of the documentary and I culdnt stomach it further. To only keep carping on the wrongs is not right !.

that was all my point was about.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Well for starters, I looked at the first 15-20 min of the documentary and I culdnt stomach it further. To only keep carping on the wrongs is not right !.

that was all my point was about.

Considering the film was about an hour and 40 minutes long, you can hardly form an educated opinion on it. Not that I immediately consider your opinion unworthy, but watch the entire thing then come back and comment on it.

 

[C.E.O]

The hadith “A Muslim is not killed in lieu of an infidel” actually refers to a non Muslim who fights against Muslims in the battlefield

You mean in a war case, I don't think so.
And you can read to the majority of Islamic clercs to know their opinion about this.

Islam doesn't treat Muslims and non-Muslims equally, Muhammad ordered Muslims make Ahl al-kitab walk on the roadside if they meet them in a street.

Muhammad ordered Muslims not to start saluting when they meet non-Muslims.

The Qur'an said: Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, [even if they are] of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with submission, and feel themselves subdued.

 

[Vendetta]

i think one can open the Book of Quran and read it from a non-biased view and one can easily figure out following things
1. Hatred against non-believers, hypocrites, liars et al.
2. Use of violence including killing against Non-believers
3. Lying to make your ends meet (Taqqiya)
4. Active use of terms like EVIL SPIRITS or Devils (BTW this also applies to other abrahamic religions)
5. Heaven and hell nonsense and burning in hell for eternity (another nonsense)

I believe in the concept of "An Eye for an Eye makes the whole world blind". So even if another person is doing the worst wrong to you , you REACTING to that is WRONG and immoral.

Islam IMHO has plenty of things and even mentioned in the Quran which are downright immoral.

Please muslim apologists now dont start making reasons saying that - I have misinterpreted etc...because it is present there for all to see (whether in Arabic/english/tamil or any other language).

THAT HOWEVER Does not deny the FACT THAT Quran consists of plenty of TRUTHS and it consists of some of the deepest secrets about philosophy of life and God itself. There is no denying that fact. It does consist of some of the greatest spiritual truths ever discovered by man.

And there is also no denying the fact that Mohammad did experience (albeit temporarily) divine experiences which made him to start a new religion.

The problem with your post is that you mentioned one can view islam in an unbiased way but when you list some of the characteristics you perceive in the Quran its all negative! Then go on to say Buddhism is the closes thing to truth. Me thinks you are the one incapable of being of being impartial.

 

[TashaN]

He wasn't just a Muslim who converted to Christianity. He was a former member of the PLO who actively demonstrated against the West/Israel. He carried out a bomb attack in Israel. He explains how he used to view the whole situation in the film. It was quite obvious to me how he saw Islam and how people were perpetrating it. The reason I said it gave it a little less of a wester bias tinge is that the film was not just a bunch of Americans ranting about Islam. If I remember correctly, there were only 1 or 2 Americans in the film. The rest were either Muslim or European.

What do you think of what 1 ex-Muslim said about Islam. Can he be better at explaining it than a billion Muslim?

Well, it would be hard for us to discuss specific points without you actually watching the program. I really suggest you give it a look-see. I would like to discuss it with you, and anyone else that has watched it.

Believe me, I didn't start this thread in an attempt to spread some form of anti-Muslim propaganda. I sincerely was looking for some revolving dialog on it.

Ok, finally got the time to go through it. Any question?

 

[C.E.O]

yes, please.
Did Islam abolish the slavery?

 

[TashaN]

yes, please.
Did Islam abolish the slavery?

Islam is not a specific defined unchanged entity that needs to approve or disapprove certain things. Islam gives us a guideline which we need to build upon to succeed and advance in life and the afterlife as well. So, Prophet Mohammed encouraged the entire society more than 1400 years a go to free the slaves but he didn't force them, because they were not ready for it at that time. But as Muslims progress and life change and advance as a whole, Muslims had to abandon slavery totally as progressive human beings and as Muslims as well.

You can't judge Islam the way you would judge Catholicism for example, because Catholics have a Pope who can order them to do or not do certain things. In Islam it's up to us as human beings to think for ourselves and see what is better for the society as we--humanity--advance and become ready for change.

 

[C.E.O]

If a person from Taliban has a slave and wants to sell him, what is your argument from Islamic sources (Qur'an, Hadith, Fatwa) that he is not to be allowed to do such a thing.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

What do you think of what 1 ex-Muslim said about Islam. Can he be better at explaining it than a billion Muslim?

Well, the problem lies in that there is a large percentage of the Muslim population (Extremists, Fundys) that act and feel exactly as he describes. He may not totally be right in the head, but alot of what he says is true.

Ok, finally got the time to go through it. Any question?

Were there any parts that struck you as particularly inflaming, or biggoted towards Muslims in general? Let's start there.

 

[MuslimByChoice]

Hello All,

I'm new here to RF and I've been scanning through this topic and I haven't seen one post from a Muslim. (I did skip through a few pages so if I missed you, my apologies.) I haven't seen the video in question but seeing the posts being made and IMHO I fear it's another Islamophobic documentary made simply out of fear and lack of understanding.

I'm not a scholar by any means, but if there were any questions about the so called "facts" about Islam that were portrayed in the video, I will do my best, God willing, to address them. Also, please be respectful in your questions or comments. I'm not here to "disprove" or slander any ones beliefs or to propagate my own. I'm simply here to learn more about others points of view and maybe help a few better understand mine.

Again, I'm not a scholar, so if it takes me awhile to respond to any questions or comments please forgive me.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Hello All,

I'm new here to RF and I've been scanning through this topic and I haven't seen one post from a Muslim. (I did skip through a few pages so if I missed you, my apologies.) I haven't seen the video in question but seeing the posts being made and IMHO I fear it's another Islamophobic documentary made simply out of fear and lack of understanding.

I'm not a scholar by any means, but if there were any questions about the so called "facts" about Islam that were portrayed in the video, I will do my best, God willing, to address them. Also, please be respectful in your questions or comments. I'm not here to "disprove" or slander any ones beliefs or to propagate my own. I'm simply here to learn more about others points of view and maybe help a few better understand mine.

Again, I'm not a scholar, so if it takes me awhile to respond to any questions or comments please forgive me.

Actually, Bismillah, tashaN, and ssainhu are Muslim and have all participated in the thread

 

[Badran]

Ritalin, i haven't watched the video yet, but i think i've seen parts of it before. Let me ask you does it contain one part where some guy says that basically all peaceful Muslims are either misunderstanding Islam or are acting as if they were peaceful in order to fit or serve their role in the grand conspiracy?

If so, is that guy taken seriously throughout the movie? I'm asking you this basically to see whether i should watch it or not, because i'm already sure it contains lies, but the question is how many.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Ritalin, i haven't watched the video yet, but i think i've seen parts of it before. Let me ask you does it contain one part where some guy says that basically all peaceful Muslims are either misunderstanding Islam or are acting as if they were peaceful in order to fit or serve their role in the grand conspiracy?

If so, is that guy taken seriously throughout the movie? I'm asking you this basically to see whether i should watch it or not, because i'm already sure it contains lies, but the question is how many.

Its been a little over a week since watching it, and as I have the memory of a stoned goldfish, its hard to recall. But I do believe something to that affect was said in the film. Whether it was said by Walid Shoebat or the other Arab interviewee is foggy.

 

[Badran]

Its been a little over a week since watching it, and as I have the memory of a stoned goldfish, its hard to recall. But I do believe something to that affect was said in the film. Whether it was said by Walid Shoebat or the other Arab interviewee is foggy.

Thanks, i guess i'll take my chances and watch it.

 

[TashaN]

If a person from Taliban has a slave and wants to sell him, what is your argument from Islamic sources (Qur'an, Hadith, Fatwa) that he is not to be allowed to do such a thing.

Slavery doesn't exist anymore. I don't know what you are talking about. Can you clarify please?

 

[TashaN]

Well, the problem lies in that there is a large percentage of the Muslim population (Extremists, Fundys) that act and feel exactly as he describes. He may not totally be right in the head, but alot of what he says is true.

I agree. Alot of what he said might be true because the Palestinians have been the target of Israeli violence and terror, so alot of them had psychological problems and various disorders. So it's natural for many of them to feel that way. I hope one day they will smell the scent of freedom again. I hope you will not generalize what he went through to all the Muslims around the world. I think you are way more intelliegent than to do such a thing, because we have Muslims in Asia, Africa, European, etc, whom it would be insane for them to have the same mentality and same mindset.

Were there any parts that struck you as particularly inflaming, or biggoted towards Muslims in general? Let's start there.

Yeah, but i couldn't care less, because it's the same old argument which i have heard many years a go. when was this documentary made? it seems old to me because i feel i heard such arguments repeated in many documentaries which has some agendas against Islam. So? anything in particular you are interested to discuss about?

If you don't have anything in specific, i could provide you some good documentaries about Islam:

Muhammad – Legacy of a Prophet | Watch Free Documentary Online

Islamic Movies & Documentaries & Multimedia

 

[LuisDantas]

TashaN, it was made in 2006. It probably is very redundant as well. It basically claims to be saying nothing particularly new, from what I skimmed of it.

I'm a bit surprised to see Muslims say that it is lying, because it seems to have a lot of references to support its claim. It may well be partial, perhaps strongly so, however.

From what I have seen, it does not accuse Muslims so much of being liars as of being part of a doctrine that hurts their capability for respecting other faiths and other political ideals.

Basically, it seems to say that Muslims are brainwashed into believing that whenever there is any conflict of interest between the expansion of the Islamic Faith and the respect for anything else, including the safety of any people (Muslim or otherwise), they will be compelled into choosing expansion out of habit, pride and fear, without giving the matter much thought and, perhaps most significantly, without having much in the way of support for finding other, more reasonable options.

So it is not so much of what Muslim people do or seek as of how they think and what values they have.

 

[Looncall]

Hello All,

I'm new here to RF and I've been scanning through this topic and I haven't seen one post from a Muslim. (I did skip through a few pages so if I missed you, my apologies.) I haven't seen the video in question but seeing the posts being made and IMHO I fear it's another Islamophobic documentary made simply out of fear and lack of understanding.

I'm not a scholar by any means, but if there were any questions about the so called "facts" about Islam that were portrayed in the video, I will do my best, God willing, to address them. Also, please be respectful in your questions or comments. I'm not here to "disprove" or slander any ones beliefs or to propagate my own. I'm simply here to learn more about others points of view and maybe help a few better understand mine.

Again, I'm not a scholar, so if it takes me awhile to respond to any questions or comments please forgive me.

What is the "respect" thing about with muslims? Respect must be earned. Anyone who demands respect doesn't deserve it.