Islam: What the West needs to know

[RitalinO.D.]

I just finished watching this documentary on netflix, and I have to admit..it provides a rather compelling look into the inside fundamentalism of what Islam is.

If anyone reading this post has not watched it, I would recommend giving it a go, assuming you have netflix on a game console, or through the mail. It can probably be downloaded via torrent for those that do that sort of thing. (and no I am not condoning pirating, just a suggestion).

If you have seen it, I would like to hear some insight as to your thoughts about it.

It quotes several passages from the Koran and Hadith noting quite a violent undertone, while also mentioning some of the more peaceful passages originating from the earliest days of Islam.

One of the more interesting interviewee's was a man by the name of Walid Shoebat, who was a former member of the PLO, a self admitted former terrorist bomber, who converted to Christianity. I specifically enjoyed his interviews because it gave a bit more credence to the documentary, and IMO gave it less of a Western Biased film undertone.

To me, the overall message translated by the documentary is a bit alarming. I'm looking forward to hearing some dialog on this film.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Hmm..15 views and not one comment? I'm just looking for some friendly debate here. Not trying to be all controversial n stuff.

 

[*Anne*]

Is this the same documentary?

 

[RitalinO.D.]

That's it.

 

[Nisou Kitsune]

Im watching it now. Ill get back to you on it in a bit.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Hmm, this must be one of those touchy subjects no one wants to touch. Wonder why.

 

[Ilisrum]

I watched it. And it's pretty much on the money. The fact that Islam began as Arab militaristic imperialism veiled in religion is something that nobody can deny. I respect Islam as a religion, and have no problem whatsoever against its moderate adherents, but it's a shame that governments are still using an outdated system based on a 1400 year old text and extremists are justifying their actions by it. A parallel can be found in the way some Christians in the United States are justifying violence against homosexuals based on the Bible.

I think that if Muhammad were here today, he'd be ashamed at what he set in motion, and what people have done in his name and in the name of God.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

I watched it. And it's pretty much on the money. The fact that Islam began as Arab militaristic imperialism veiled in religion is something that nobody can deny. I respect Islam as a religion, and have no problem whatsoever against its moderate adherents, but it's a shame that governments are still using an outdated system based on a 1400 year old text and extremists are justifying their actions by it. A parallel can be found in the way some Christians in the United States are justifying violence against homosexuals based on the Bible.

I think that if Muhammad were here today, he'd be ashamed at what he set in motion, and what people have done in his name and in the name of God.

While I agree that the moderate Muslims deserve to be respected and left alone to practice their religion in peaceful means, the problem as I see it is, people that have claimed to be Moderate have been known to support Muslim extremism. Take the group CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations). Several of the people associated with this group, including leaders, have been prosecuted for supporting terrorism. 3 of the founders of the group have been linked to Hamas. And these are the people that are supposed to be the voice of Muslim moderation.

It's a slippery slope.

 

[JustWondering]

So the koran and hadiths condone and promote war, murder, and torture. According to Islam the fate of all non-muslims is to either convert, be subjugated by muslims, or be killed. Heard it all before. Not really surprised. It was written by a 7th century warlord after all.

 

[Meow Mix]

I'll watch it, but I doubt it has much bearing on whether Islam is a religion of peace or not. Christianity and Judaism have quite a bit of warmongering and sadism. It all comes down to the individual people believing in the religion. Look at dark ages Europe for all the disgusting things people can derive from Christianity, for instance, and compare it to the relatively peaceful derivations people have from it now (at least in some parts of the world).

Look at the peaceful and friendly Muslims we have here on RF and I'd guess all over Muslim dominated areas. Usually the violent ones are the loud ones in any religion and it doesn't say a lot about what good things people can glean from it.

That being said, I'm not a fan of most religions and doubt there's a lot of good that can come from any of them that couldn't be achieved otherwise, but I'm just pointing out that I doubt Islam is any more violent than Christianity when the whole thing is taken into context.

 

[hadzo]

^ you are correct, but good luck having either admit to it.

 

[Bismillah]

Sounds more like mad raving that Islam is a nationalistic or cultural religion. As I have posted in another thread, that is a completely false claim ignorant of its teachings.

 

[darkendless]

Sounds more like mad raving that Islam is a nationalistic or cultural religion. As I have posted in another thread, that is a completely false claim ignorant of its teachings.

Something I will say here is that all too often we hear something along the lines of "Islam doesn't teach that" or "they are not true muslims."

Perhaps there would be less ignorance if Islam made its teachings clear and stopped isloating members of its religion that publicly humiliate it?

 

[Bismillah]

Perhaps there would be less ignorance if Islam made its teachings clear and stopped isloating members of its religion that publicly humiliate it?

What are you talking about. There would be less ignorance if people thought that an internet collection and google connection made them scholars on vast subjects that scholars devote their lives to

Indeed the majority of self-assumed authorities can't even speak Arabic, the arrogance is astounding.

 

[darkendless]

What are you talking about. There would be less ignorance if people thought that an internet collection and google connection made them scholars on vast subjects that scholars devote their lives to

Indeed the majority of self-assumed authorities can't even speak Arabic, the arrogance is astounding.

No what I mean is every time something bad happens within Islam that person or that group is proclaimed to be un-Islamic. The problem is that people who don't know much about Islam will be confused to what Islam actually is and what is right.

 

[Bismillah]

The problem is that people who don't know much about Islam will be confused to what Islam actually is and what is right.

That is fair, but as some people in other threads have difficulty understanding it is different to criticize Muslims then it is to criticize Islam. If you do the second then you must do so from a theological viewpoint.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

That is fair, but as some people in other threads have difficulty understanding it is different to criticize Muslims then it is to criticize Islam. If you do the second then you must do so from a theological viewpoint.

Ok, I will throw you a bone. Explain to me, theologically, why the Koran, from the time Muhammad was in Medina, and the first Jihad began, the Koran gets excessively violent, compared to the earlier more peaceful texts.

This is a serious inquiry. No side stepping, no grey, mysterious answers. Plain english explaination.

 

[darkendless]

That is fair, but as some people in other threads have difficulty understanding it is different to criticize Muslims then it is to criticize Islam. If you do the second then you must do so from a theological viewpoint.

I think that is a critical point right there. I think that persoanlly i stumble between the two because I was unaware of the point you just made.

 

[dmgdnooc]

It is an extremely authoritative vid.
Its argument is closely, calmly and expertly tailored to fit its conclusion.
But it has only one thing to say and allows for no contradiction to its presentation.
　
I, for one, am interested in hearing the contrary view.
Is there a contrary presentation available of comparable power and artistry?
　
Seeing that the vid appears to be a product of the Rockford Institute and features the views of its print arm, Chronicles Magazine, I learnt a new word today - paleoconservative.
Paleoconservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And I am inclined to distrust the air of even-handed openness in the vid; a distrust based on the fact that paleocons have a religious agenda embeded in their political views.
　
So, I give it a 6/10.
5 for presenting half of the subject, and +1 for presenting it so well.

 

[Bismillah]

from the time Muhammad was in Medina, and the first Jihad began, the Koran gets excessively violent, compared to the earlier more peaceful texts.

Verses?