Islam: Why do Muslims think that Jesus was Islamic or Muslim?

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So According to Islamic beliefs;
1. Jesus Christ prayed bowing
2. He preached the "One God message" monotheism
amongst others but forgetting the fact that he also referred to God Creator of the universe as his father which goes against the principles of the Islamic faith.

I know some would say its figurative sense but the hundred-million-dollar question is this;
Is Allah a father to anyone in any sense?
Qur'an 5 (Surah Al-Ma'idah) verse 18

The word rab translated as lord is more closer to father then lord. Tarbiya for example refers to the raising of children.

Rahman is linked with the word raham which means kinship and refers particularly as well to a mothers womb.

So you have the word rab which mimics how the word father would in terms of raising kids.

And you have the word rahman which mimics how much compassion a mother feels for her child for all creation.

The word father in that time and place was being taken too literal or in a sense which god favors certain group over other.

The sense Jesus meant it could be a combination of rahman and rab.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

But how can Jesus be a Muslim when everything he says in the scriptures goes against the teachings of Allah in the Quran and Allah's prophet, Mohammad?

You are asking the wrong quistion. Did Jesus submitted his will to the creator since that’s the definition of the word Muslim?
Well from what I have got in reading the Bible I must say I would disagree with that. I think some of Jesus sayings are not in contradiction with Islam.

Also, since Muslim/Islam means to surrender/submit, where in the scriptures does it say that Jesus surrenders/submit to God? Or are these teachings only found in the Quran?

I think a great example im the Bible is when Jesus prayed in the garden of Gethsemane. He submitted his will to the father

 

[B-psychedelic]

The word rab translated as lord is more closer to father then lord. Tarbiya for example refers to the raising of children.

Rahman is linked with the word raham which means kinship and refers particularly as well to a mothers womb.

So you have the word rab which mimics how the word father would in terms of raising kids.

And you have the word rahman which mimics how much compassion a mother feels for her child for all creation.

The word father in that time and place was being taken too literal or in a sense which god favors certain group over other.

The sense Jesus meant it could be a combination of rahman and rab.

Bro, what kinda mental gymnastics are pulling up here? the question I asked was quite simple and clear.
let's go with your reason even, maybe figurative sense or whatnot, Is Allah, a Father in any sense at all following the Qur'an scripture I cited (Qur'an 5 (Surah Al-Ma'idah) verse 18), Yes or No?

 

[Link]

Bro, what kinda mental gymnastics are pulling up here? the question I asked was quite simple and clear.
let's go with your reason even, maybe figurative sense or whatnot, Is Allah, a Father in any sense at all following the Qur'an scripture I cited (Qur'an 5 (Surah Al-Ma'idah) verse 18), Yes or No?

I already answered.

 

[SLPCCC]

You are asking the wrong quistion. Did Jesus submitted his will to the creator since that’s the definition of the word Muslim?

I think I am asking the right questions.

First, if you can read Arabic, you will see that Islam really means surrender.

I will show you from the Quran. Quran 48:16 Mohammed tells the nomadic Arabs that if they don't surrender, they will suffer a "painful punishment.

• Say to nomadic Arabs [note, they don't want to join Islam] who stayed behind, “You will be called ˹to fight˺ against a people of great might, who you will fight unless they submit [i.e., surrender]. If you then obey, Allah will grant you a fine reward. But if you turn away as you did before, He will inflict upon you a painful punishment.”

(Note: To submit, you do something willingly, but to surrender you have to give up or suffer the consequences)

---

Also B-psychedelic brings out Quran, 5:18 which reads:

• The Jews and the Christians each say, “We are the children of Allah and His most beloved!” Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Why then does He punish you for your sins? No! You are only humans like others of His Own making. He forgives whoever He wills and punishes whoever He wills. To Allah ˹alone˺ belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and everything in between. And to Him is the final return.”

The Quran shows how the Jews and Christians say, “We are the children of Allah" but here is a kicker, the Quran gets it wrong by saying, "You are only humans like others of His Own making." The Jews and Christians never never ever said they were more than humans. The Quran shows that it is assuming that that is what the Jews and Christians are saying by calling themselves children of God, but that is not what they mean.

 

[Kathryn]

Why do Muslims think that Jesus was Islamic or Muslim? Where do they get this idea or evidence that shows this?

I haven't read the Quaran in its entirety and certainly not in its original language, but didn't Islam start in about 6o0 ad?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I think I am asking the right questions.

First, if you can read Arabic, you will see that Islam really means surrender.

I will show you from the Quran. Quran 48:16 Mohammed tells the nomadic Arabs that if they don't surrender, they will suffer a "painful punishment.

• Say to nomadic Arabs [note, they don't want to join Islam] who stayed behind, “You will be called ˹to fight˺ against a people of great might, who you will fight unless they submit [i.e., surrender]. If you then obey, Allah will grant you a fine reward. But if you turn away as you did before, He will inflict upon you a painful punishment.”

(Note: To submit, you do something willingly, but to surrender you have to give up or suffer the consequences)

---

Also B-psychedelic brings out Quran, 5:18 which reads:

• The Jews and the Christians each say, “We are the children of Allah and His most beloved!” Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Why then does He punish you for your sins? No! You are only humans like others of His Own making. He forgives whoever He wills and punishes whoever He wills. To Allah ˹alone˺ belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and everything in between. And to Him is the final return.”

The Quran shows how the Jews and Christians say, “We are the children of Allah" but here is a kicker, the Quran gets it wrong by saying, "You are only humans like others of His Own making." The Jews and Christians never never ever said they were more than humans. The Quran shows that it is assuming that that is what the Jews and Christians are saying by calling themselves children of God, but that is not what they mean.

Sorry I am confused. You initial quistion was why we Muslims refer Jesus as moslim?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I haven't read the Quaran in its entirety and certainly not in its original language, but didn't Islam start in about 6o0 ad?

The prophet Mohamed was sent in that time, that’s correct. But islam is something which started at Adam. The belief in the creator and submitting your will to the creators.
You can see it as a general definition of the true belief in god.
I gave the example of abraham. You cannot call him a Christian and neither a Jew since he became before that. But you agree with that Abraham did submitted his will to god? Then by that definition he is a Muslim.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I think I am asking the right questions.

First, if you can read Arabic, you will see that Islam really means surrender.

I will show you from the Quran. Quran 48:16 Mohammed tells the nomadic Arabs that if they don't surrender, they will suffer a "painful punishment.

• Say to nomadic Arabs [note, they don't want to join Islam] who stayed behind, “You will be called ˹to fight˺ against a people of great might, who you will fight unless they submit [i.e., surrender]. If you then obey, Allah will grant you a fine reward. But if you turn away as you did before, He will inflict upon you a painful punishment.”

(Note: To submit, you do something willingly, but to surrender you have to give up or suffer the consequences)

---

Also B-psychedelic brings out Quran, 5:18 which reads:

• The Jews and the Christians each say, “We are the children of Allah and His most beloved!” Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Why then does He punish you for your sins? No! You are only humans like others of His Own making. He forgives whoever He wills and punishes whoever He wills. To Allah ˹alone˺ belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and everything in between. And to Him is the final return.”

The Quran shows how the Jews and Christians say, “We are the children of Allah" but here is a kicker, the Quran gets it wrong by saying, "You are only humans like others of His Own making." The Jews and Christians never never ever said they were more than humans. The Quran shows that it is assuming that that is what the Jews and Christians are saying by calling themselves children of God, but that is not what they mean.

No, it doesn't mean as you explained.

The meaning is that, Christians or Jews consider themselves Special, and feel they are the chose ones of God. Specifically Christians think, they only go to heaven and they are only saved.
, since they are the ones who believe in Christ.
The verse you quoted, basically says, they are no special. They are just like other humans.

 

[SLPCCC]

I haven't read the Quaran in its entirety and certainly not in its original language, but didn't Islam start in about 6o0 ad?

Yes, Jesus lived on earth 600 years before the Islamic religion began. Was Jesus a Muslim? The short answer is no. As you can see, no hard evidence has been shown.

The evidence that is out there is that Muhammed lived in Saudi Arabia in the 7th century A.D. One day, he was meditating in a cave, and a spirit appeared to him. The spirit told Muhammed to read. But Muhammed didn’t know how to read. So, the spirit gave him some scriptures to memorize. When this first encounter was over, Muhammad thought he’d been visited by a demon, and became depressed and suicidal. Does this sound like it's connected to the scriptures? Everything Jesus says in the scriptures goes against the teachings of Allah in the Quran and Allah's prophet. So, Jesus was obviously not Islamic or Muslim. Islam and all its teachings can be proven to have started 600 years after Jesus.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Yes, Jesus lived on earth 600 years before the Islamic religion began. Was Jesus a Muslim? The short answer is no. As you can see, no hard evidence has been shown.

The evidence that is out there is that Muhammed lived in Saudi Arabia in the 7th century A.D. One day, he was meditating in a cave, and a spirit appeared to him. The spirit told Muhammed to read. But Muhammed didn’t know how to read. So, the spirit gave him some scriptures to memorize. When this first encounter was over, Muhammad thought he’d been visited by a demon, and became depressed and suicidal. Does this sound like it's connected to the scriptures? Everything Jesus says in the scriptures goes against the teachings of Allah in the Quran and Allah's prophet. So, Jesus was obviously not Islamic or Muslim. Islam and all its teachings can be proven to have started 600 years after Jesus.

Maybe you didn't read my whole message in posting 22. Did you looked if jesus submitted his will to the creator in the Bible?

 

[LuisDantas]

To the best of my understanding, it would be at least very unusual - and more likely all-out Haram and/or herectic - for a Muslim to actually believe that Islam began with Muhammad.

For starters, that would be a challenge to the text of the Qur'an. Muslims do not challenge the Qur'an. They accept it or they become apostates, with all the hardship that will come with apostasy from Islam. Muslims may have deep and difficult disagreements about what the Qur'an means to say and they may challenge Ahadith and perhaps even traditions, but they do not challenge the Qur'an.

The Qur'an says, essentially, that Islam is the latest, perfect and immutable form of a tradition that began with Abraham (or perhaps with Adam, I am not too certain here). Islam does not present itself as an alternative to Christianity and Judaism; it says outright that it is the rescuer of the message that was mishandled by those other two traditions. It does not purport to be better than Christianity or Judaism, but rather to know better and to be ready to save the misguided people of those creeds. I am not exaggerating.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Why do Muslims think that Jesus was Islamic or Muslim? Where do they get this idea or evidence that shows this?

Muslim isn’t a race.

Anyone can be Muslim just like anyone can be Christian.

The only issue I see with this is Jesus following any set practice because He really didn’t.

He came to redo them and create new ones.

 

[LuisDantas]

Muslim isn’t a race.

Anyone can be Muslim just like anyone can be Christian.

The only issue I see with this is Jesus following any set practice because He really didn’t.

He came to redo them and create new ones.

That is one possible view, but it can be countered with others.

For instance, it can be pointed out that the Jesus of the Gospels specifically quotes and refers to ideas and concepts from the Jewish scriptures.

Historically and anthropologically it took a considerable time for Christianity to develop in a way that made it clearly distinct from Judaism.

 

[SLPCCC]

Maybe you didn't read my whole message in posting 22. Did you looked if jesus submitted his will to the creator in the Bible?

Yes, I looked at Jesus submitting his will to the creator, but did you look at where he calls the creator Father?

Luke 22: 41, 42

• And He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, where He knelt down and prayed, “Father, if You are willing, take this cup from Me. Yet not My will, but Yours be done.”

Is Allah in any sense a Father to any Muslim? If you say yes, then you are going against Quran 5:18 and are sinning against it along with Jesus, the Jews, and Christians.

• The Jews and the Christians each say, “We are the children of Allah . . . No! You are only humans like others of His Own making. . .

If you say no, then Jesus is not a Muslim, and you are not following what the scriptures teach. Both Muslims and the people of the book (Jews and Christians) believe that God's/Allah's words cannot be changed. Jesus stressed this at Mt 5: 17, 18

• Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Yet the Quran condemns the Jews and Christians for accepting what God says:

• Deut 14:1 - You are sons of the LORD your God
• Ps 2:7 - I will proclaim the decree spoken to Me by the LORD: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.
• Jer 31:9 - For I am a Father to Israel,

Even demons confessed that Jesus is the Son of God in Luke 4:41

• And demons also were going out from many, crying out and saying, "You are the Son of God." And rebuking them, He did not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ.

 

[SLPCCC]

To the best of my understanding, it would be at least very unusual - and more likely all-out Haram and/or herectic - for a Muslim to actually believe that Islam began with Muhammad.

For starters, that would be a challenge to the text of the Qur'an. Muslims do not challenge the Qur'an. They accept it or they become apostates, with all the hardship that will come with apostasy from Islam. Muslims may have deep and difficult disagreements about what the Qur'an means to say and they may challenge Ahadith and perhaps even traditions, but they do not challenge the Qur'an.

The Qur'an says, essentially, that Islam is the latest, perfect and immutable form of a tradition that began with Abraham (or perhaps with Adam, I am not too certain here). Islam does not present itself as an alternative to Christianity and Judaism; it says outright that it is the rescuer of the message that was mishandled by those other two traditions. It does not purport to be better than Christianity or Judaism, but rather to know better and to be ready to save the misguided people of those creeds. I am not exaggerating.

There are more Muslims now leaving Islam than there are people converting to Islam. The only reason Islam is growing is because they marry their girls at a very young age and have a lot of babies. But many are critically thinking for themselves now and doing research since the internet, google, Facebook, etc., is now available and more easily accessible. Now, anyone can read the Koran and the bible online in their own language, do further research, and make educated conclusions.

 

[Link]

There are more Muslims now leaving Islam than there are converting to Islam.

Can you show evidence of this?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Yes, I looked at Jesus submitting his will to the creator, but did you look at where he calls the creator Father?

Luke 22: 41, 42

• And He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, where He knelt down and prayed, “Father, if You are willing, take this cup from Me. Yet not My will, but Yours be done.”

Well that’s just semantics. You agree with me that father here just means god. The creator of the heavens and earth. So if Jesus submitted his will to the creator or father or god then by the definition of Muslim Jesus is a Muslim.

Is Allah in any sense a Father to any Muslim? If you say yes, then you are going against Quran 5:18 and are sinning against it along with Jesus, the Jews, and Christians.

• The Jews and the Christians each say, “We are the children of Allah . . . No! You are only humans like others of His Own making. . .

If you say no, then Jesus is not a Muslim, and you are not following what the scriptures teach. Both Muslims and the people of the book (Jews and Christians) believe that God's/Allah's words cannot be changed. Jesus stressed this at Mt 5: 17, 18

That’s a weird way of approaching this.
it’s like you are arguing that when Jesus says father that he doesn’t mean god? Is this what you are saying?

And no in the Quran Allah has 99 names and father is not one of them. But that shouldn’t be a issue with your topic of the thread.

If you say no, then Jesus is not a Muslim, and you are not following what the scriptures teach. Both Muslims and the people of the book (Jews and Christians) believe that God's/Allah's words cannot be changed. Jesus stressed this at Mt 5: 17, 18

• Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

i already told you that Allah words cannot be changed because it is talking about his speech which is eternal. Where as the written words can be changed.

 

[LuisDantas]

I _do_ suspect that Islam grows far more due to rasing offspring into it than to any level of conversions, and probably always did.

And sure, it is only natural to leave it when given knowledge and opportunity.

 

[firedragon]

Islam: Why do Muslims think that Jesus was Islamic or Muslim?​

One thing is, because their scripture says so.
Second because, as a prophet, he would have submitted to God. So that's what Muslim means.