Doesn't sound very Christian.
Historically, it's pretty Christian. It's just not Western after the European Enlightenment.
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Islamic Justice: girl lashed for being raped; rapist pardoned
- Thread starter Autodidact
- Start date
Historically, it's pretty Christian. It's just not Western after the European Enlightenment.
.lava
Veteran Member
what do you expect to hear exactly? your title on its own is an insult to my path and my religion. maybe i should just stop expecting people to be aware of certain things. yea..right, Islamic justice punishing rape crime and this is yours, so THANK YOU!
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johnhanks
Well-Known Member
OK, I may be missing something here, but as far as I can see the girl was lashed, and the rapist was pardoned. How exactly is the title an insult to your religion?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Can you provide an example where Christians did this?
This is known in anthropology as an honor killing, which if it did ever exist in Christianity, it was exceedingly rare.
Its absence is more associated with the culture rather than the religion, which as we know, almost always supports the culture. So its absence from Christianity is an accident of history. Islam just happens to be adopted by a people who would practice it anyway due to their sense of honor.
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Atruthseeker
Active Member
I don't get it?
Can you provide an example where Christians did this?
This is known in anthropology as an honor killing, which if it did ever exist in Christianity, it was exceedingly rare.
Always look to the middle ages. Also, look to the vendettas of Mediterranean Europe.
Today it's exceedingly rare -- that's the effect of the Enlightenment, methinks.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Nope.
The Enlightenment came from Italian trade during the Crusades, with the interaction between learned Muslims and Christians. The enlightened Muslims continued honor killings from ancient times till today, even in the midst of great developments in mathematics, astrology, and the arts. Women's and homosexual rights in the Muslim world is the last frontier.
MSizer
MSizer
I'd like to make a point. I think lava has a reasonable point here, that the title insinuates something that may too generalistic. On the other hand, I've never know Autodidact to purposely bear false witness about others, so I suspect it was an oversight in the way she worded the title. Of course I'm not trying to speak for her - it's just that I think some people could rightfully be offended here, and I don't think Auto intended for it.
If I'm wrong and putting words into Auto's mouth, I apologize, and please feel free to tell me to mind my own beezwax.
That's an interesting perspective, but I think you might be confusing the Enlightenment with the Renaissance. The Renaissance came from Italian trade during the Crusades, but the Enlightenment was a Northwestern European happening, wasn't it?
Look at the title of this thread; "Islamic Justice". The first two words of the title are telling you what conclusions to come to, and where to lay the blame, before you even get into the text.
It would be the same thing if someone created a thread about the ritual exorcisms being performed by the Pentecostal churches in Nigeria that have left dozens of children dead, disfigured, or crippled, and titled it: "Typical Christian Childcare".
Do you see the problem now?
maro
muslimah
and that's why i think this thread is garbage that doesn't worth a reply ,sister
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Well, I'm not trying to argue that life wasn't cheap in Christian Europe in the Dark Ages. I'm saying that their culture was drastically different from the Near East, being more influenced by either the Romans (who didn't practice honor killings), Germanic and other peoples rather than Near Easterners.
And we know that the Catholic Church adapted to the local cultures that didn't practice honor killings, but were eventually submitted to Roman Catholic rule.
The Church is responsible for a lot of killings of women, but not like this.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Yes, I thought I was using the term the same way as you were.
I suspected that you were talking about 900-1400 (where the worst of the church's actions were) and not the 1700s.
I see what you're saying. I guess I'm more focused on the overall levels of brutality before and after the Enlightenment. But you have a good point that, so far as either you or I know, the Church did not kill women for this "crime" in this way. All I'm saying is that, given the overall level of brutality before the Enlightenment, cruel and unusual punishments were common.
johnhanks
Well-Known Member
If the word 'typical' had appeared in the title, yes, I would. Did you notice its absence?
I think the implication of the title is that this is characteristic of Islam rather than, say, characteristic of the Bangladeshi.
Did you notice the implication?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Well, brutality didn't end with the Enlightenment in the West, no matter how you define the dates.
We're still torturing people, and I would suspect, it happens just as often as in the darkest of times. (Think from our soldiers to our police to Gitmo).
My two points, and I think that they are important, is that (1) Christian cultures don't practice honor killings and I don't think that they ever have, but that is simply an accident of history and geography rather than any kind of moral or spiritual superiority.
(2) An honor killing is the killing of a female family member because (usually) she has been raped. But she also could simply have been outside the house without a viel or with a man outside the house that was not a member of the family. BUT these killings would happen no matter what the religion is because it is engrained so deeply in the culture of the people who practice it.