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Islamic Justice: girl lashed for being raped; rapist pardoned

johnhanks

johnhanks

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
I think the implication of the title is that this is characteristic of Islam rather than, say, characteristic of the Bangladeshi.
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Now I, on the other hand, took it to mean 'an example of' - 'something that can happen under this system', and which therefore needs to be addressed.
 
Mr Cheese

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Quagmire said:
Look at the title of this thread; "Islamic Justice". The first two words of the title are telling you what conclusions to come to, and where to lay the blame, before you even get into the text.

It would be the same thing if someone created a thread about the ritual exorcisms being performed by the Pentecostal churches in Nigeria that have left dozens of children dead, disfigured, or crippled, and titled it: "Typical Christian Childcare".

Do you see the problem now?
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well said....frubals!
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
angellous_evangellous said:
Well, brutality didn't end with the Enlightenment in the West, no matter how you define the dates.

We're still torturing people, and I would suspect, it happens just as often as in the darkest of times. (Think from our soldiers to our police to Gitmo).

My two points, and I think that they are important, is that (1) Christian cultures don't practice honor killings and I don't think that they ever have, but that is simply an accident of history and geography rather than any kind of moral or spiritual superiority.

(2) An honor killing is the killing of a female family member because (usually) she has been raped. But she also could simply have been outside the house without a viel or with a man outside the house that was not a member of the family. BUT these killings would happen no matter what the religion is because it is engrained so deeply in the culture of the people who practice it.
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Those are good points, Nathan. Thanks for clarifying your position.
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
johnhanks said:
Now I, on the other hand, took it to mean 'an example of' - 'something that can happen under this system', and which therefore needs to be addressed.
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I see. Without trying to flatter you, I think the reason you took it that way is because you are exceptionally fair minded. I think you took it in the spirit Autodidact meant it. She's also exceptionally fair minded. But I'm not sure that's the only way to interpret the title.
 
Quagmire

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
johnhanks said:
Now I, on the other hand, took it to mean 'an example of' - 'something that can happen under this system', and which therefore needs to be addressed.
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Ok then, is this better: "Christian Childcare: Ritual exorcisms being performed by the Pentecostal churches in Nigeria Leave dozens of children dead, disfigured, or crippled".

Again: the title begins by telling the reader what to think: what conclusions to come to, where to lay the blame. Which is completely necessary since it's a ridiculous and unfair generalization.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Sunstone said:
Those are good points, Nathan. Thanks for clarifying your position.
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You're welcome.

For what it's worth, I've read a good deal of early Christian, gnostic, and philosophical works from 900BE to 900CE, and none of them mention this. Not even in polemics - when one of these attacks another group - does a writer accuse someone else of an honor killing.

Remember Christianity at its most brutal was interested in the aquistion of land and money, and killing women just for being raped seems to go against the greed that drove the church.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
maro said:
I don't think so :no:

but tossing nonsense about Islam and muslims into the discussion is not something that amazes me ,especially from a christian _ and i am sorry to say that _
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haha

Sorry to disappoint. :biglaugh:

One doesn't need a degree specifically in Islam to be sufficiently well read on the subject. I have almost earned the highest degree that someone can earn in religion, and I am quite well read. Heck, next year people will have to pass an exam before they can even talk to me, and I can't wait for that.
 
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maro

maro

muslimah
angellous_evangellous said:
One doesn't need a degree specifically in Islam to be sufficiently well read on the subject. I have almost earned the highest degree that someone can earn in religion, and I am quite well read. Heck, next year people will have to pass an exam before they can even talk to me, and I can't wait for that.
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so ,what books have you read on the subject ?!! i might benefit from them too
 
johnhanks

johnhanks

Well-Known Member
Quagmire said:
Ok then, is this better: "Christian Childcare: Ritual exorcisms being performed by the Pentecostal churches in Nigeria Leave dozens of children dead, disfigured, or crippled".
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As a non-Christian, I would not have any emotive response beyond revulsion at the fact. I would not be left thinking 'This is typical of Christian childcare'; rather, I would be thinking 'This is the kind of thing people calling themselves Christians can end up doing'.
Quagmire said:
Again: the title begins by telling the reader what to think: what conclusions to come to, where to lay the blame. Which is completely necessary since it's a ridiculous and unfair generalization.
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Quagmire, we are not very far apart in our worldviews, I think. If the facts of the story are correct, it is a horrific injustice that, whether you like it or not, was justified by local application of Islamic law. If that is so, ought not the law at least be clarified? Is there no room for advancement here?
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
johnhanks said:
If the facts of the story are correct, it is a horrific injustice that, whether you like it or not, was justified by local application of Islamic law. If that is so, ought not the law at least be clarified? Is there no room for advancement here?
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Good question.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
maro said:
without generalizations , can't you guys feel secure about your faith without lying about ours ?!! Really ?!!
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By no means.

I'm honest about the failures of Christianity, and I hope that you would be just as honest about the failures of Islam. Both are great, and have cost many lives and many people their happiness and well-being.

Most of these failures are not rooted specifically in the religion, in my humble opinion, but in the cultures of the people who follow the religion. Christianity, for example, has been and is currently used by many Protestants in the United States to encourage all of our wars and oppressions. Formerly it was used to justify slavery, and before that to justify the killing of suspected witches. That's not because Christianity in itself is deficient, it's because most Americans are Christians, at least in name. They would go anyway, and they simply use their religion to justify their actions.

Same thing with Islam. We see it in the Taliban and in the honor killings in Muslim majority countries - with the exception of Turkey, which is Westernized, but honor killings still occasionaly happen there.
 
maro

maro

muslimah
angellous_evangellous said:
Same thing with Islam. We see it in the Taliban and in the honor killings in Muslim majority countries - with the exception of Turkey, which is Westernized, but honor killings still occasionaly happen there.
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I can assure you that such crimes are very rare simply because women are not used to practicing adultery in muslim countries ,on the first place
and when they happen ,they don't have anything to do with Islam ,but they are jealousy or rage motivated crimes,
i have never heard of a man who kills his adultereous daughter or wife because he thinks it will please God !!! but because she hurt his dignity and Honour...bla bla


And since those crimes are rare and related to certain cultures , in our time....no one can say that that ALL MUSLIMS practice honour killings since ANCIENT TIMES ,and be so certain of himself unless he's making this up..

you also pointed to women's rights ,and made another naive generalization about them based on the taliban steretype you and other westerners have been brainwashed with

I am sorry if was offensive to you ,i am usually more tolerant in discussion
 
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