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Islamic Justice: girl lashed for being raped; rapist pardoned
- Thread starter Autodidact
- Start date
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Why would I respect your religion?
I have no idea--it's not for me to speak for you. Do you think it's un-Islamic? How would I know? Apparently many Muslims think different, so how would I know your views?
It's not an isolated psycho--it's a Muslim government of a Muslim country delegating Muslim justice to a Muslim council to administer Muslim law.
And please note that I said nothing--absolutely nothing--about the case. All I did was post the link and ask your opinion, which apparently you consider so outrageous that you don't deign to respond.
If you think this is not Islamic, how am I, a non-Muslim, to know that? There are many, many, Imams and Muslim leaders out there saying this IS Islamic.
But I see how deeply you care about this horrible injustice. No wonder this stuff goes on.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
What a crock.
Now you're accusing Nigerian Christians of being liars about their religion?
Well, that's a fascinating red herring, and maybe we should start a thread to see how Christians respond. (or did I? Can't remember.)
Well, there really is no such thing as the Christian world. Many American Evangelicals are drawing closer to Nigerian and other African denominations, as they share similar conservative values. Overall, IMO, the "Christian" world has been far too quiet about this outrageous situation in Nigeria. Children are dying, and they're worried about "religious freedom."
Well for heaven's sake, it's a debate forum!
Oh enough with the bad analogies. Tell you what, when a Gay country delegates Gay justice to a Gay council, and they decree that an adult man shall have the right to murder little boys, then your analogy will be apposite.
If the Muslim religion commits atrocities like this, then we should all be speaking out against it, and criticizing that religion. They should not be immune from criticism just because they're a religion! And I don't have a gripe with a religion, I have a gripe with injustice in the name of, and because of the power of, a religion.
These men had the right and power to sentence this poor girl because of the status their Muslim religion gives them. If not for Islam--no council of village elders administering Islamic law.
gnostic
The Lost One
I think the problem is the justice system and the people, group or organisation that interpret and implement the law. Whether the justice system uses Islamic law or not.
The court or justice system say they implement Islamic law? Are they really? I don't know.
All I know is that is what they say. And they say they are using the "Islamic" law to try the girl, not the rapist. Seem to me, they have already made up their mind that the girl was guilty for getting pregnant, and not the rapist, so I think it is more to do with horrible law they using now, regardless whether it is "Islamic" or otherwise.
The court or justice system say they implement Islamic law? Are they really? I don't know.
All I know is that is what they say. And they say they are using the "Islamic" law to try the girl, not the rapist. Seem to me, they have already made up their mind that the girl was guilty for getting pregnant, and not the rapist, so I think it is more to do with horrible law they using now, regardless whether it is "Islamic" or otherwise.
maro
muslimah
Then why do you care about my or other muslims' opinions if you have no respect for our religion ,anyway ?!!!
who are the many muslims who think different ?!! are there really many muslims who told you that we punish the raped victim and pardon the rapist ??
Umm..how would you know that this is not islamic ?!!...because it's not even rational
....i have hard time belieivng that one muslim jurisprudist would say such a thing...can you provide other sources for this news other than the telegraph ?!!!Many Many Imams ,really ?
, i would like to know those imams who think that the raped victim is the one to blamed and punished !!!! what are their names ?!!!
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maro
muslimah
Brillaint rebutal. I stand corrected.
No, I'm accusing the Nigerian clergy of being con men.
How do you think they'd respond? they would respond as if they thought they were being treated unfairly, and rightly so. And whether or not you made a thread about it is moot; I was using the title I suggested as a comparison to show how unreasonable your title for this thread is. You seem to be going way out of your way not to get that.
And as far as Christian world; the Pentocostal churches that the Nigerian churches had here-to-fore been affiliated with have (quietly but officially) disassociated themselves with them.
There's a movement within the Presbyterian community to raise awareness of this issue. That isn't much but remember I was responding this;
There may not be nearly as much outcry from Christian quarters world wide as we'd like to see, but to accuse any Christians outside of Nigeria of supporting what the Nigerian clergy is doing is an accusation that would require at least a little proof.
Again, source?
Hopefully for honest debate, not propagandizing.
No, I think it's a perfect analogy. Extreme but the point still stands, ie., it's unfair and unreasonable to present what one person or one faction of a group does as representative of the behavior of that group.
Again; you seem to be going out of your way to miss the point.
Ah, and there we have it; the Muslim religion isn't capable of committing anything.
They? Since when is a system of belief a they? Face it, Auto, you're not attacking a religion here you're attacking a religious community, and holding every member responsible for what one faction is doing.
And you're responding to it with another injustice.
Again; unless you can show me a passage from the Quaran saying that a rape victim should be whipped and her accuser go free, then they aren't getting their power from Islam, they're getting it from somewhere and something else falsely claiming to represent Islam.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Now you've roused the power of the Google.
As for this being isolated or Bangladeshi:
Police taunted then arrested British woman raped in Dubai
A British holidaymaker today told how she was arrested and taunted by police in Dubai after she told them she had been raped.
The 23-year-old was on a romantic New Years break with her faincé who proposed to her while they were away. But the holiday of a lifetime turned into the holiday from hell' after she was attacked on the night the pair celebrated their engagement.
The Muslim Londoner, who wished to remain anonymous, said when she and her wealthy 44-year-old boyfriend went to report the rape, they were thrown into jail for two days and not allowed to leave Dubai until she signed papers to say the attack had never happened.
from here.
Saudi judge sentences pregnant gang-rape victim to 100 lashes for committing adultery
A Saudi judge has ordered a woman should be jailed for a year and receive 100 lashes after she was gang-raped, it was claimed last night.
from here.
A 20-year-old woman divorcee accused of committing adultery in Somalia has been stoned to death by Islamists in front of a crowd of about 200 people.
from here.
A 16-year-old south Sudanese girl was lashed 50 times after a judge ruled her knee-length skirt was indecent, her lawyer and family said in the latest case to push Sudan's Islamic law into the spotlight.
from here.
The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab World is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic.
Associated Press- Tuesday, December 15, 2009
In countires such as Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen, Morocco and other Mediterranean and Gulf countries, rape victims, women suspected of engaging in premarital sex, and women accused of adultery are murdered by their relatives – the violation of a woman’s chastity is seen as an affront to the family’s honor.
from here.
It's an injustice to NOT marry girls aged 10, says Saudi cleric
Ten-year-old girls are ready for marriage, according to Saudi Arabia's most senior cleric.
Sheikh Abdul-Aziz Al Sheikh, the country's grand mufti, told Al Hayat newspaper that those saying ten or 12-year-old girls are too young to marry are being 'unfair' to them.
Al Sheikh's comments come at a time when Saudi human rights groups have been pushing the government to put an end to marriages involving the very young and to define a minimum age for marriage.
In the past few months, Saudi newspapers have highlighted several cases in which young girls were married off to much older men or very young boys.
Well, time runs short, but it doesn't look too isolated or Bangladeshi to me.
As for this being isolated or Bangladeshi:
Police taunted then arrested British woman raped in Dubai
A British holidaymaker today told how she was arrested and taunted by police in Dubai after she told them she had been raped.
The 23-year-old was on a romantic New Years break with her faincé who proposed to her while they were away. But the holiday of a lifetime turned into the holiday from hell' after she was attacked on the night the pair celebrated their engagement.
The Muslim Londoner, who wished to remain anonymous, said when she and her wealthy 44-year-old boyfriend went to report the rape, they were thrown into jail for two days and not allowed to leave Dubai until she signed papers to say the attack had never happened.
from here.
Saudi judge sentences pregnant gang-rape victim to 100 lashes for committing adultery
A Saudi judge has ordered a woman should be jailed for a year and receive 100 lashes after she was gang-raped, it was claimed last night.
from here.
A 20-year-old woman divorcee accused of committing adultery in Somalia has been stoned to death by Islamists in front of a crowd of about 200 people.
from here.
A 16-year-old south Sudanese girl was lashed 50 times after a judge ruled her knee-length skirt was indecent, her lawyer and family said in the latest case to push Sudan's Islamic law into the spotlight.
from here.
The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab World is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic.
Associated Press- Tuesday, December 15, 2009
In countires such as Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen, Morocco and other Mediterranean and Gulf countries, rape victims, women suspected of engaging in premarital sex, and women accused of adultery are murdered by their relatives – the violation of a woman’s chastity is seen as an affront to the family’s honor.
from here.
It's an injustice to NOT marry girls aged 10, says Saudi cleric
Ten-year-old girls are ready for marriage, according to Saudi Arabia's most senior cleric.
Sheikh Abdul-Aziz Al Sheikh, the country's grand mufti, told Al Hayat newspaper that those saying ten or 12-year-old girls are too young to marry are being 'unfair' to them.
Al Sheikh's comments come at a time when Saudi human rights groups have been pushing the government to put an end to marriages involving the very young and to define a minimum age for marriage.
In the past few months, Saudi newspapers have highlighted several cases in which young girls were married off to much older men or very young boys.
from here
Well, time runs short, but it doesn't look too isolated or Bangladeshi to me.
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It's not posting the articles that are being objected to.
The problem is that your OP title could be seen as inflammatory and offensive. In other words, it's not the information itself that's being ignored; it's the way in which it's being presented.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
double post.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
It could be taken as offensive no matter how its worded.
It could also be taken more as a jest at the justice system and not Islam itself. Obviously muslims would not take it this way though.
Simply the use of the two words: "Islamic Justice" in the title imply that this kind of thing is par for the course in Islam. If Muslims are ignoring this thread (so far, only one Muslim has more than one post here), then I can say that it was a very poor choice of words.
Thought Criminal
Member
I was tempted to ask whether we should be putting the blame on religion or conservatism. Then I realized that the only way such conservatism can survive in the modern world is to hide behind religion.
TC
Or village politics.
No one said (or at least I didn't) that it was an isolated incident. The objection is to the implication in your title that this sort of injustice is endemic to Islam as a whole.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Muslims know better than to get drawn into such debates.
What chance do they have of explaining such actions?
Thought Criminal
Member
I don't honestly know whether village politics, without the shield of religion, suffices to keep such conservatism alive today.
TC
It may not be because of that.
It could just be that they don't want to get drawn into a pointless argument.
It can be difficult to tell. Hence why I used "or." ^_^
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Let's not forget this classic: Somalian rape victim, 13, stoned to death | World news | The Guardian
And these people dare to demand respect for their religion?
And these people dare to demand respect for their religion?