Islamic Justice: girl lashed for being raped; rapist pardoned

[dust1n]

WHATEVER!!!

Do you have paremsian salt?

Love

Dallas

I have several types of salt, as well as 2 kinds of butter. I'm popping bags left and right.

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

Want some?

 

[Autodidact]

that is unnecessary to ask. i was saying that if you ask me this question and if you sincerely do not know the answer then it means i was never clear enough for you to get me. and for the last part of your question...it is never all scholars and all authorities. specially in my nation (Turkey) majority would condemn injustice like that, as majority would condemn stoning a living creature. i have never known or experienced rape victim being punished in our history. so, in my previous post i tried to tell you that if it was really all scholars agreed on such a thing, people like me would not exist. obviously there are two kinds of teachers just like Qur'an says;

28:41 And We made them Imams who call to the fire, and on the day of resurrection they shall not be assisted.

21:73 And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve;

Oh no, I didn't say "all scholars." I said, "all by Muslim scholars..." In other words, it would be done by Muslim scholars etc. I understand that by no means ALL Muslim scholars agree on that. In fact, it's probably a minority, don't you think.

In a separate matter, did you read about the horrible case in Turkey recently where male family members buried a girl alive for talking to a boy? However, I see that at least they're being prosecuted. I hope their punishment is appropriate. I read that honor killings are a problem in some parts of Turkey.

 

[.lava]

What do you call this:

Turkey puts rape victims in the dock | World news | The Observer
Intolerant Faith: Turkey: Kidnapped Rape Victim To Be Killed for Honor Crime

You know, things aren't exactly rosy in Turkey either.

she was not in prison because she was raped. she was raped in prison. you see no difference? it is not unknown by me or anyone on Earth that some policemen do this kind of stuff, they abuse their authority and they protect each other which is gross. we suffered from that kind of autorities. then again it is all another issue to punish rape victim


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[Riverwolf]

she was not in prison because she was raped. she was raped in prison. you see no difference? it is not unknown by me or anyone on Earth that some policemen do this kind of stuff, they abuse their authority and they protect each other which is gross. we suffered from that kind of autorities. then again it is all another issue to punish rape victim


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In fact, there are all kinds of reports of police-crimes happening in America, too.

No country is free from corrupted police. They get accused, and they often (though not always) go free.

 

[Autodidact]

they consider Islam as a tool to be used against us. injustice of Muslims helps their cause. but please don't get me started on this one cos i feel really tired of the subject. these stuff you may have never heard before are the same stuff we have been dealing with for decades. in here almost everyone knows what Western really do in Muslim nations. there are way too many things you don't know about your governments (not just USA, also England, France, Germany...etc) but it is useless to talk today. it is best wait for them to confess. i believe the truth about their intention and what they have been doing for years with shinny covers would come out. now everything is up side down. most of Western call black "white" and white "black"


.

If you don't want to back up your claim, you shouldn't make it. I take this as agreement that there is no such place.

 

[Autodidact]

she was not in prison because she was raped. she was raped in prison. you see no difference?

From the article:

She faces up to six years in prison for insulting Turkey's security forces and the moral integrity of her country by speaking publicly about her ordeal.

 

[Commoner]

she was not in prison because she was raped. she was raped in prison. you see no difference? it is not unknown by me or anyone on Earth that some policemen do this kind of stuff, they abuse their authority and they protect each other which is gross. we suffered from that kind of autorities. then again it is all another issue to punish rape victim


.

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. The general attitude towards rape victims in Turkey is far from kosher. Just look at the percentage of people supporting honour killings and tell me rape victims aren't being punished and that there is not a substantial amount of support for such actions.

 

[.lava]

Oh no, I didn't say "all scholars." I said, "all by Muslim scholars..." In other words, it would be done by Muslim scholars etc. I understand that by no means ALL Muslim scholars agree on that. In fact, it's probably a minority, don't you think.

you're confusing me. it is your words, you claim all Muslim scholars would judge th same. is there something i am missing in that meaning? all means "all of them". here i say, it is never all of them.

In a separate matter, did you read about the horrible case in Turkey recently where male family members buried a girl alive for talking to a boy? However, I see that at least they're being prosecuted. I hope their punishment is appropriate. I read that honor killings are a problem in some parts of Turkey.

i can say from my experiences, this is not seperate matter when it comes to Islam. it is just the second chapter on your path. this is the chapter where you and some other list all the crimes you've heard about and make it look like they are committed just because murderers were Muslims. in the next chapter you or someone else would probably start talking about murderer of thousands -young, old, Turkish, Kurdish, baby, women, men, armed and unarmed- PKK as if they were freedom fighters. who knows? maybe you start talking about killings of this or that minority. we'll see...

of course i've heard about father and his son kill 16 year old girl, Medine, that's her name. it is all over the news. poor kid.

honor killings is a big problem because it is a tribal tradition. it is practiced in the Eastern Turkey by Kurdish tribes. being born into a tribe is not a simple matter. most of tribes don't value life of female. though they show respect to old women. girls can not chose whom to marry and in case they run away from their unloved husbands or weddings, they are treaten to death. there are organization to help these run aways. any women who suffers from her husband can find shelter there. they teach women something else so she could make money on her own. that's a good thing because most of the time women can not walk away just because they depend on their husband financially. so they learn to make money and to be financially independant. this is what happens in general. but with tribes it is not that easy. because it works like vendetta. tribes would not let go. family gathers together and give duty to the youngest member in general. because if the killer was young enough, he would not spend long years in prison and so on. there is no way i can get it. i can not imagine a father or mother being OK with their child being killed by anohter relative. so rules of tribe for them is above laws of this nation as it is more important than laws of God. they are criminals and they end up prison just like father and brother of Medine


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[.lava]

If you don't want to back up your claim, you shouldn't make it. I take this as agreement that there is no such place.

well, you can't really agree with me without me, can you?

there is no such a place...what place?


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[.lava]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. The general attitude towards rape victims in Turkey is far from kosher. Just look at the percentage of people supporting honour killings and tell me rape victims aren't being punished and that there is not a substantial amount of support for such actions.

tell me the percentage of people supporting honor killings and also let me know who count them. it is a crime to kill someone and rape vicitms are not punished. this is just ridicules


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[.lava]

From the article: [/font]

and you interpret this as she was prisoned for being raped. really? she was mistreated and raped while she was arrested. i agree it is disgusting and it is something that should be corrected. but this is not same with someone being prisoned for being raped


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[Commoner]

tell me the percentage of people supporting honor killings and also let me know who count them. it is a crime to kill someone and rape vicitms are not punished. this is just ridicules

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There have been a quite a few studies done and polls taken on this issue. One such study was made by Turkey's Ministry of Education (although the focus of the study was on a related issue):

Study blames Turkish 'honour' killings on media | Stop honour killings!
Media help escalate honor killings, study reveals

"On the other hand, the study also showed that 26.2 percent of the parents and 25.9 percent of the students said they support such killings, although 64 percent of all respondents said those who committed such a crime should be punished."

Don't tell me this is all news to you.

 

[.lava]

There have been a quite a few studies done and polls taken on this issue. One such study was made by Turkey's Ministry of Education:

Study blames Turkish 'honour' killings on media | Stop honour killings!
Media help escalate honor killings, study reveals

"On the other hand, the study also showed that 26.2 percent of the parents and 25.9 percent of the students said they support such killings, although 64 percent of all respondents said those who committed such a crime should be punished."

Don't tell me this is all news to you.

friend, go take a map and check where Bartın and Diyarbakır is. these are places close to each other in Eastern area where tribes live, nearly 600 kms away from where i stand right here and now. no tribes live in Istanbul for instance. though there are people who belong to tribes of Eastern region, if the same study was done in shcools of Istanbul some kids would say they don't even know what honor killing is. but in Eartern side, where tribes live and where tribe masters oppress all the people who belong to and even depend on his tribe, of course people know about it. there are nearly 70 million people living in Turkey. i don't know population of a few eastern cities. though i can easily say that percentage does not show what 70 million think. it is a study that's done in East


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[Commoner]

friend, go take a map and check where Bartın and Diyarbakır is. these are places close to each other in Eastern area where tribes live, nearly 600 kms away from where i stand right here and now. no tribes live in Istanbul for instance. though there are people who belong to tribes of Eastern region, if the same study was done in shcools of Istanbul some kids would say they don't even know what honor killing is. but in Eartern side, where tribes live and where tribe masters oppress all the people who belong to and even depend on his tribe, of course people know about it. there are nearly 70 million people living in Turkey. i don't know population of a few eastern cities. though i can easily say that percentage does not show what 70 million think. it is a study that's done in East


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Ohhhhh, I get it, it's just in the bad parts of Turkey.

So, when you said:

"...I have never known or experienced rape victim being punished in our history"

that was just pure bs, wasn't it?

 

[.lava]

Ohhhhh, I get it, it's just in the bad parts of Turkey.

So, when you said:

"...I have never known or experienced rape victim being punished in our history"

that was just pure bs, wasn't it?

you sincerely don't understand what i am saying. have you read OP here? we are talking about an authority that punishes rape victim. we are not talking about citizens and their evil acts. yes, i have never known any rape victim being punished in my nation. because rape is a crime and the one who rapes gets punishment here


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[Riverwolf]

you sincerely don't understand what i am saying. have you read OP here? we are talking about an authority that punishes rape victim. we are not talking about citizens and their evil acts. yes, i have never known any rape victim being punished in my nation. because rape is a crime and the one who rapes gets punishment here


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I'd like to ask a respectful question.

Are those tribes part of the nation of Turkey, or are they just within the borders but not really part of the nation?

 

[Perfect Circle]

Surely this is a good example of why Sharia Law is perfect for western secularism.

I think not, isnt that why we separated religion and the state.

Give another century or two and the neolithic religious societies should hopefully evolve to join the rest of humanity. BTW that includes the US bible belt, as well as the taliban, and even Malaysia

Cheers

Ok buddy... I (even though I'm atheist/agnostic) worked at a Christian record label in the US bible belt. Half of our artists were Australian. My Boss, (a very conservative Christian) was in fact, Australian. Several of the producers were Australian, and one of the major offices was, you guessed it, in Australia. So please, until you come see the "US Bible Belt", please refrain from calling it a "neolithic religious society".

 

[Perfect Circle]

[snip]So instead of trying to make claims which makes absolutely know sense, try brushing up on your nearest elementary english book...

 

[.lava]

I'd like to ask a respectful question.

Are those tribes part of the nation of Turkey, or are they just within the borders but not really part of the nation?

they are within the borders and they are part of nation


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[DallasApple]

I think what .lava is trying to say that what these tribal members are doing in certain parts of her country are not legal.

She clearly stated that these people are punished for the acts.

Love

Dallas