'Islamists'

[sandandfoam]

I hear those who attacked the compund in Algeria this week described as 'Islamists' on the radio and in the news.

To my mind 'islamism' constitutes the antithesis of islam. What do you think?

 

[Desert Snake]

I take it this question is for anyone.

Well, I think it sounds like some sort of general term, yes, very vague and I'm not sure it's accurate beyond a minimal description.

 

[Caladan]

I hear those who attacked the compund in Algeria this week described as 'Islamists' on the radio and in the news.

To my mind 'islamism' constitutes the antithesis of islam. What do you think?

Do you mean that another term should be used? for example: 'Islamic terrorists' or 'Islamic fundamentalism'?

 

[LuisDantas]

Violence is certainly not to be accepted as part of Islam, or for that matter any other serious religion.

I don't really know what an Islamist is supposed to be, though. The words suggests some sort of connection to Islamic causes, yet at the same time it falls short of being actually Islamic. Perhaps it implies a political commitment to causes that claim Islamic inspiration or goals?

 

[Shuddhasattva]

I hear those who attacked the compund in Algeria this week described as 'Islamists' on the radio and in the news.

To my mind 'islamism' constitutes the antithesis of islam. What do you think?

It might be the antithesis of some liberal pipe dream of Islam, but it seems absolutely in line with historical Islam from the time of Mohammed and the first caliphate.

I'm not so sure that there is such a thing as non-political Islam that isn't also apostasy.

Violence is certainly not to be accepted as part of Islam

Say what?

 

[sandandfoam]

It might be the antithesis of some liberal pipe dream of Islam, but it seems absolutely in line with historical Islam from the time of Mohammed and the first caliphate.

Huh?

Ever hear of Badshah Khan?

I'm not so sure that there is such a thing as non-political Islam that isn't also apostasy.

You should be.

Say what

Islam is a religion of peace. It's clear.

 

[sandandfoam]

Do you mean that another term should be used? for example: 'Islamic terrorists' or 'Islamic fundamentalism'?

I'd be thinking more along the lines of 'criminals'

 

[sandandfoam]

Violence is certainly not to be accepted as part of Islam, or for that matter any other serious religion.

Spot on.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Huh?

Ever hear of Badshah Khan?

Yep. My father knew him. Hardly an exemplar of Islam; but rather humanity itself. If he brings credit to Islam's peace credentials, it is only by the most selective act of cherrypicking I can imagine.

Islam is a religion of peace. It's clear

...Really?

 

[sandandfoam]

Hardly an exemplar of Islam; but rather humanity itself. If he brings credit to Islam's peace credentials, it is only by the most selective act of cherrypicking I can imagine.

Cherrypicking? He was Islam personified.

He was not alone, he literally inspired an army- the Khudai Khidmatgar

 

[sandandfoam]

Really?

Really.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Cherrypicking? He was Islam personified.

Merely because he happened to be born in a Muslim culture, going against all its grains to the end of his days?

No, I think not. This is dishonesty and worse, borders on taqiyya.

 

[Willamena]

I hear those who attacked the compund in Algeria this week described as 'Islamists' on the radio and in the news.

To my mind 'islamism' constitutes the antithesis of islam. What do you think?

Historian Gwynne Dyer wrote a book a while ago, 'Future Tense', that delineates a pretty clear dividing line between Islam and the radical Islamists.

Gwynne Dyer: Dissecting the notion of Muslim fanaticism | Georgia Straight

 

[savagewind]

Violence is certainly not to be accepted as part of Islam, or for that matter any other serious religion.

Are these quotes real from the Quran or what?

Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. 4:56
For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved. 6:70
If thou couldst see how the angels receive those who disbelieve, smiting faces and their backs and (saying): Taste the punishment of burning! 8:50
Hell is before him, and he is made to drink a festering water, Which he sippeth but can hardly swallow, and death cometh unto him from every side while yet he cannot die, and before him is a harsh doom. 14:16-17
We shall assemble them on the Day of Resurrection on their faces, blind, dumb and deaf; their habitation will be hell; whenever it abateth, We increase the flame for them. That is their reward because they disbelieved Our revelations. 17:97-98
they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place! 18:29
But as for those who disbelieve, for them is fire of hell; it taketh not complete effect upon them so that they can die, nor is its torment lightened for them. Thus We punish every ingrate. And they cry for help there, (saying): Our Lord! Release us; we will do right, not (the wrong) that we used to do. ... Now taste (the flavour of your deeds), for evil-doers have no helper. 35:36-37

 

[beenie]

In the case of te Algeria situation, why not just call them "terrorists" or "kidnappers"?

Most of these types of hostage situations are political in nature anyway.

I'm no apologist for Muslims, so save your breath if you think I'm doing "taqqiya" or any other term trying to defend Muslims.

 

[beenie]

Are these quotes real from the Quran or what?

Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. 4:56
For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved. 6:70
If thou couldst see how the angels receive those who disbelieve, smiting faces and their backs and (saying): Taste the punishment of burning! 8:50
Hell is before him, and he is made to drink a festering water, Which he sippeth but can hardly swallow, and death cometh unto him from every side while yet he cannot die, and before him is a harsh doom. 14:16-17
We shall assemble them on the Day of Resurrection on their faces, blind, dumb and deaf; their habitation will be hell; whenever it abateth, We increase the flame for them. That is their reward because they disbelieved Our revelations. 17:97-98
they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place! 18:29
But as for those who disbelieve, for them is fire of hell; it taketh not complete effect upon them so that they can die, nor is its torment lightened for them. Thus We punish every ingrate. And they cry for help there, (saying): Our Lord! Release us; we will do right, not (the wrong) that we used to do. ... Now taste (the flavour of your deeds), for evil-doers have no helper. 35:36-37

Oh for god's sake, those are verses describing the punishments in hell, which I too struggle with, but it's not about violence on earth.

 

[savagewind]

Oh for god's sake, those are verses describing the punishments in hell, which I too struggle with, but it's not about violence on earth.

Who are the "we" mentioned?

 

[savagewind]

There is a HUGE difference between "there is burning fire in hell" and "we are to provide the burning fire".

 

[Willamena]

Who are the "we" mentioned?

"We" is Islam. The text clearly uses "fire" as a metaphor of guilt and shame throughout, such as in 4:10.

Quote mining doesn't help your cause.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think I have it figgered out.
There are 2 kinds of Muslims.
Good ones are called "Muslim".
Bad ones are called "Islamist".